Was the Phantom Menace neccessary

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Grizham1, Jun 2, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    On a Delta flight coming back from a trip out west with some friends, I happened to read one of those airline flight magazines that all the airlines have and this one had an interview in it with Lucas mainly talking about attack of the clones, but he also answered a few questions concerning the phantom menace as well. I did not read much of the article because we landed too soon for me to finish it, but anyways I probably would not have read it all to begin with was because Lucas started comparing tpm to the hobbit. He compared along the lines that no one liked to the hobbit because it was a stupid kids story but as time has gone by the hobbit has become a classic piece of children's literature, I suppose he thinks tpm is going to do the same maybe or be viewed in the same light, I don't know which.

    But this leads me to the title of the subject, was the phantom menace even a neccessary movie to make? Attack of the Clones is such a totally different movie from The Phantom Menace in its tone, targeted audience, and in relation to the original films. I don't remember what I expected out of the new starwars films, more of the old I suppose, but the new ones haven't delievered to me. The Phantom Menace more so than Attack of the Clones. I have heard before that the target audience for The Phantom Menace was 12-13 year old boys, since when does starwars have a target audience? Of course this film does hit its target audience in this case and it does not readily appeal to me, I"m a 21 year old college student and almost to a man everyone I know does not care for The Phantom Menace. Naturally on a fansite such as this one more people probably like the movie than dislike it, hence the amount of defenders of this film on this site.

    Back to the hobbit comparsion now, The Hobbit was a prequel to Lord of the Rings that alone was its own story that played very little into the overall scheme of things as the adult story of The Lord of the Rings rolled along. The hobbit is a children's story, so is The Phantom Menace, both of these stories have sprinkles of violence, deception, adult themes in general in them. The point is The Phantom Menace could (and maybe should have been) a prequel to the prequel series of movies, All The Phantom Menace did for me watching Attack of the Clones was to give a name to the characters that I was watching act. The hobbit was not required reading in order for someone to read&understand the truly great series of books that are the Lord of the Rings. I bid that The Phantom Menace is not required viewing in order for someone to watch & understand the Starwars series of movies.

    Having viewed 5 out of the 6 starwars movies The Phantom Menace does stick out as the oddball because of its kiddy natured story. I suppose a comparsion to the hobbit is apt from Lucas trying to defend his film, so dead on its scary. The hobbit is a kids book (classic of course) and The Phantom Menace is a kids movie (summer popcorn flick) other than that, besides this thread I just wrote I don't see too many comparsions that can be made, maybe more shall come to mind later.
  2. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Yes it is neccessary. Everything else in the saga rests on TPM.
  3. Darth_Tayanvo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 2
    TPM is the precursor of things to come. It hints at what will be and is necessary to explain the origin of their characters and their early lives. If it had not been people would assume that Anakin was not good as a child but TPM explains that he is a good kind-hearted boy and makes his turn to the Dark Side worse.
  4. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    "Yes it is neccessary. Everything else in the saga rests on TPM."

    Well, it's not that necessary, as people were able to enjoy the Star Wars Saga back in 1983, without the aid of The Phantom Menace, remember?
  5. netslave Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 2
    who's this anakin kid? why'd he go back to tatooine? what's his mom doing there? I don't understand how he knows this senator lady. how come there's a dark lord goin round doin stuff? who's this qui gon jin guys that obi-wan is talkin about?


    questions answered in TPM
  6. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Yeah Oaksesteve, but you couldn't enjoy it as much as you can now.
  7. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    In response to NetSlave

    I know who Anakin is from watching the original movies, if I hadn't watched those movies he would simply be a jedi in training,
    He says in the movie why he goes back to tatooine as well as his reasons for it in conversation with padme, he met senator lady b/c he was assigned to her, the forces of darkness are always prevailent in a field such as politics, qui-gon is mentioned as being his former master etc.,

    I suppose I could say questions answered in attack of the clones....
  8. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    "Yes it is neccessary. Everything else in the saga rests on TPM."

    Oakessteve answered this question rather well, but its personal preference as to enjoyment level increasing because of The Phantom Menace.
  9. Darth Pikachuwbacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2000
    star 4
    As far as target audiences go.... I think that all the Star Wars movies have always been mainly for kids. Want proof? Toys. Lots and lots of toys for each movie's release.

    Sure, adults liked the old movies as well back in the late 70s early 80s. So I guess adults now are too jaded and cynical to allow themselves to enjoy these new movies. Just a thought.
  10. netslave Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 2
    well, in TPM we see where ani comes from and the comtroversy over his becoming a jedi. it's all to give us a background to see why he ended up turning dark. we see his mother, we see how palpy even knows anakin. it's all background story to give us something to go on. with this logic of yours, the entire prequel trilogy is not needed. we all accepted the OT for what it was before.
  11. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    Sure the starwars movies have always appealed to kids, toys is a great example, but at the same time they were great movies capable of being enjoyed by adults, The Phantom Menace on the other hand well its mainly just for kids no one really outside of that.
  12. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    In a sense I guess the prequel trilogy is not really needed unless its answers some questions raised in the ot, such as how did Anakin Skywalker become Darth Vader? (Which STILL has not even been remotely answered yet after two movies)The story on Ben's life, the rise of the empire, the destruction of the jedi, the clone wars, etc., These two movies have given me more questions instead of answers, which is not exactly a good thing with only one more movie left to go, but that's just me.
  13. darthsidious32 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 4
    >>>I know who Anakin is from watching the original movies, if I hadn't watched those movies he would simply be a jedi in training,
    He says in the movie why he goes back to tatooine as well as his reasons for it in conversation with padme, he met senator lady b/c he was assigned to her, the forces of darkness are always prevailent in a field such as politics, qui-gon is mentioned as being his former master etc.<<<


    But there's not much of an emotional connection to those plot points unless you've seen TPM first. Sure, the story makes sense without TPM, but ultimately you need TPM to make an emotional connection with the audience.

    Think about how much more emotional the separation of Anakin from his mom is now that we know what happens to her in AOTC. Think about how much more emotional it is that we actually saw Qui-Gon, and now know more why he was rebellious. And without TPM, we really wouldn't know who the sith are. Remember, these movies are designed to be viewed in numerical order, and the sith are not explained in AOTC. We don't know their motives. TPM explains that - vaguely, but enough.

    I do agree that TPM is kind of like the Hobbit, in the sense that you don't need it to understand everything else. But TPM is different because it's not labeled separate from the saga, but rather the beginning of it all.
  14. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    Well its hard for to feel anything but wonder as to why Anakin would wait 10 years before returning to check on his mom whose still a slave....that's crazy if my mom was in that position she would come first and everything else second. True Qui-Gonn maybe the sole worthy plot point to come out of tpm that effects the rest of the trilogy, b/c with his death things are much different I think than they would have been otherwise. As for the sith not being explained, well that can work rather well to have mysterious villians that try to kill our heroes for no discernable purpose, after all some evil actions have no motive. As for it being the beginning of it all, maybe if it was made in 1977 I would agree, but the order of these movies makes little difference since the orignial, albiet made as the middle chapters, were still made first.
  15. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Grizham: such as how did Anakin Skywalker become Darth Vader? (Which STILL has not even been remotely answered yet after two movies)

    Yeah, luckily there's this film called Episode III coming out in a few years which may answer that question :)
    I actually agree with you that TPM was more of a prologue than Episode I. But it still served its purpose well.
  16. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    You know, so much important stuff took place at about the same time as TPM that we didn't get to see in the movie but heard about in AOTC. Like a certain Jedi leaving the order. Like a mysterious Jedi ordering a clone army. Like said mysterious Jedi "dying" in battle (against who?). It occured to me if so much important stuff can happen off screen in TPM, then pretty much the whole movie of TPM could have happened off screen and be referred to through dialogue. The only plot points that I think would really lose anything that way would be Anakin's mother and Palpatine's ascenedency to the position of Chancellorship. But, naturally, TPM, devoted a minimum of time to these plot points. Everything else, anyway, could be explained just as well though exposition in AOTC, much as Sifo-Dyas (an incredibly important plot point) also occured through exposition. That way, we'd have three Star Wars prequels where stuff actually happens as opposed to just two. Which would you prefer? Two Star Wars prequels and a prologue, or three Star Wars prequels? I know which one I would choose. I really do feel like we were cheated out of a movie here. It seems to me almost as though, when making TPM, George said, "Ah, no need to worry about any of that stuff that effect later episodes, like the clone wars, Anakiin and Obi-Wan's freindship, etc, I'll just make one Star Wars movie where nothing happens. I'll save all that stuff I have to actually think about and work at for later down the line. That's the way to do it." AOTC convinced me of this more than ever.
  17. darthsidious32 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 4
    Why would Anakin wait 10 years to go and get his mother? It's simply because becoming a Jedi means cutting off all contact with emotional relationships. That's why they take kids at such a young age, so that not too much of an emotional attachment to one's parents could occur. This is a problem for Anakin, since they did not identify him until much later than when they were supposed to. So the emotional attachment was there.

    But when Anakin sensed that his mother was in danger, he broke the Jedi Order's law and went to go rescue her.

    In the end, I do feel TPM was necessary. It's always good to SHOW how things came about, rather than explaining it in long-winded dialogue in Episode II. And we don't know that Sifo Dyas was killed right at the time TPM took place. It could've been months before, or even after. Saying something takes place 10 years before doesn't have to be down to the exact moments TPM occured. Same thing with Dooku leaving the Jedi Order.
  18. LordSortha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    The Empire Strikes Back wasn't neccessary. The Return of the Jedi wasn't neccessary. Star Wars would still be one of my favorite movies, regardless of sequels/prequels. But you know what? I'm glad I have them.
  19. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    <<In the end, I do feel TPM was necessary. It's always good to SHOW how things came about, rather than explaining it in long-winded dialogue in Episode II. And we don't know that Sifo Dyas was killed right at the time TPM took place. It could've been months before, or even after. Saying something takes place 10 years before doesn't have to be down to the exact moments TPM occured. Same thing with Dooku leaving the Jedi Order. >>

    No, but there could be hints of it dropped here and there. Maybe something as simple as Yoda wondering why Qui-Gon's unnamed Master didn't show up for his funeral (because he was becoming disenchanted with it). That simple. We don't even have to know the guy's name until Episode II.

    Besides, who says that those things COULDN't have happened during the time of TPM. No one. And since they are so close to the events of TPM, and so important, why not show them? Why not have an Episode I focusing somewhat on those things as well as opposed to all the stupid, pointless crap with Jar-Jar and Anakin's happy adventure (Did we really need to see the set decorator's son telling Anakin he's going to end up as "bug squat" [stupid expression] if he keeps racing}? What does that have to do with anything?)? Many of the stuff relating to that has no purpose and doesn't play into later episodes, If TPM were a good introduction, it would cut out that pointless crap and instead show us some of the important things like Syfo Dyas. Alas, it was not the case, probably because Lucas decided to worry about the important stuff later on down the line.
  20. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    One thing I think would have been cool is if, at the beginning of TPM, Qui-Gon had joined Obi-Wan after being away on a "mysterious mission". Then in AOTC, the cloners could have told Obi-Wan the order was made by a Jedi named Qui-Gon Jinn ten years ago. That way, we would have been left guessing until Episode III about whether Qui-Gon was secretly working for the bad guys before he died or if Sidious is just trying to screw with Obi-Wan's head.
    But maybe Lucas has something more impressive up his sleeve with this Sifo-Dyas for Episode III. We shall have to wait and see.
  21. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I agree, DH; that would've been cool. :)
  22. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    Syfo Dyas is probably Palpatine. Dooku and Qui-Gon both wouldn't make a lot of sense, because why would they make up a bogus Jedi name if they already had a Jedi name they could use?
  23. Nrf-Hrdr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2000
    star 4
    I don't think Sifo-Dyas is actually that important: it's implied in the script (the crucial line was cut, I think) that the order for the clones was made after his death, so he was probably just your everyday Jedi and Palpatine or Dooku just used his name.
  24. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Was THE PHANTOM MENACE necessary?

    There can't be an EPISODE II without an EPISODE I. ;)

    It was necessary! It works, it fits and it starts things out.
  25. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    you've convinced me skywalker, with three sentences you've changed my mind.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.