Was the Empire really the darkest time for the star wars galaxy??

Yes the Empire could never measure up to the yuzhan vong when you think about it. The empirewas bad there isa no doubt. but compared to the yuzhan vong they are just some teenagers playing a prank.

 

I think it's safe to say that the Yuuzhan Vong War was a darker time than the Empire. The Empire wanted domination. The Vong wanted annihilation.

 

hmmm tough question.

The Empire was evil. Emperor Palpatine and all who followed him were murders, cold and heartless. They enslaved and murdered "alien" races and they treated women like worthless creatures. Palpatine was a destructive and cruel man who did everything to gain power so that he could make HIS galaxy a safer place for huMANs. and though the Empire was a dark time, a terrible unforgivable era, they didn't go from planet to planet murdering world after world. Destruction was not in Palpatines master plan, but he didn't hesitate to use it to satisfy his needs and his wants. He wanted to rule, and rule he did and though many of the citizens of the Empire were treated harshly, their homes destroyed and their worlds oppressed, there were also many citizens who supported and happily lived under him, approving his actions.

but the Vong, they didn't want to rule the galaxy, they didnt want power, they simply wanted to destroy. They wanted to wipe every being of this galaxy and every trace of them clean from the stars till there wasn't even a trace of their existence left. They didnt care if you were Bothan, Human, Ithorian, Rodian; all were equal in their eyes and all were unworthy infidels that were nothing more than sacrifices to their Gods. They came into the galaxy with the intent to destroy and reformat the planets and moons to their design. They wanted to kill and to take what they strongly believed was theres.

I think even war heroes like Wedge and Tycho, Wes and Hobbie would agree that the Vong invasion was the darkest time. atleast in comparison to the Empire. But that doesnt mean that i feel the atrocities and terror the Empire reigned down on the citizens of this galaxy were nothing. They were black and evil, there is no doubt.

 

I, too, agree that the Yuuzhan Vong era was the darkest (for the inhabitants of this galaxy at least; it was pretty glorious for the Yuuzhan Vong themselves--everything's relative, people!). However, I also feel that the Republic era was much darker than people believe. It certainly sounds like the Senate was far more mired in procedure and corruption than even the U.S.A.'s government is, and as such things were probably not as great as the govt. wanted people to believe. Its inability to solve the Naboo blockade is a blatant example of how ineffective it was, and that resulted in the deaths of many Gungans and human residents of the planet. Don't tell me the Republic was shining and wonderful and the Empire was evil. It had a lot of good about it, I feel more than the Republic had.

And tell me, why on earth are you trying to argue with Jello? It's easier just to agree.

 

If the Empire is to be considered evil for the deeds of some, then the republics are certainly irresponsible.

I'll agree to that.

Which isn't illegal or evil.

A fellow Palps fan are you? Nice to meet yah.

See, you seem to think that two thousand is a big number. However, given that Palpatine's majority was described as a supermajority, he had--at minimum--75% of the Senate on his side. That's a political term, you see. So at least 6000 senators disagreed.

2000 is a big number. 2000 beings are representing their home world. Do the math and you'll see just how many people are against what Palpstine is issuing. If you rightly know that 25% of your Senate is not on the same page as you, is turning them away right on the spot the best and most useful idea?

So not only are they terribly in the minority, but they're quibbling about silly things in the middle of wartime. If it was so important, they should convince others to side with them--not waste the head of government's time. In a parliamentary system that the Galactic Senate represents, it's the head of government's tasks to follow the will of the legislature. He's not an executive, it's not his job to decide things contrary to the Senate's wishes.

That's just it isn't it? These Senators aren't stupid or imcompetant in any way. They have esteemed Senators on their side that have done more than enough for the Republic. I thought it was quite obvious that if quite a few respectable Senators came into the office of the Chancellor with a petition that the situation was indeed serious. Especially during wartime. You'd think a loyal Chancellor would take it seriously wouldn't you?

 

Palpatine didnt listen to 2000. The yuuzhan vongkilled a thousand times more than that and like in the earlier posts they did pack more darkness into 5 years that the empire could have in 50.

 

There was a period in the Old Republic... called the Hundred Year Darkness... which was considered one of the darker periods for the Galaxy.. so it could be considered, though I am not sure I would consider it the worst time.

Honestly... Nazi Germany thrived under Hitler... he instituted sweeping social changes and the economy flourished under the National War Machine... And then millions of Jews later we knew how truly horrible Hitler's regime was! So your attempts to equate The Galactic Empire with a flourishing economy and prosperity to a society and it being a mini Golden Age of galactic civilization are just sad. Your argument is really disheartening, even depsite the facts and numbers you are putting forth...

 

That is a pretty good point.

 

I firmly agree (and congratulate) Jello.

Watch ESB- Vader even mentions to Luke that he should join the Empire, and go on the quest to unify and bring order to the galaxy.

I think the YV were the real villains of the galaxy. The "Empire" were effectively doing the same job as the "New Republic" if you think about it. Just with different methods.

 

the end does not justify the means.

 

Was the Empire really the darkest time for the star wars galaxy??

No. The Empire was horrible and it did last for long. Emperor and his minions had done some awful things that no doubt left deep scars in the galactic history, but there were other, even darker times. There were holocausts in the GFFA past (Tales of the Jedi, KOTOR), so Order 66 and Alderaan are nothing special compared to schock wave that destroyed many star systems. The Sith have always threatened the galaxy, so rise of the Dark Lords is also nothing new. Again, dark times have befallen the galaxy even after the fall of the Empire - the Yuuzhan Vong which, are in my opinion, the far worse than the Empire.

 

Well said, Ketch.

Dragonsith13, your Hitler analogy hits home with me and I would have to agree with your P.O.V. on this.

HwarangKnight.

 

That's a very specious comparison.

Is it? One real fact that millions were slaughtered and the Stories of a fantasy world in which millions were slaughtered... in the name of an regime. Its a specious comparison because you would rather not admit that your glorious Empire was a horrible regime that brought about a terrible reign of darkness despite economic, social, and political records/numbers that were put up.

You're also using the tried and true tack of suggesting that I'm somehow incapable of grasping some fundamentally apparent fact, and it's sad and disheartening and all that. It's cute, but it's not very good argumentation.

Don't try and put something on me just because I introduce the idea... so what if I am using as you put "tried and true tack's" I am sorry if my simple minded argument is not good enough for you! If it is so that you are so blinded by the love of the idea of the Galactic Empire that you cannot see it was not a happy time for the galaxy, then of course I am nto going to convince you that your Pedistal Empire could not have been a flourishing reign of Order and prosperity for the galaxy.

You can asimilate and be a fan of it all you want, but do not try and turn it into something it is not. And it was certainly not a happy time for the galaxy.

 

I agree, couldn't agree more in fact. Even the U.S., supposed to be so wonderful and democratic and all that jazz? Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

Were General Maximilian Veers, Lieutenant Sunber and Grand Admiral Pellaeon cold and heartless murderers? What you have posted is bias created by the Rebellion's own propaganda. There were only a few officers and not the majority who were what you discribed.

As for women. There are more women in the Empire then there were in the Rebellion. And if you believe that the Empire mistreated women so badly, than take a closer look at the last few issues of "Empire" the comic series with the undercover rebel agent Deena, who slept with an Imperial in order to take advantage of him. The Rebels send their women behind the lines and exploit their sexuality in order to get into sensitive positions or obtain information. The women in the Rebellion were far more useful in that way than they were as soldiers or logistics officers.

 

Name me any nation in history, real or in Star Wars, that hasn't used brutality and murder as a means of furthering its agenda.

And that makes it right, b/c everybody has done it?

No one has bothered refuting a single point I've made about either republic. When you argue and don't even bother to mention a point, much less refute it, it's called a concession!

It does not need to be debated... The Empire was not the best time for the Galaxy. People do die your right... But at least in certain times aside from the Reign of the Empire, the people of the galaxy did not have to worry about a Death Star blowing up their planet... And I never said the Empire was the Darkest, I just said it could in no way be considered to be anything but a black mark in history, perhaps not the blackest mark... but still nothing more than a black mark.

 

The Empire was good for the majority of the human population of the Galaxy. Aliens were made to serve as slaves, and women were not treated much better. Corruption ran as rampant through the ranks of the Empire as it did the Senate of the Republic. The only reason that the corruption was not as apparent in the governing body of the Empire was the plain and simple fact that there was only one person in charge of it: Palpatine. But even those under him showed corruption that surpassed that of the Old Republic Senators; the Moffs, the Regional Governors... how many rogue Imperials were there?
Then there's the issues of the atrocities that the Empire commited, and Palpatine approved. Alderaan, Firrerreo, Falleen, Camaas... these were not military targets. They were civilians, and if a government has no qualms about slaughtering billions of their own, then that government should be replaced. If the leader approves such actions, which Palpatine obviously did, then that leader is as corrupt as his government.
The Nazi Germany comparison is extremely accurate; the Empire benefited humans, but as you can see, most of the Rebel Alliance itself was made up of humans. So for some, it didnt bode so well; the same happened with Germans in Nazi Germany, as Jello pointed out. The Empire not only condoned, but encouraged, the wholesale slaughter of a religious sect that it viewed as a threat: the Jedi. Nazi Germany had the same attitude with Jews. Germany's economy flourished, as did the Galaxy's under the Empire. But the ends do not justify the means, no matter how elitist one considers themselves. Evil is evil, and the Empire was just that.

 

No, no death stars but they did have to worry about fleet churning war machines called the Star Forge and other such super-devices that were more fearsome and destructive than the Death Star could ever be. The Death Star could only be in one place, the Star Forge however could produce multiple Death Stars instead. Imagine that.

Thane: I want a Star Forge, Jello. Can you get me one for Xmas, pwease?

Then there's the issues of the atrocities that the Empire commited, and Palpatine approved. Alderaan, Firrerreo, Falleen, Camaas...

Alderaan: Was not approved by the Emperor, in fact he was furious that Tarkin destroyed it.

Firrerreo: Gonna have to look that one up before I reply, never heard of it.

Falleen: Either kill a thousand people or watch the whole planet die from a flesh eating disease? Which sounds better to you?

Camaas: Happened before the Empire, so its an Old Republic atrocity.

 

There were many 'good' Imperials. Pellaeon, veers, Piett to name some.

How many 'good' Vong were there? None, IIRC.

 

Who gave us the title ' Dark Times ' in regard to the Empire?

Obi Wan Kenobi. Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi.

Now, Obi Wan is going to use such a term, because all of his Jedi fellows were killed. Of course he would argue the Empire was evil.

As so often in the SW universe, it all comes down to your point of view. Good old Obi Wan.

It could be argued that the Empire was evil, but then it could be argued that the Rebels are terrorists. People always compare the Empire to the Nazis, so I will compare the Rebellion to Al-Qaeda, or another such terrorist group of modern times.

There is no question that the YV are the biggest threat to the galaxy. They destroyed indiscriminantly. The Empire brought order.

Also, it is worth pointing out that Lucas told the SW story from the Rebels PoV, rather than a balanced, unbiased PoV.

 

OK, I'll try a different route then.

You're saying that the Empire was better for the people, right?

Rather than offer the people of the galaxy newfound hope, the Empire instead became a tyrannical regime, presided over by a shadowy and detached despot steeped in the dark side of the Force. Personal liberties were crushed, and the governance of everyday affairs was pulled away from the senate, and instead given to unscrupulous regional governors. SW.com database


...and the people had a voice?

It was through fear that the Empire ruled. Its power hungry lieutenants and technocrats developed greater and greater instruments of destruction to cow a rebellious populace. SW.com database

...and people loved Palpatine?

Palpatine died at Endor, and the second Death Star was destroyed. With this crippling blow, the Imperial reign of terror over the galaxy ended. The Rebellion began forming a New Republic, and worlds across the galaxy celebrated their newfound freedom. SW.com database

That's only one source that I had time to look at and I would imagine it wouldn't be hard to find more. But the point I'm trying to make
is that Mr. Lucas clearly intended the viewer and reader to feel that the Empire and the Emperor himself were evil and/or oppressive to the "people" (common folks)of the galaxy.

I do realize, however, even this will not change your point of view as you no doubt have built up a defense against such arguments. I am interested to hear what you have to say though,as I know you will have something to enlighten us with.