Was TPM impossible before 97?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Katana_Geldar, Jan 9, 2005.

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  1. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    I got the non-fan question the other day why SW was made 'backwards' and i explained to him that SW was first made to be a stand-alone movie and the technology wasn't around then...or was it?

    Before you flame me think about what ILM did in ROTJ, Battle of Endor which i don't thinbk has been changed since (correct me if i'm wrong), the speeder bike chase.

    only i think jar jar would have been a puppet like the rancor and we all know how that went down.

    Could it have been done with models instead of CGI? And could it have been better?

    I wonder...
  2. Spoiler_Beast Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2005
  3. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    TPM was possible in 1977. It just would have had to use stop-motion (for many of the droids and some aliens) and matte-paintings instead of CGI. That and GL would have needed more than the budget he had for ANH (ANH ran on a rather small budget for a major motion picture).
  4. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Plus Coruscant as executed would have been bleeding impossible. The only time the level of ships gets that heavy in the OT is during the ROTJ space battle battle, which is cut up into pieces.
  5. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    This makes me very thankful for CGI, even though it is widely abused and misused among the film community today.
  6. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Well, these are after all the blooming days of CG. Some filmmakers are bound to go nuts and use it whenever they can, because it's new. In time, people will learn how to use it wisely and then it'll calm down(I believe).

    The golden age of CG! Is it now, or will it come?



    Star Wars is one
    /LM
  7. starwarsagent Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    the gungan battle would have not been posibble. the gungans including jar jar move their muscles on their face to much. if this was done with a robotic rubber mask it would have looked really dumb. like those nemodians. they can barely move their mouths.
  8. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Both the gungan battle and Corsucant section would have been possible. There were plenty of movies and shows that used older effects for such things. You wouldn't have gotten the CGI look, but the movie/story could have been told.
  9. Tyranus_the_Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    I agree with Darth-Stryphe, here. It was possible to tell the story prior to 1997, just in a manner that would no doubt be quite different from what was eventually realized on the screen (for better or worse, I guess). Whether that would have resulted in a better film is of course arguable and difficult to say, but it certainly would have looked different - technically inferior, I suppose, at least by today's standards, but since many people rail against Lucas' unscrupulous use of CGI, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing (to them). I actually quite like the look of the picture - the clarity of its visuals far exceeds that of its sequel, "Attack of the Clones", perhaps due to the fact that "Clones" was mostly shot digitally with Panavision 24p cameras, whereas "Phantom" was shot almost entirely on film stock. Semantics to some, I suppose, but it is useful to be cognizant of such things particularly when questionable CGI can draw attention to itself, removing the viewer from his/her immersion in the story (see "Van Helsing" for a prime example of suspect rotoscoping).
  10. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    It's amazing how well Blade Runner still holds up, but Coruscant would have to have been very "watered down", with not NEARLY as many moving ships and buildings. I think the main problems would have been the podrace (it could have been pulled off, but it would have been steady-cam like the chase in ROTJ, with not nearly as many shots and angles) and the amount of battle droids used (they would all have to be like C-3PO, capable of holding an actual human in them). Also, the Naboo battle could have been done with tons of extras in outfits, but I dont think the tanks could have intermingled with the characters so much, not to mention the two-legged animals the Gungans rode. Underwater stuff could have been done, lightsaber battle could have been done, space battle too.
  11. black_saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Duel of Fates may have also been the problem too.

    You know guys the TPM came out two years after the Specail edtions of the OT where realsed in theaters.
  12. Lightsabre Fan Force Founder

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    Nov 12, 1999
    star 4
    Lucas would have relied more on story than effects, as he did in the OT.
  13. mojorising Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2005
    star 1
    So, why a Sanskirt translation of a Celtic Poem called "The Battle of the Trees"?

    It is, I believe a very interesting theatrical choice.

    So is it true that if I kill you, I become you?

    Yes, it is.

    Strilo edit: Ummm what? Let's keep things on topic shall we?
  14. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Both the gungan battle and Corsucant section would have been possible. There were plenty of movies and shows that used older effects for such things. You wouldn't have gotten the CGI look, but the movie/story could have been told.


    Models. If they were able to do a battle station the size of a moon, a ship flying through a city skyline would have been no problem. The only difference would have been in design, where they'd have more of a Star Wars look and feel. So that would have been a definite plus.
  15. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Except it isn't one ship. Comparing the DS1/2 surface to Coruscant is pretty inaccurate-we never really see anything actually going on on the surface of either death star, particularly compared to the NYC of ship traffic that we see in TPM & AOTC.
  16. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    I'm a scale modeller on the side, and you'd be surprised what can be done with well-painted models. The models used for the production were, for the most part, huge five foot pieces making them roughly 1/20 scale. That's for close up shots, so for backgrounds, they could have used tiny models of 1/72 scale, roughly four inches or less, and with depth perception, the illusion is created. It's the same principle used in CG models, smaller sized models for something that's farther from the camera. Same concept, different medium. Granted it would be on a different scale, but it would not have been impossible. There's always a solution, it's just a matter of being creative enough to find it.
  17. rohandove Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2004
    star 2
    Sure. It wouldn't look like it does though. I would think Coruscant would have been done with paintings, and any of the battles with minitures & models.

    Probably no Gungans, unless they stuck them in suits.

    And of course, Ewan wouldn't have been cast as Obi-Wan *g*

  18. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Now, if we're saying "would it have been possible to make TPM before 1997 and have it be the same", I would say probably as early as 1995, but before that, no, it would have had to depend more on older style effects. But it would have been doable. Frankly, I think Blade Runner (which was brought up as an example) looks great.
  19. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Yeah, 94-95ish would have been possible, and it still would have looked good. That was around the time of Jurassic Park, so that shows where technology was at the time.
  20. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    That was around the time of Jurassic Park

    Which, coincidentally, is a movie George worked on and the results of which that inspired/convinced him that it was 'time' for the prequels to be made.
  21. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
  22. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    George didn't exactly work on Jurassic Park, but the effects did influence him.
  23. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    George oversaw all of the post production on Jurassic Park so his good friend Steven Spielberg could head to Poland to film Schindler's List.

  24. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Yes yes, to Strilo you listen
  25. DS615 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2003
    star 4
    TPM was possible in '77, but would it have worked?

    If Episode I was made first, would there have been any more at all?

    Is Episode I good enough to stand completely alone? No background, no books, no games, no dedicated fans, no 90% of the population with a passing familiarity of Star Wars, no toys, no nothing. Just The Phantom Menace. Would it work? Possibly, but would it be good enough to spawn five sequels?

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