Was the Phantom Menace neccessary

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Grizham1, Jun 2, 2002.

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  1. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
  2. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    From that list, I would say the first two were the least necessary. Anakin's need of being a child was absolutely not necessary, I am of the thinking that he should have been at least sixteen years old. The only thing Lucas was going for in making him as young as he did, so it appears to me, was for cheap and sappy sentimentalism. That was about it. "Awww look, the cute little kid is saying goodbye to his mommy. No wonder he became so evil." Other than that, Anakin was a handicap rather than a fully functioning character in the story.

    I think making him 16 years old, it doesn't have the same impact when he leaves his mother. You have to understand that one of his failures is the greed of which he has with his emotional attachments to those he loves and cares for and how he can't accept the loss of them.
    It works better as a PT plot point with him being 9 years old. Being 16, the whole thing wouldn't make sense and it would be unbelievable. And don't give me we could start from AOTC, it wouldn't work and it would make zero sense.

    Just as Obi-wan's being a padawan, it was completely unnecessary. This is the story of Anakin's training, not Obi-wan's. Seeing him as a young man was not a necessary part of the story, it detracted from the character because, just as Anakin and the others that were starkly different from Episode to Episode, he needed to be reintroduced with AOTC and redeveloped as what he did and what he was in TPM didn't ultimately matter in AOTC and on. So yes, TPM was entirely unnecessary, at least to me. It was a waste of time as it only "introduced" the characters and had them doing things that don't really have any relevance to the other five chapters.

    The whole point of having Obi-Wan as a Padawan in TPM, is for a parallel with Anakin.
    And thats what the 1st chapter of ANY story does! It introduces characters! They aren't completely fleshed out at the beginning it happens over a period of, for example the PT, 3 movies where we get to learn more about the character.
    Seems you need a lesson in storytelling and logic.
  3. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    ANAKIN HAD TO BE A KID IN TPM. SW is about growing up. Specifically, the PT is about the path from childhood to adolescence. In TPM, Anakin is a child who is attached to his mother, just like in any good child-mother relationship. It wouldnt work if he was 16, because then he would have already hit puberty!!! He wouldn't be attached to his mother because he would be interested in other women!! In TPM, Padme is a mythological mother that is on a pedastal that Anakin cannot reach because he is still attached to his mother.

    In AOTC, Anakin is not conciously attached to his mother, but he keeps having dreams about her. "I dont know why I keep dreaming about her. I'd much rather dream about Padme." On Naboo, after Anakin is rejected by his symbolic mother, he has a dream sequence about his literal mother. THe dream sequence represents puberty, sexual realization, and discovering women for the first time. I like to think that its not an accident that a lot of people thought Anakin was doing something "naughty" under those covers. He then goes to Naboo only to find his mother die in his arms. He has to let go of his mother, something that every man must do. As long as Shmi was alive, Anakin and Padme could not be together. Now that Shmi is dead, Anakin is now free to be with Padme or any other woman, because to some extent a man's wife is thought to be a replacement for his mother which was the 1st woman in his life. This represents an emotional struggle that all men deal with subconciously everyday of their life. The relationship that you use to have with your mother when you were a child is dead, and it can never be brought back. You might have heard about very old men who are senile and losing their mind, and how they might cry for thier mothers. This explains it.
  4. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    And another reason for Qigon's character is that he represents Anakin's good father, while Obiwan represents his bad father.
  5. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    I think making him 16 years old, it doesn't have the same impact when he leaves his mother.


    I brought this up some time ago back at the 3SA; something as traumatic as leaving behind one's mother on a rogue planet as a slave with with a slave owner that just lost everything would have a profound impact on anyone, even a sixteen year old.

    You have to understand that one of his failures is the greed of which he has with his emotional attachments to those he loves and cares for and how he can't accept the loss of them.


    That isn't age specific, he developed emotional attachments for Padme as soon as he looked at her. Many teenagers do it all the time, it doesn't have to be rooted to their early childhood. Those are the more tumultuous years of life, so it would be expected that Anakin be clingy and temperamental.

    It works better as a PT plot point with him being 9 years old. Being 16, the whole thing wouldn't make sense and it would be unbelievable.


    How so? I saw Anakin's age as a handicap to the third act. He couldn't take up a gun and fight alongside and participate in the adventure. And he was too young to show any convincing competence in the cockpit of a starfighter, resulting in an "Oops" when he launches the proton torpedos. Tell me, how is that better than having the competence to actually fly and participate in battle without saying "Okay, let's try spinning. That's a good trick?"


    And don't give me we could start from AOTC, it wouldn't work and it would make zero sense.


    As it was, no, of course not. But had Lucas started the story there, it would have been MUCH better. That's when the story really takes off since not only are the characters being reintroduced in the roles they'll have for the rest of the saga, but they're actually DOING SOMETHING. You are introduced to a better villain in Dooku, we see him doing things IN THE LAST HALF HOUR OF THE FILM. He was completely wasted since we had a useless character in Maul that didn't speak and didn't do anything other than kill an unnecessary character and die himself. He's never mentioned again. Then you have Dooku, he's introduced late in AOTC (since most of the film was spent reintroducing the main set of characters, as they were completely diffent from Episode I), and then the next time we meet him, he's gonna probably die. So there's one potentially awesome villain that was completely wasted as a third of the trilogy was thrown away for no apparent reason.

    The whole point of having Obi-Wan as a Padawan in TPM, is for a parallel with Anakin.


    I thought the parallel to Anakin was Luke. The difference being Anakin gives in to the feelings to the Dark Side. Obi-wan is just the master, he doesn't play into the equation in that manner. Besides, we don't see enough of Obi-wan as a Padawan to know what a Padawan is supposed to be like. The example of the Jedi is supposedly the master, so we already have that in Qui-gon (which should have been Obi-wan), thus making the role of yet another Padawan unnecessary. Especially for a character that is going to be vital in the upcoming five episodes.

    And thats what the 1st chapter of ANY story does! It introduces characters!


    In a manner that makes them useful for the upcoming chapters, not to where they have to be reintroduced later on as completely different people.

    They aren't completely fleshed out at the beginning it happens over a period of, for example the PT, 3 movies where we get to learn more about the character.


    There in lies the problem, you're putting far too much faith into Episode III to repair the blunders of the first. Each film should be a self-contained unit, if each isn't "fleshed out," that makes it a weak link, and we all know what they say about chains with weak links.

    Seems you need a lesson in s
  6. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    ANAKIN HAD TO BE A KID IN TPM. SW is about growing up. Specifically, the PT is about the path from childhood to adolescence.


    That point came across with the Classic Trilogy and we didn't have to see Luke's childhood to understand that, since most of the significant events happened relatively late in life (late teens). Those are the conscious decisions needed in telling a story, it may hurt, but it's something that has to be done, cutting a part that one may like for the sake of the entire story.

    In TPM, Anakin is a child who is attached to his mother, just like in any good child-mother relationship. It wouldnt work if he was 16, because then he would have already hit puberty!!! He wouldn't be attached to his mother because he would be interested in other women!!


    No one touched on this at the 3SA, but his going off to the Bright Center of the Universe while his mother stays behind as a slave on a dangerous planet with a desperate owner is NOT the same as a suburbian kid going off to camp for the summer. Any child would fear for his mother, no matter what age. Unless they're spoiled rotten, a child will care for their mother under the extreme circumstances, such as the ones we saw in TPM. Just because he would have been sixteen doesn't mean he would say, "Hey, sorry mom. It's been fun, but you're cramping my style. I gots ta get out, know what I'm saying. Anyway, I'm taking off. Sorry you gotta stay behind as a slave and all. Tough luck for you. Well, it's been fun. Take care of yourself, kid." Like that is going to be the case. Please.

    In TPM, Padme is a mythological mother that is on a pedastal that Anakin cannot reach because he is still attached to his mother.


    Yeah, yeah, and in AOTC she's the female seductress that causes the downfall of the mythological hero. Anyway.

    In AOTC, Anakin is not conciously attached to his mother, but he keeps having dreams about her. "I dont know why I keep dreaming about her. I'd much rather dream about Padme."


    If its a non-conscious effort, then it would be possible for him to have those visions as a sixteen or seventeen year old since he left her behind and still doesn't know how she is. They could be explained as the Force amplifying the worry that he has.

    On Naboo, after Anakin is rejected by his symbolic mother, he has a dream sequence about his literal mother. THe dream sequence represents puberty, sexual realization, and discovering women for the first time. I like to think that its not an accident that a lot of people thought Anakin was doing something "naughty" under those covers.


    The Jedi try to discourage that by saying it'll make you go blind. :p


    He then goes to Naboo only to find his mother die in his arms. He has to let go of his mother, something that every man must do. As long as Shmi was alive, Anakin and Padme could not be together.


    He was actively pursuing her well before Shmi passed away. Their romance had nothing to do with Shmi, it was Padme's letting go of her inhibitions that allowed them to be together, not Shmi's death.

    Now that Shmi is dead, Anakin is now free to be with Padme or any other woman, because to some extent a man's wife is thought to be a replacement for his mother which was the 1st woman in his life. This represents an emotional struggle that all men deal with subconciously everyday of their life.


    I agree, excellent point.

    But were that the case here, Anakin would not be "free" to pursue Padme, were he "restricted" by his mother. He had no anamosity against her, so he would probably idolize her and hold Shmi up to a higher standard as she can no longer disappoint him. If Anakin were restricted before, he would be even more restricted after Shmi's death as Padme's pedestal would be no where as near as his dead mother's.

    And another reason for Qigon's
  7. Ophion Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2003
    he could have been 16 in tpm, they could have just killed off shmi in tpm as they did in attackk of the clones, instead of him saying goodbye like he did
  8. darth-Kirk Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2003
    I like the phantom menace just the way it is. what is wrong with it?
  9. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    I brought this up some time ago back at the 3SA; something as traumatic as leaving behind one's mother on a rogue planet as a slave with with a slave owner that just lost everything would have a profound impact on anyone, even a sixteen year old.

    That maybe so, but when you're sixteen its easier to let go of things and move on in life. At 9, that isn't as easy.

    That isn't age specific, he developed emotional attachments for Padme as soon as he looked at her. Many teenagers do it all the time, it doesn't have to be rooted to their early childhood. Those are the more tumultuous years of life, so it would be expected that Anakin be clingy and temperamental.

    I was only being age specific towards the mother attachment with my comment. And his attachment with Padme started when he was 9 years old.

    How so? I saw Anakin's age as a handicap to the third act. He couldn't take up a gun and fight alongside and participate in the adventure. And he was too young to show any convincing competence in the cockpit of a starfighter, resulting in an "Oops" when he launches the proton torpedos. Tell me, how is that better than having the competence to actually fly and participate in battle without saying "Okay, let's try spinning. That's a good trick?"

    Well actually it works out quite well IMHO> Anakin in EP3 will be the same age as Luke in ROTJ. So I don't think Anakin's age is a handicape, it sets up a perfect parallel between father and son IMHO.
    Oh and BTW I never had a problem with Anakin flying the starfighter, if he can pilot a podracer , he can fly a starfighter.

    As it was, no, of course not. But had Lucas started the story there, it would have been MUCH better. That's when the story really takes off since not only are the characters being reintroduced in the roles they'll have for the rest of the saga, but they're actually DOING SOMETHING. You are introduced to a better villain in Dooku, we see him doing things IN THE LAST HALF HOUR OF THE FILM. He was completely wasted since we had a useless character in Maul that didn't speak and didn't do anything other than kill an unnecessary character and die himself. He's never mentioned again. Then you have Dooku, he's introduced late in AOTC (since most of the film was spent reintroducing the main set of characters, as they were completely diffent from Episode I), and then the next time we meet him, he's gonna probably die. So there's one potentially awesome villain that was completely wasted as a third of the trilogy was thrown away for no apparent reason.

    This is where your idea of the prequels gets in the way of the actual story Lucas wanted to tell.
    And Dooku isn't wasted, have you forgotten he is also in EP3?

    I thought the parallel to Anakin was Luke. The difference being Anakin gives in to the feelings to the Dark Side. Obi-wan is just the master, he doesn't play into the equation in that manner. Besides, we don't see enough of Obi-wan as a Padawan to know what a Padawan is supposed to be like. The example of the Jedi is supposedly the master, so we already have that in Qui-gon (which should have been Obi-wan), thus making the role of yet another Padawan unnecessary. Especially for a character that is going to be vital in the upcoming five episodes.

    I should have expanded.
    Obi-Wan being a Padawan is a parallel to Anakin being a Padawan. Its shown to let you see the differences between Padawans brought from birth by the Order and a Padawan like Anaki who is brought into the Order at a later age.

    In a manner that makes them useful for the upcoming chapters, not to where they have to be reintroduced later on as completely different people.

    In your opinion ;)
    And I don't believe Obi-Wan, Anakin or Padme are completely different people.
    Obi-Wan is still the straight arrow Jedi Knight. He still is loyal to the Council and does everything by the book.
    Anakin, yes he has for the most part changed but 10 years will do that to a young person, yet he still has some of the 9 year old left in him. His discussion of
  10. TheAnointedOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 2
    "I'm an atheist so the bible is just bad fiction to me (I do not mean to offend Christians out there with this comment, its just my personal preference. My apologies if you take it as offensive.)"

    "Bad fiction"? Apology accepted. But to praise a group of rotten movies written by someone who admits that he is a poor writer and call the best selling book in world history "bad fiction" doesn't make you look too bright. Not to mention that you are an admitted atheist which is the most unreasonable theological view there is. Unlike an agnostic who admits that they don't know if God exists, an atheist claims to have combed every inch of the universe to know for a fact that God doesn't exist. That being the case, one could argue that you would have to actually be God to know that God doesn't exist.

    If I were you, I would humble myself and change my theological views... and show some respect.
  11. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    If I were you, I would humble myself and change my theological views... and show some respect.

    [face_plain] Ok so my comment was in bad taste, my sincere apologies.

    But at least I have an opinion on whether "God" exists.
    I don't believe there is a God and nor should I.
    Anyway maybe we should continue this discussion in the Senate or you can PM me and we can discuss this.

    But to praise a group of rotten movies written by someone who admits that he is a poor writer and call the best selling book in world history "bad fiction" doesn't make you look too bright.

    You're calling Star Wars rotten? ?[face_plain] Hmmm......
    And just because it maybe the best selling book in history doesn't mean its any good. Anyway maybe we should continue this as I said above.

    Note: This is just my opinion anyway, I do respect those that believe in God, many of my friends and family are christian. I just happen to think differently.
  12. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    That maybe so, but when you're sixteen its easier to let go of things and move on in life. At 9, that isn't as easy.


    It may be easier under normal circumstances, but by showing Anakin going through the same, it would show that it hasn't been easy for him at all. And if anything, it would accentuate the struggle with the Force, as they amplify his feelings and his worries.

    I was only being age specific towards the mother attachment with my comment. And his attachment with Padme started when he was 9 years old.


    Which matured when he was 20, which is the part of the romance that matters since it's closer to the time when most of the events the Saga needs to revolve around will occur.

    Well actually it works out quite well IMHO> Anakin in EP3 will be the same age as Luke in ROTJ. So I don't think Anakin's age is a handicape, it sets up a perfect parallel between father and son IMHO.


    I should have been clearer, my bad. :p By the "third act," I meant the third act of TPM where the climax, confrontation, and resolution happen. In the third act, Anakin wasn't a character as he was a prop. He was told to hide, and acted in response to the will of others. That may be what Lucas would have wanted, but it's also weak writing and weak characterization. Characters that are too responsive aren't assertive and thus aren't strong. Some audiences tend not to favor or care for characters that show no will their own.

    Oh and BTW I never had a problem with Anakin flying the starfighter, if he can pilot a podracer , he can fly a starfighter.


    I didn't buy either. :p

    This is where your idea of the prequels gets in the way of the actual story Lucas wanted to tell.


    The problem is, as an audience member and movie-goer, I'm the one Lucas is telling the story to. I'm the one sitting there and taking the story in from the screen, and as of far, this has been my interpretation of the story Lucas is trying to tell.

    And Dooku isn't wasted, have you forgotten he is also in EP3?


    I'm saying he's wasted because he will be in Episode III, or rather because he NOT in Episode I, less than half of Episode II, and probably dies at the end of the first act of Episode III. Which is roughly half an hour, thus giving him about an hour and fifteen minutes of screen time out of an almost seven hour trilogy. Not good for the most visible villain of a saga.

    I should have expanded.
    Obi-Wan being a Padawan is a parallel to Anakin being a Padawan. Its shown to let you see the differences between Padawans brought from birth by the Order and a Padawan like Anaki who is brought into the Order at a later age.


    Originally, Qui-gon Jinn was to be the Padawan and Obi-wan the master. Had Lucas followed that, we still would have seen a "proper Padawan" to compare Anakin to.

    In your opinion
    And I don't believe Obi-Wan, Anakin or Padme are completely different people.
    Obi-Wan is still the straight arrow Jedi Knight. He still is loyal to the Council and does everything by the book.


    Then why was there such a need to reintroduce them?

    Anakin, yes he has for the most part changed but 10 years will do that to a young person, yet he still has some of the 9 year old left in him.


    Had he been older in TPM, that transition would not have been necessary at all as there would not have been that big gaping hole of time in the character's life that needed explaining.

    At least I have faith. And don't say there are blunders when its not fact there are any.


    Purely theoretically, of course. But I would venture to say that they may be blunders that EIII will not be able to mend, but we'll see in 2005. :p

    You're really talking story here, and so far they are fleshed out a
  13. TheAnointedOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 2
    "You're calling Star Wars rotten?"

    Only the PT.

    Anyway, for whatever it's worth, I don't think TPM was necessary because nothing except the introduction of the main characters carried over into the next movie and even that was a waste because they had to get reintroduced at the beginning of the next movie. After ten years, they had become different people, especially Anakin who is the main focus of the PT. Unless they show us in ep. 3 why it was so important to see Anakin as a child in TPM, then it will go down as a wasted and unnecessary movie.
  14. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    loco_for_lucas:

    Basically we aren't getting anywhere, so I'll just leave it, it was nice discussing things with you but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree (unless you disagree with that :p ).
  15. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    >>>In the third act, Anakin wasn't a character as he was a prop. He was told to hide, and acted in response to the will of others. That may be what Lucas would have wanted, but it's also weak writing and weak characterization. Characters that are too responsive aren't assertive and thus aren't strong. Some audiences tend not to favor or care for characters that show no will their own.

    Well, I thought the whole point of Anakin in TPM was that he was the kid who was unknowingly guided by the Force, and that by training him in the Jedi Arts (ie. training him to know about and be able to exert his own will onto the Force), that was going to be lost.

    When Anakin does start to become strong, assertive and show a will of his own will be his transformation into Darth Vader- to show that, you have to show the character before the change began, which is what TPM does. Which is why it is necessary.

    Yes, it does give a weak bit of story, but in the film that also has the effect of having the audience (well, me at least) on the edge of their seat throughout it, because they are gagging to see more lightsabers...
  16. stewart-18 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2003
    star 1
    I don't think the film was necessary. Ep2 should've been Ep1. That would make it all fit better with the OT.

    By the way Ben talks about Lukes father in ANH, you'd think he was around the same age, or about 5 yrs younger. Not 16 yrs as we are getting in the PT.

    You screwed up George.

    And even Obi seems too young in these PT films. Compared to the timeline and Sir Alec in the OT.


    I also don't see so far this so called great piloting from Anakin, (that pod race, and accidental blowing up of the ship with R2 help does not cut it) or the great "friendship" between them. That elavator scene at the begining of Ep2 does not cut it either. If Ep2 was the first PT film with mostly Anakin/Kenobi that would show the friendship. The inclusion of Qui-gon (through a good character thanks to Liam N.) messed it up. The Ep1 story should've focused on Anakin/Kenobi not Qui-gon/Kenobi.



    As you see, I see alot of problems with the films.



    Anyone got a problem with that?






    Peace to you all.
  17. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    >>>>>>>THat point came acrosss with the classic trilogy and we didnt have to see Luke's childhood to understand that, since most of the significant events happened late in life.(late teens)<<<<<<<<<

    Well, the OT is more about the path from adolescence to adulthood.

    >>>>>>>Going off to the bright center of the universe while his mother stays behind as a slave on a dangerous planet with a desperate owner is not the same as a suburban kid going off to camp for the summer. Any child would fear for his mother, no matter what age.<<<<<<<<<<

    Dont get me wrong. At age 16 he would still fear for her and he would still be sad and hate to leave her behind. But trust me. As a man who was very attached to his mother as a child, I can tell you that it just doesnt have the same emotional impact at the age of 16. As a child, your mother is really the only important woman in your life, possibly the most important person in your life. You still love her at age 16 or older, but you no longer have that same emotional need for her. Once you hit puberty, that emotional attachment to your mother starts to conciously fade.

    >>>>>Yeah yeah, and in AOTC she is the female seductress that causes the downfall of the mythological hero. Anyway.<<<<<<<<<<

    ok.

    >>>>>>If its a non-concious effort, then it would be possible for him to have those visions as a 16 or 17 year old since he left her behind and still doesnt know how she is. They could be explained as the Force amplifying the worry that he has.<<<<<<<<

    True, but mythologically that would accomplish far less. It is far more interesting and far more emotional to have him conciously fear for her in episode 1, and then to subconciously fear for her in episode 2. His dreams about his mother in episode 2 represent the subconcioius emotional struggle that all men go through everyday of their lives. The way that Lucas does it is a much more thourough study into psycology.

    >>>>>The Jedi try to discourage that by saying it will make you go blind.<<<<<<<<<<<

    [face_laugh]

    >>>>>He was actively pursuing her well before Shmi passed away. THeir romance had nothing to do with Shmi, it was Padme's letting go of her emotions that allowed them to be together, not Shmi's death.<<<<<<<<<

    Well, I'm talking about mythological terms. ON the surface of the story, yes, it was more of Padme letting go of her inhibitions. But do you think its just a coincidence that Anakin went to his literal mother right after he was rejected by Padme, and then Padme confessed her love for Anakin pretty shortly after his mother's death?

    >>>>>If Anakin were restricted before, he would be even more restricted after Shmi's death as Padme's pedastal would be no where near his dead mother's pedastal.<<<<<<

    You are exactly right about Padme's pedastal not being as high as his dead mother's pedastal. Hence, the tusken slaughter. BUt since Padme is the highest pedastal left, he takes that one, since his mother's pedastal is no longer there. (This is why I hope Padme's death is not the cause of Anakin turning to the darkside in episode 3. It would be much more interesting if he and Padme start to have political and ideological disagreements about the fate of the republic. bECAUSE OF that, Anakin will feel betrayed by Padme. The meadow picnic could be seen as a forshadowing of that, when they are talkking about politics.)

    >>>>>Good father or bad father, it wouldnt matter. THe father is always the source of hostility, as there is always a need to strike him down. So Quigon is unnecessary as Obiwan is the father.<<<<<<<

    Well, in the OT, Obiwan was the good father while Vader was the bad father. I just think it would make sense for the PT to have Quigon as the good father and Obiwan as the bad father. The good father (Quigon and old Obiwan) knows when to step aside and let the hero be his own man. Each dies in episodes 1 and 4. The bad father(young Obiwan and Vader) holds the hero back and prevents him from being his own man. THe bad father castrated the hero in episode 5, and he will castrate the hero in epis
  18. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    "I also don't see so far this so called great piloting from Anakin, [...] or the great "friendship" between them.

    Yeah, and i don't see Han winning teh falcon off Lando either.

    Damn you Lucas! Give us the prequels we wrote ourselves!
  19. TheAnointedOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 2
    All I really wanted was for Lucas to give us the prequels that he created as a backstory for the OT. Is that too much to ask for?
  20. TheAnointedOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 2
    "That elavator scene at the begining of Ep2 does not cut it either."

    True! Was it me, or did they (especially Anakin) come across as not really liking each other in the elevator?
  21. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    Back again..... :p

    All I really wanted was for Lucas to give us the prequels that he created as a backstory for the OT. Is that too much to ask for?

    And thats what he has done, you don't like it? Too bad. I like it and and will for as long as I live :)
  22. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Well, the OT is more about the path from adolescence to adulthood.


    Since the monumental events of the Saga happen in late adolescence and adulthood, the events of childhood are of no consequence and have no real significance, we don't really need to see them.

    Dont get me wrong. At age 16 he would still fear for her and he would still be sad and hate to leave her behind. But trust me. As a man who was very attached to his mother as a child, I can tell you that it just doesnt have the same emotional impact at the age of 16.


    Was she left behind as a slave? That is the extreme circumstance that makes this situation unique. She was left with a slave owner that lost everything. If your mother were one of the last pieces of property left to a desperate owner who would probably need some quick cash, would you still be as anxious to leave?

    As a child, your mother is really the only important woman in your life, possibly the most important person in your life. You still love her at age 16 or older, but you no longer have that same emotional need for her. Once you hit puberty, that emotional attachment to your mother starts to conciously fade.


    To the mythological hero, the mother is still a principal figure in his life; regardless the age. And with myth being the universal storytelling vehicle, it would still be feasible as emotion is invested in that person and the hero is of good nature, so it would be okay for him to care for his mother.

    True, but mythologically that would accomplish far less. It is far more interesting and far more emotional to have him conciously fear for her in episode 1, and then to subconciously fear for her in episode 2. His dreams about his mother in episode 2 represent the subconcioius emotional struggle that all men go through everyday of their lives. The way that Lucas does it is a much more thourough study into psycology.


    And I agree, and that is all non-age specific.

    Well, I'm talking about mythological terms. ON the surface of the story, yes, it was more of Padme letting go of her inhibitions. But do you think its just a coincidence that Anakin went to his literal mother right after he was rejected by Padme, and then Padme confessed her love for Anakin pretty shortly after his mother's death?


    Mythologically, yes, I agree.

    You are exactly right about Padme's pedastal not being as high as his dead mother's pedastal. Hence, the tusken slaughter. BUt since Padme is the highest pedastal left, he takes that one, since his mother's pedastal is no longer there. (This is why I hope Padme's death is not the cause of Anakin turning to the darkside in episode 3. It would be much more interesting if he and Padme start to have political and ideological disagreements about the fate of the republic. bECAUSE OF that, Anakin will feel betrayed by Padme. The meadow picnic could be seen as a forshadowing of that, when they are talkking about politics.)


    Hmm, interesting perspective. I dunno, for me, I'm kinda hoping that there is a mythological sort of twist with Padme and Anakin. Maybe where Palpatine uses his powers to conjure an image of Padme for Anakin and tries to literally seduce him to the Dark Side. Maybe he could have Anakin destroy that image of Padme (not the real Padme, but an image of her) and have him spiral deeper into the Dark Side. Where Anakin "destroys" his wife in a tragic fit of rage, like a tricked mythological hero gone insane.

    Well, in the OT, Obiwan was the good father while Vader was the bad father. I just think it would make sense for the PT to have Quigon as the good father and Obiwan as the bad father. The good father (Quigon and old Obiwan) knows when to step aside and let the hero be his own man. Each dies in episodes 1 and 4. The bad father(young Obiwan and Vader) holds the hero back and prevents him from being his own man. THe bad father
  23. stewart-18 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2003
    star 1
    "All I really wanted was for Lucas to give us the prequels that he created as a backstory for the OT. Is that too much to ask for?"


    I guess it is too much Anointed one. See the problem with Lucas is that he is writing/making this up as he goes along between films. That's why there are so many inconsistancies from the OT so far.

    And from what I here it is starting to catch up with him. He has still not finished the script. I won't be surprised if Ep3 is a big failure storywise, through that won't matter to the fanatics that kiss his feet here.

    And you are so out of it jKburtola. It's funny seeing fans like you that let the eye-candy distract you from the real truth..

    That there is no character development, good direction, and too much reliance on CGI. Too bad for you, you won't let yourself see that just cause it's Star Wars.


    Peace.



  24. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    Just got through watching TPM. Still as great as ever. THe backlash against the prequels would be disheartening if it wasnt so rediculous and funny.
  25. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Where do you think this "backlash" is coming from? The media? Is it some vast conspiracy against Lucas? If the movies were as "great" as they are claimed to be, why is this "backlash" existent? It wasn't present before the SE.
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