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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Was TFU Broken Before the Sequel?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Orman Tagge, May 24, 2014.

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  1. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Is it over the top? Sure. Catching a star destroyer is bound to be. But I don't think that means it's "broken" by any means. It's decent for what it is, though I remember the novel being so obviously a video game adaptation that it was funny.
     
  2. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Yeah but that explanation doesn't make any sense, which makes it doubly worse. So one hand you've got character assassination, continuity contradictions, failed retcon, and the poisoning of an entire storytelling era and cast of characters. On the other you've got something from a dumb video game that makes no sense.

    NO CONTEST.

    Forget all that though because who cares. Just look at the idea that Palpatine was secretly training Vergere at some point for some reason and then she went on the run from him by just hanging around on Coruscant for years without telling anyone about his secret identity, and then in the two weeks she was AWOL during the NJO she found Lumiya and completed her Sith training because the weekend Vergere spent with Palpatine made her a more qualified darksider than Lumiya's 30 years of Sith Mastery. I mean just look at it.
     
  3. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011
    My God, and here i'd finally started to forget how ridiculous that Vergere nonsense was. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I think the most interesting part is why Palpatine would trust Vergere to make her a Sith "candidate," or in what way making her a Sith candidate could possibly benefit him, or even assuming that there is some benefit to be had that we're just not privy to, that it outweighs the risk that if she is feigning interest or if she otherwise decides that Palpatine can pound sand she could just tell the Jedi high council that the Supreme Chancellor is the Sith Lord (which she inexplicably doesn't do even though she wants Palpatine dead).

    It's almost as if he trained her because he knew it would be conducive to future (poor) storytelling or otherwise was required by the (poor) plot but he otherwise had no believable character motive to do so. Huh, that's quite unusual for LOTF for a character to act entirely out of character to suit the plot.
     
  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Alternatively - Lumiya is lying and Vergere was never "on the run".
     
  6. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Or she was lying about everything?

    Of course, then we'd have to discount that piece in the Essential Guide to Warfare where Vergere inexplicably rants at Tahiri her evil plan like a Bond villain before laughing maniacally. I think BobaMatt sufficiently covered her cameo in Legacy.
     
  7. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    I think you meant "Darth Vergere."

    Anyway authorial and editorial intent is clearly that Lumiya wasn't lying, non-LOTF sources have mindlessly run with that idea, and nothing in the text itself indicates or implies that her narrative shouldn't be taken at face value so we're pretty much stuck with it. Or we were. Thanks, Disney!
     
  8. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    This is what made the most sense, and seemed perfectly likely to me (Because lets be honest, Lumiya has every reason to lie about that) until other sources, such as Darth Krayt began running with the story.
     
  9. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    It makes the most sense that Lumiya was lying about Vergere being on the run from Palpatine, but that she was sincere about her being Palp's Sith "candidate" that he trains as a Sith and so long as he doesn't call her an apprentice it isn't technically breaking the Rule of Two?
     
  10. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Pfft, the Rule of Two is sooooooo a decade ago. :p
     
  11. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Don't see why peeps get bent out of shape when Sith "technically" break the Rule of Two. Even going back to Bane, the first rule of the Rule of Two is...to get a secret apprentice and technically break the Rule of Two. It's practically more of a Guideline of Two...which doesn't sound nearly as cool.

    Yoda probably meant, "Only two there are. No more, no less...kinda."

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
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  12. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Maybe he just thought that she was a chicken.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
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  13. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    That's what always bugged me the most, too.

    Vergere being a bit of a radical never worried me. Vergere having late night chats about Force philosophy over coffee caf didn't bother me.

    But Palpatine putting on his robe and wizard hat, and going "I am Darth Sidious, muwahaha!" That... was just dumb. Grooming her as a possible apprentice? Sure, I bet he groomed lots of people. But the idea he told the person he was grooming that he was grooming them... uhuh... that makes total sense... if only I'd known that all it took to gain +10 Dark Side Points and one free level in the Sith Lord Prestige Class was a cup of caf, it'd have made roleplaying sessions so much easier!!!
     
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  14. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    He told Vergere all his plans. That's why she tried to kill him.

    The whole thing is a house of cards and it is so poorly constructed that any card can be pulled out under scrutiny.
     
  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Zor -- DSPs are ridiculously easy to get. My GM gave me a dark side point for when my Jedi spat on a peasant for mouthing off to me.

    I was really upset about that.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
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  16. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    Um, no. It makes the most sense that Lumiya was lying about the entire thing. My bad for not being clear.
     
  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Krayt didn't mention Vergere fleeing from Palpatine though.
     
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  18. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    He did mention her being a Sith though, and working with Lumiya for the LOTF storyline.
     
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  19. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    True. I think White Eyes and the others (Krayt's minions) also brought it up in conversation with Alema Rar.
     
  20. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    "Hey, you, completely random low-level brand-new Jedi who's never been shown as being particularly powerful, how'd you like to be a backup potential Sith Apprentice?"

    It's a little-known fact that Xiaan Amersu, Nem Bees, Bardan Jusik, Olana Chion, Bant, Yoshi Raph-Elan, Ylenic It'kla, and Lorana Jinzler were all Sith candidates. Palpatine just really liked to cover all his bases.
     
  21. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    There really was a Jedi conspiracy that every single Jedi hid from Anakin -- they were all Sith candidates while Anakin was playing it straight.
     
  22. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    I'm sure all of this is explained more in-depth in Troy Denning's Vergere Compendium.
     
  23. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    God I'd love to see the intellectual dishonesty at work in that.
     
  24. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I'm probably going to need brain bleach after that but I'd like to see what it says.
     
  25. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    I'd love to read it. And then burn it.
     
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