Was the Phantom Menace neccessary

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Grizham1, Jun 2, 2002.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Wow! 10 things you don't understand the reasons for. Did you want to understand? Or would it be a waste of my time?

  2. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    you must do what you feel is right of course............................................
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Grizham1: 1.) Jar-Jar, who is this stupid character? After about watching him for 5 minutes I was wondering what George was smoking when he wrote this guy, he's stupid, clumsy, ugly, annoying, and has an aptitude for ruining any scene he appears in, ex.'s the Gungan battle scene, where his antics distract me from the battle at hand, every time something happens having to hear him scream about it, and his poo/fart jokes.
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    Grizham1: 2.) Jake Lloyd; this kid can't act. Maybe George wanted a clumsy kid who didn't nail his lines or was a bit naive, I don't know, this is another choice by George that I don't understand, he seems like a good kid yet his acting abilities are poor, another kid should have been chosen to play Anakin.
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    Grizham1: 3.)Obi-Wan does two things in TPM, whine to Qui-Gon and say 'Yes master.' This guy is nothing like the old man in the OT, the Obi-Wan of AOTC is exactly how I imagined he should have been in the pt, but that deals with the title of this thread really, I don't think this movie was necessary it's a prequel to a prequel.
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  • Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    1.)Yes its a nice galaxy, a bit too nice. The technology in tpm makes the technology in the ot look dated. Everything is shiny, nice, etc., given I suppose that's your point that its supposed to be nice and whatnot, but the thing is everything is too nice, at least I think.

    "Too" nice? I'm not sure what that means. And it was my point that it was supposed to be nice. But I also made the point that despite the surface shininess and prettiness, things were corrupt underneath. I think the Journal of the Whills describes the Republic as a great tree, rotting on the inside.

    2.)If Anakin works for you as a kid then that's fine, I just prefer adults I suppose, and if their had been another actor besides lloyd playing anakin I probably wouldn't have a problem with the role being played by a child.

    Comes down to a difference of opinion.

    3.) I disagree here, all Obi-Wan seems to have to do in this movie is nood his head and say, "yes master." Given he's still rather young, I never understood why he needed to be a jedi in training, and couldn't be out on his own like in aotc,

    Because Lucas wanted to show him as a Padawan. He wanted to show him undergo a dramatic loss, when his master dies.

    which I love him in b/c of his freedom to kick-ass so to speak. As for nearly being killed himself, I was hardly worried when he was fighting maul, since I know he was going to live,

    Of course you did. He's in the next five movies.

    4.) Qui-Gonn Jinn, mixed feelings here, he seems to be the only character other than Maul/Palpy that has any depth written into his character in this movie. Some of his lines are a bit corny, but its starwars so no problem. I don't understand why he takes jar-jar along, neither does Obi-Wan, no one likes the stupid creature, but he's ok I suppose.

    He actually tries to get rid of Jar Jar at first, but then when Jar Jar mentions his underwater city, Qui Gon needs Jar Jar to show them where it is. Jar Jar tags along after that, and Qui Gon's too busy with all his other stuff to really notice.

    7.) The scene was ok, until Anakin asked her if she was an angel....... then I remembered I was watching Jake Lloyd attempt to act ughhhhhh. Also the age difference is very apparent here which was kind of odd.

    How so?

    8.) I loathe Jar-Jar, so if you see something btwn him and Padme, I can't really fathom what it is, their interactions? I think that's just her nature to try and be nice, and she's like that with everyone, not just Jar-Jar

    No, she specifically smiles at him when no one else will. Like when Jar Jar is juggling with the droid-things in the junk shop. Anakin looks at him with disgust, but Padme smiles at him. She's the only one who's nice to him. Everyone else treats him like the pest he is. And Padme isn't friendly with everyone. She's quite haughty with Qui Gon, and is pretty icy with everyone except Anakin and Jar Jar.

    9.)The lightsaber duels/music were easily the highlights of the movie, both excellent. As for editing, I think it was subpar at best, watching to documentary on the dvd and seeing george digitially change an actor's performance was a bit disturbing to say the least,

    He did not digitally change the actor's performance. He digitally altered the frame in one scene. I don't know where you got the idea that he "digitally changed an actor's performance," or even what that means.

    and the scene where anakin and qui gonn are running in the desert for no reason at all is bad editing period.

    Uh...I wasn't talking about the editing overall, I was talking about the editing in the lightsaber duel. But whatever. I admit that that running scene doesn't make much sense unless you see the cut scene which comes before it: Qui Gon cutting down the probe droid. That is the only cut scene that I think should've been left in. The rest were wisely deleted.

    10.) The funeral scene was nice, I just wished I cared about the characters more to enjoy the scene, the movie didn't really do that for me, that is
  • Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Jeez, are bashers still whining about midichlorians? Even after they've been explained, about a zillion times? And are they still whining about the Nemoidians' "Chinese/Asian accents"? That says a lot more about their prejudices than about Lucas's.
  • Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    I don't 'hate' tpm, I dislike, it has some redeeming qualities, pod race, maul, saber duels, I find it lacking in writing/acting department. So if that's hatred, I suppose I'll hold onto it.
  • Empress Palpatine Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1999
    star 1
    Dang. I was about to post a long reply to Grizham1's latest post, but Go-Mer-Tonic and Shelley beat me to it!

    Great job, guys! :)
  • Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I hear you Shelly, but just as the original trilogy wasn't adored by all, the same will happen with the prequels. It's unfortunate, but to the people who have these hangups, it is all to real I think.

    And I don't see you as being evil or hatefull Grizham1, I just want to show you how I see these things, so that perhaps you might find new things to appreciate.

    In the end, I feel for you, because I know you know what you are missing out on, unlike the people who never got into any of this. But I know that you aren't setting out to sbatoge you own enjoyment, it is just how you see it.
  • SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    I like things that come in threes...


    >>>1.) Jar-Jar, who is this stupid character? After about watching him for 5 minutes I was wondering what George was smoking when he wrote this guy, he's stupid, clumsy, ugly, annoying, and has an aptitude for ruining any scene he appears in, ex.'s the gugan battle scene, where his antics distract me from the battle at hand, everytime something happens having to hear him scream about it, and his poo/fart jokes.

    So, because Jar Jar narrates what's going on in a way that no character ever has done in any film (except for C3P0 throughout the original trilogy), he shouldn't be there? Because he's ugly, he shouldn't be in the same saga as Jabba the Hutt? Because he's annoying, he shouldn't be in the same saga as C3P0 and Mark Hamill?

    Isn't it strange how nobody complains about R2D2 stepping in poo (because they like him?) but they do about Jar Jar (because they don't)...

    >>>2.) Jake Lloyd; this kid can't act. Maybe George wanted a clumsy kid who didn't nail his lines or was a bit naive, I don't know, this is another choice by George that I don't understand, he seems like a good kid yet his acting abililties are poor, another kid should have been choosen to play Anakin.

    Like who? The other kids in the DVD audition were even worse! (And please don't say the creepy kid...)

    >>>3.)Obi-Wan does two things in tpm, whine to Qui-Gonn and say 'Yes master.' This guy is nothing like the old man in the ot, the Obi-Wan of aotc is exactly how I imagined he should have been in the pt, but that deals with the title of this thread really, I don't think this movie was neccessary it's a prequel to a prequel

    Yes, he does. Compare and contrast to Anakin, who is the same age in AOTC. That's the point. This is what Obi Wan was like when he was a student- he was a good apprentice.

    >>>4.) The british accents are different b/c they're aren't fake!

    How about the British actors dubbed over with American accents? Does that bother you?

    >>>The neimodians had dubbed chinese accents, they spoke with british accents when the scenes were being filmed, this is an example of not racist stereotyping at work, but really an example of bad taste. The aliens should have spoken a different language like jabba did or left the british accents in I think. Also the imperials were all humans and modeled after the british navy it seems, I get the symbolism there, so where's the symbolism here? That Asians are all greedy traders? God I hope not

    British Navy? I thought they were nazis with English accents (not British...) because Americans associate English accents with baddies, and the same with nazis. And probably also because English accents are cool, and whatever your views on their politics, the nazis had cool uniforms.

    Maybe Lucas thinks Transylvanian accents are cool, and wanted a Dracula analogy to be drawn?

    >>>>5.) Every scene with Jar-Jar is an example of bad acting/dialogue, most scenes with Anakin including him leaving his mother, talking to padme for the first time, yelling yippee, destroying the droid control ship by accident. Padme comes off as completey unemotional (an ice queen really) and rather detached from reality in most of her scenes. Obi-Wan has little to act on, Qui-Gonn is ok, Maul has too few lines to make a big impact, Palpy is fine, The Neimodians are cardboard villians that wouldn't scare a toddler, and nearly everything else is computer generated.

    All true. But 70% of the OT is bad acting and bad dialogue.

    I'd disagree about Padme, but I think it's true of Amidala.

    If Maul had more lines, he wouldn't be as cool.

    What's wrong with computer generated?

    >>>>6.) Midocholrians- I suppose Gl decided that the force needed to be demystified, BAD MOVE. The force as kind of invisible yet all knowing/helping/etc., was wonderful, adding this quasi-evolutionistic style element to the mix didn't help the force's case at all. I remember reading on this board some people telling me that I would understand eventually in the nex
  • ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    I can list the bad things, it is easier.

    1) Ungrateful, selfish fans.

    I think that about covers it.


    Funny how you can get away with that while TJ got banned for lesser things.
  • Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "So, because Jar Jar narrates what's going on in a way that no character ever has done in any film..."

    I can think of several. Fifth Element's Ruby Rod. Hunchback of Notre Dame's Clopin. Merry Wives of Windsor's John Falstaff. Evita's Che. Even Spawn's Clown.

    Oh, hey, don't forget Outlaw's Watney, Temple of Doom's Willie,Willow's brownies--I could go on.

    Thematically, structurally, Jar Jar is nothing new.

    And when did any wookie jump around like a monkey or change his hatred of humans in one second to love?

    Oh, one more thing: Do we need to see Obi-Wan as a good apprentice--and have him spend an entire film otherwise wasted--to figure out that Anakin is a bad one?
  • SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Elfstar,

    >>>Funny how you can get away with that while TJ got banned for lesser things.

    The difference is that TJ directed his comments (well, let's be fair- insults) directly at people. Go-Mer's comments like the one you quoted are directed at groups.

    If you think Go Mer is talking about you, then you are saying that you're ungrateful and selfish, aren't you? Why would you say that?

    I will pray for you.

    8-}




    Darth Geist,

    >>>And when did any wookie jump around like a monkey or change his hatred of humans in one second to love?

    You're saying that wookies aren't at all monkey-like? And Chewie didn't attack some humans and hug others?

    >>>>Oh, one more thing: Do we need to see Obi-Wan as a good apprentice--and have him spend an entire film otherwise wasted--to figure out that Anakin is a bad one?

    We need to see what a "normal" apprentice is like, otherwise Anakin appears to be a "normal" apprentice when he questions his mater without apologising, goes off on cheeky little solo missions, or does anyhting other than follow his masters footsteps saying little other than "yes sir, no sir". We need a centering device.
  • Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Wookiees may look like monkeys, but I never saw a Wookiee leap forty feet in the air. I also don't remember this scene:

    CHEWBACCA
    Rawwwr! (I hate humans!)

    LEIA
    I ask you to help us. No, I beg you to help us.

    CHEWBACCA
    Rawwwr! (I love humans!)

    ;)

    As for the apprentice issue, we could easily perceive Anakin's misbehavior from Obi's reaction to him. Obi could complain to his superiors--and hey, when he visits Yoda and the younglings, and sees their obedience, he could react accordingly. Simple, effective, and it doesn't require Obi to sit around doing nothing for an entire film.
  • Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    You could discern Anakin's devience from Obi-Wan, but personally I don't see the problem with the rich and deep elaboration on the Jedi order that having examples of the straight arrow provides.

    If you personally don't want to watch TPM ever again, then so be it. I am just trying to explain why it is needed.
  • ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    The difference is that TJ directed his comments (well, let's be fair- insults) directly at people. Go-Mer's comments like the one you quoted are directed at groups.

    The only differance between Gomer and TJ is that Gomer is more devious in his insults. He directs his insults at people without actually stating it out loud.

    If you think Go Mer is talking about you, then you are saying that you're ungrateful and selfish, aren't you? Why would you say that?

    Which is exactly why his insults are so devious. No one will admit to being what he hates, so he's allowed to get away with it. It's a catch-22.

    Let me put it this way: If I went into the AotC forum and said "People who blindly love AotC are a bunch of freaking idiots", would I get away with it? Would I be right to say it?

    I will pray for you.

    Thanks. :p
  • Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I would hope you would get away with it. If I had my way, nobody would ever get banned.

    Honestly though, you shoot yourself in the foot by calling them "idiots". If you said...

    "I don't agree with people who blindly accept anything George Lucas puts out."

    Then I would think that it would be fine, as you aren't saying anyone in particular does that, and people like me would only point out that we happened to dislike the Ewok movies, and differentiate ourselves from the people you don't like.
  • ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    What's wrong with the Ewok movies Gomer?
  • Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Nothing, they have the Star Wars logo on them somewhere right?

    That's all I need to be entertained... ;)
  • hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    In return, I dropped the idea that Vader was not going to be shown to be Anakin clearly until ESB.

    You changed your mind on something that you were predicting but was obviously not going your way. But have you changed your mind on any aspect of TPM due to a response from any of the members here? No. You are stuck in your ways and as such, continue to replay the same things you have stated over and over again 2 years ago. The page on this thread is evidence. Do you have the comments stored somewhere so you don't have to re-type everything?

    In regards to your other question. I changed my mind on the overuse of CGI in the PT. My opinion of it was too severe in parts as when I watched AOTC, I was in awe over some of the effects which were almost as good as real. I have also commented on how much I enjoyed seeing the battledroid's being sliced up in such a realistic fashion. On the negative, I initially liked Anakin having no father but after some discussions I realised how lame it was. I could go on but I am trying to prove myself to a fan hater who has nothing better to do than bait people with veiled insults. Everyone here noticed it this time Go-Mer. Well done!
  • Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I love you guys. I just have a problem with the selfish, ungrateful fans.
  • hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    So if it isn't anyone here, why do you bring it up? Who are these fans you speak of then?
  • Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    "Who are these fans you speak of then?"

    Dahveed72.
  • Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I am sure there are some SW fans who are selfish and ungrateful. They just don't want to admit it publicly. Well, at least not in such a direct way.
  • ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    LOL

    Go-Mer is entertained by logos! That nike "swoosh" must get ya all tingly I bet!

    :p
  • hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    I dislike cowardly, rude, arrogant, ignorant fans myself.
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