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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Was the "reputation "of the Prequels doomed from the start ?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by fastcooljosh, May 2, 2017.

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  1. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Star Wars fans need to take a lesson from the Jedi (or Joseph Campbell) and stop grasping. Let go. Enjoy what you enjoy, and stop attacking everyone for not enjoying the same things.
     
    Mostly Handless likes this.
  2. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 20, 2015
    Who is Mark Ellis and why should anyone care about what he has to say about a subject he clearly understands nothing of. You know someone is wrong when they start with "I always thought" or "I always saw it this way". He's basically admitting right away that he's no authority on the subject, and has no actual knowledge of it.
     
  3. TheDutchman

    TheDutchman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2015
    This I hear a lot....it doesn't bother me too much. He made a horrible decision in the heat of the moment, maiming/assisting murder of a Jedi Master and knew that there was no way he was getting out of it. (Think about if someone murdered someone in a fit of passion or rage, then realizes what he had done was wrong, but he has the power and influence to cover it up or get away with it.....think that has ever really happened in real life? I'd say almost certainly) Also, as we see later, he is already planning to overthrow and take charge himself which is another layer of his "getting away with it" mindset.

    However, I can understand why people can see this all happening so fast and not buying it.

    What I can't understand then......is that VADER's turn back from the dark side in ROTJ, gets none of that same criticism. (and I think we all know why). He was an cold calculating monster for 2.5 films, and all the sudden.....BABYFACE TURN and the crowd goes wild. Hulkamania is running wild again.

    How is that really any different?
     
  4. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016

    Because he loves star wars apparently and you can bet he probably isn't the only one in fandom to see it that way.
     
  5. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 7, 2016

    Whats interesting and maybe i am missing something so feel free to correct me but in ROTJ one of the things that often puzzled me is how turning to the dark side worked because the idea that film gave is that if Luke killed Vader then he would have turned to the dark side? automatically?

    The emperor kept mocking him to kill Vader and join him which Luke had to fight the urge to not give in as if one mistake would instantly turn him.

    I always assumed from that alone that being emotionally compromised would allow the dark side to take over.
     
  6. TheDutchman

    TheDutchman Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 10, 2015
    interesting point.
     
  7. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    I always took it as meaning that, no matter how good your intentions, the seduction of false empowerment from indulging in one's negative but passionate emotions to overcome one's enemy guarantees ones destiny being dominated by this emotions. And in those conditions, ones intentions become skewed and distorted into justifying all sorts of iniquities. Meaning you become that which you set out to overcome. Like what happened with Vader (allegedly).
     
    DarthCricketer likes this.
  8. trikadekaphile

    trikadekaphile Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 6, 2015
    So why do you state your opinions as though they were proven facts?

    And I don't. Since you seem to think that having other people agree with you carries weight, I know I am far from the only one who considers her a Mary Sue.

    And from what I've read, the nostalgia is a heavy factor: "It was so great to see the old gang back again! Han was great! They went back to the 'old style' of filmmaking and effects!"

    Anakin is a slave boy who was saved from the life by a Jedi master who buys him. Hardly the same as Luke, who flees Tatooine after his foster parents are murdered by the Empire. If you think that TPM is a remake of ANH because of the "foundling on a desert world" theme, then TFA is even more of a remake of ANH -- they simply changed Tatooine to Jakku.

    And the marketing for this movie provided all kinds of cynical, false propaganda about how this was a return to the old school, playing on people's supposed hatred of the prequels. It was not a "separate" thing in the slightest. It was done by the people who made the movie, for the movie.

    The marketing campaign was not poorly thought out. It was very specifically and precisely thought out. And who said anything about it ruining the movie? Please stop deflecting the conversation.

    Really? Or was that simply another thing that the press claimed, by way of elevating JJ Abrams, et al to sainthood and giving them credit for breaking ground that they didn't break? From what I could tell, women by and large didn't really care one way or another, though the ones that did practically made front page news. Female SW viewers aren't new to strong female characters in the movies, despite the propaganda that Rey broke ground and "made SW safe for girls to like."

    Please stop deflecting the conversation.

    Um, yeah.

    *grits teeth* And once again, I don't CARE if a supposed "majority" thinks TFA is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don't CARE if it's "hard" to find others that agree with me. I have found plenty of others who didn't really think TFA was that great, that it was a blatant remake of ANH, that Rey, while likable because of the actress who played her, was a Mary Sue.

    And I literally cannot see your viewpoint that TPM was a remake of ANH and that TFA works better than the prequels. And since the "people agreeing with you" claim seems to matter so much to you, I'm not the only one who thinks that.

    Nor do I find your case that TFA works better than the prequels on an artistic level very convincing. And since the "people agreeing with you" claim seems to matter so much to you, I'm not the only one who thinks that.
     
    DementedMeerkat and TheDutchman like this.
  9. DementedMeerkat

    DementedMeerkat Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2015

    *sigh*
    After watching their shows for three years before quitting, I can safely say Mark Ellis and the other 'critics' at Collider do not love Star Wars. They love the OT and anything that goes with the mainstream opinions from when they started their careers, and the opinions of their peers so they can keep their jobs and stay 'relevant'. These are the people the whole subtext anti-PT campaign of TFA was targeting, so they could spout praise about the ST to their viewers (which are a very small minority), before the damn thing had even come out. And I fell for it. I've said it a few times and I'll say it again, these kinds of people have not got a clue about everyone's opinions, and are the weird 'fanboy' side of the fandom. They can say they care about other people's thoughts all they want, and "it's cool that people have their own opinions", "movies are subjective" blah blah blah... but they have made themselves clear several times that they laugh at/pity people who enjoy the PT. They are the people that doomed themselves to hating these films, and now thinking the PT doesn't have a good reputation, so this is the only thread they should be used as examples. Other than that, they are not people to be drawing arguments from, as they are inherently biased and quite frankly... intellectually flawed.
     
  10. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    What on Earth does this thread have to do with TFA!?
     
    Martoto77 and DarthCricketer like this.
  11. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    The premise of this thread irked me from the start, and it really has devolved into bashing and/or unrelated discussion. For now, I'm closing up.
     
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