PT Was Yoda smart in sending Obi Wan to Mustafar?

theMaestro, there is actually some music during the Maul/Qui-Gon section off the duel, a light version of Maul's theme.

First 48 seconds of this track:

 

Ah, you're right. In my head, when I said "no music", I was referring to the part from 0:27 - 0:48. It's very quiet in the movie and not too noticeable amidst the louder sound mix for the sabers. But you're right, it is there. Because it's so quiet and subtle, it doesn't really give away what's about to happen. If we contrast that with the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan duel, the "Battle of the Heroes" theme seems to reach its climax just as Anakin jumps towards Obi-Wan to get cut. Whereas with the Qui-Gon vs. Maul segment, the subtle chanting music has a sort of "poker face" that creates unease but doesn't give away its hand, thus allowing the blow to Qui-Gon to be appropriately sudden and dramatic.

 

None of this excuses 3 Jedi Masters acting like drunk & disoriented buffoons while getting cut down. Particularly the second two. Would be willing to grant one surprise kill.
Also I've never thought Dex was disparagingly calling the Jedi who work in the archives "droids". I thought he was referring to the actual droids & computer systems that are used.

EDIT: Just saw Heels' message. Never mind, move along.

 

He wasn't -- not directly. But the thing is, with the deleted scene of Obi-Wan in the Jedi Archives, it's clear he goes to the Archives, gets nowhere, then in the same scene, hits on the idea of going to see Dex. In short, Obi-Wan had already gone to the literal Jedi Archives before the Dex scene, so when Dex quips Kamino should be easy enough to find for "those droids in your archives", there's an implicit dig at all the people who work in that area of the Jedi Temple. And in the very next scene, we see Obi-Wan at the library, pondering on the absence of Kamino in the vast Jedi database. When Jocasta Nu arrives and snaps him out of his trance, we see her behaving much like a droid, flatly asserting, "If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist." So Dex's quip is borne out in the very next scene. I suppose it depends how literally you take his remark. As with everything in these movies.

Yep.

 

No, he's talking about the droids in the archives (the analysis droids that Obi-Wan said he resorted to), not Jedi or other people. Their conversation continues with the discussion of droids, their inability to think and the difference between knowledge (that a droid can have) and wisdom (that a droid can't have).

It had nothing to do with people or other sentient beings.

 

IRONY, WHERE IS THY STING?

 

"I wonder why it didn't show up in the analysis archives."

"It's these funny little cuts on the side that give it away. Those analysis droids only focus on symbols. Huh! I should think that you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and wisdom."

"Well, if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there?"

"Kamino. I'm not familiar with it. Is it in the Republic?"

"No, no. It's beyond the Outer Rim. I'd say about, uh, 12 parsecs outside the Rishi Maze. Should be easy to find, even for those droids in your archives."

No, don't see any irony on Dexter's dialogue. He's just taking a jab at the Temple's analysis droids apparent incompetence.

 

My point was that you were flatly dismissing anything to the contrary of a hyper-literal reading of the dialogue.

Therefore showing an obsession with "knowledge" (that you say "a droid can have") over wisdom (that you say "a droid can't have").

Acting droid-like. Just like Jocasta Nu does when she scoffs, "If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist."

Thereby affirming the idea that the Jedi Archives are populated by analysis droids whatever their outward constitution. If it acts like a droid and dismisses things like a droid...

 

Where did I do that?

There are things that can be (and are) open to interpretation, and there are others that simply aren't (such as this case). If a character says X and explicitly states what he's referring to Y, to say that a character means Z is simply not true. Both characters and respective dialogue are referring to droids (not just any droid, but some specific droids that we were fortunate enough to see in a deleted scene). It's not some hidden message from Dex that a Jedi or some other character is behaving like a droid (whatever that means).

When have I discarded wisdom?

You could argue that she was being arrogant, but I don't see any droid-like behaviour. Besides, she would be correct had not one of their own secretly deleted information.

If you had made a map of a specific location to the tiniest detail and years later I had deleted some street without you knowing, wouldn't you say the same thing Jocasta said to Obi-Wan has someone came looking for street XYZ and didn't find it? After all, you were there, documented everything and supposedly nobody could have deleted it.

 

Ugh.

You're just unbearable.

 

Oh..?

I had you in higher consideration Cryo. Didn't know you found someone unbearable over a different opinion on movies we both love.

 

Sorry. I'm a human, not a droid, and I find that you dismissing more symbolic, allegorical, and metaphorical interpretations -- as a fellow prequel fan -- is a bit puzzling.

I'm also being worn down with all the arguments and prequel-bashing here of late.

Everyone's got a limit. Might need some time off.

 

I think both the allegory and the literal interpretation should be valued. Just as I have come to certain conclusions, what if both of the arguments being on a "high ground" of confliction, are somewhat right?

I'm not trying to imply that the argument should stop, because I do not mind conflicts within the communities. I for one, see a middle ground in all this. But of course, I'm but an old man staring into the endless binary Suns waiting for Lucas to come back....

Do continue

 

DP...

When the forum got like this, I took a month or two off here. I do agree, lately it's just the typical prequel arguments over and over, going into a black hole that never stops. Tiring isn't it? And people complain that TFA is being bashed all the time

 

I agree with MIDI. I don't like seeing two prequel fans fighting. Both Cryo and Alexrd are both great posters with different views but still both love the PT. Now while Cryo's unbearable comment was inappropriate, I don't think it was too personal. I must say I too would be irritated in his position if I had to constantly defend the PT from minute issues or perceived issues with their perpetual cyclone of circlejerking hatred these films seem to get. Though, Cryo is pretty damn good at defending them, I'd say.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic. I just don't like two prequel fans in a dispute.

 

Thank you for the cool-headed, steady defence, @{Quantum/MIDI} and Deliveranze.

Things do get a bit wearying here. And sometimes, I think I'm a bit ratty -- though I shouldn't really be -- just to shake things up.

I dunno. Just to be constantly met with resistance of one kind or another, and to be told I'm reading too much into things, after all these years...

Anyway, thanks again, guys.

 

Of course Cryo. Completely understandable. There's a lot of back and forth disagreements, though mostly civil, yet it's usually between pro PT and anti PT posters. I can understand there are times where someone is gonna get tired of the bickering and, not to mention, we have posters who say they like the PT and yet constantly moan how bad they are. (Obviously doesn't apply to Alexrd). Someone like you who is usually up against 4 or 5 other posters is gonna be obviously a bit irritated.

 

Thanks again! That's it. It does get fatiguing sifting through all the nonsense.

Should have listened to heels1785.

 

"It is only natural. They bashed your art, you wanted to defend"

 

Well something this minor shouldn't create annoyance. Dexter was referring to the analysis droids that Obi-Wan had just mentioned. He wasn't there to witness Jocasta's so called robotic manner. It's really that simple. However, if fans want to interpret scenes or dialogue in a different way, that's fine too.
IMO if you want to look at this dialogue in a broader more thematic way, a better analogy may be the imminent inclusion of human soldiers that will fight & replace the droid armies. Here Dex is having a dig at droids compared to people, then shortly later Lama Su is saying something quite similar to Obi-Wan.

 

Perhaps we define "draw" differently. When I say draw, I mean a mutual defeat, with both combatants perishing, as they did in the illusion. As a Jedi Master, I'm sure Yoda would be willing to sacrifice his own life if it meant the end of Darth Sidious. He makes that very choice in Sacrifice. If Yoda can end the Sith that day, then the Jedi can rise again, over time, without the shadow of the Dark Side to cloud their vision.

 

I don't think they had much choice. Two jedi against two sith. I think they were trying to wipe them out quickly, though it probably would have been more effective for them to team up on one sith at a time.

 

As awesome as I think Obi-wan is, he wouldn't have stood a chance against Darth Sidious.