Watch the finale of ANH and tell me AOTC is in the same league

Durwood interprets criticism of AOTC as a personal insult against him.

 

I wasn't talking to you, hawk. I used the word "one" in my little "theory".

 

Why don't we all start the "why are you posting here" argument all over again??? I'd love it! Or we could stop the personaly attacks and discuss the FILM. SWfan2002, is that possible for you? Durwood has demonstrated that he can't do this but I'd like for you to stay if you have something to add to the conversation. If you want to discuss the fanbase or the posters here then it is off topic and belongs in Communications. Let's not have this thread go off on another tangent. Ok?

 

What about people who like ANH, ESB, ROTJ, and TPM, but not AOTC, is our opinion invalid?

This is forum for reaction and discussion, my reaction was negative, isn't that a valid reaction.

 

lets calm down people and get this thread back on track.

 

Amen

 

AOTC had a great ending, imho. The action moved from one battle to another in a linear fashion, instead of multiple intercuts like TPM and ROTJ. I don't think intercutting is bad, quite the contrary, but AOTC provided the SW Hexology with a little change so not all the endings are the same. We got to see a land battle, an air bombing raid, an ancient Roman gladiatoresque execution, and of course a few great lightsaber duels. The linear style allowed for greater depth in each of these action scenes, but still kept the story moving.

ANH's ending is great too, but it was more a "bite your nails" kind of thing, especially when the Death Star was about to blow up Yavin if Luke missed the thermal exhaust port. However, GL needs to stay away from repeating that in the PT or ANH won't be so special when it is viewed after one has previously watched Ep's 1,2,& 3. GL needs to go in other directions that are just as exciting, but don't take away from the uniqueness of what he's already done in Ep's 4,5, and 6. I think he succeeded in doing so with AOTC's ending.

 

I think AOTC could still have all that AND be more exciting. I think that we see a lot but I personally could not feel anything. The lightsaber duel is one big missed opportunity.

 

Yeah, I agree. What is the actual climax? What is the pay off? What did it all amount to? No matter what the heros do, palpatine wins, so whether the heros live or die is enitely irrelevant, the heros have no meaning in the story.

Why is yoda the big hero at the end?

I mean compare to ESB, for all the people who like the AOTC yoda battle, would you have liked if after Luke got his hand chopped off Yoda showed up and fought Vader? Becuase to me thats how the Yoda fight feels.

 

Who's taking bets that this is the next thread that will get the chop ?

 

Every thread should be closed.

 

Durwood interprets criticism of AOTC as a personal insult against him.

I do?

 

search your feelings Durwood. you know it to be true.

 

I think AOTC could still have all that AND be more exciting.

I don't know what movie you saw, but I found it very exciting. In fact, for me, the ending was the deal closer that made an already very good movie great.

I think that we see a lot but I personally could not feel anything.

During the big battle scenes, no, but this is probably by design because it was a big impersonal war. However, whenever Lucas concentrated on the heroes, he made sure to allow the audience to make a human connection (Anakin and Padme's love confession, Obi-Wan checking the pulse of a fallen comrade, Dooku's offer and Mace's ultimatum, Obi-Wan and Anakin's argument on the shuttle, to name a few examples). It was a huge impersonal battle juxtaposed with meaningful personal drama. For me it struck just the right balance.

The lightsaber duel is one big missed opportunity.

A missed opportunity? It was short, I agree, but it was very dark and brutal, much different from the acrobatics and tight choreography we've seen in the other movies (obviously excluding A New Hope's geriatric duel) . This is the first saber battle where it really felt like the participants were out to kill each other as quickly as possible. Dooku wasn't messing around, he wasn't toying with his opponents, he was trying to kill them in the most effecient manner possible. A longer drawn out fight would have eliminated this intensity.

 

I just read the first page and a half, and I was reminded why I stopped coming to this message board.

AOTC had an ok climax.
ANH has the best climax of any film.

Hard to live up to ANH's climax. The three heroes fighting the beasts was great, then the Jedi saving them was ok. The clones saving them was slightly redundant. The final ground battle, while nice to look at and well directed, never really put the main heroes in any danger, so we didn't care. The showdown with Dooku was too short. Yoda fighting was nice to see, but overall, the climax was lacking any sort of tension. Fighting those monsters was the best part for me.

I was left wanting more... I wonder if that's what Lucas wanted me to feel? I felt completely satisfied by ANH's ending, but I know that's what he wanted me to feel in that film.

 

First, let me explain that I am someone who saw the OT in the theater -- and loved them, of course. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I just don't feel that anyone who says the OT are the "greatest movies of all time" -- I am speaking figuratively here -- and criticizes AOTC and TPM to the hilt is not being fair. As has been said in this thread before, all five movies are different, and everyone has their own opinion as to what is "best" or "better". It seems to me that many who think the OT is "perfect" are being snobbish, and that only turns off the "new generation" of SW fans that came to the genre through the PT. I think it's time that more respect is shown for each side of this issue -- you can do this without compromising your opinion on which of the SW movies you prefer, you know. This kind of bickering only makes SW fandom look bad, imo.

Now. let me say what I like most about the PT -- Ewan McGregor's portrayal of "Obi-Wan Kenobi". Whatever criticism may or may not be justified about the PT, I hope that most agree with me that Ewan really does justice to the character Sir Alec Guiness blessed us with in the OT. Ewan also saw the OT in the theater, and certainly believes these movies to be classics. Otherwise, he wouldn't be in the PT, as he normally doesn't do "blockbuster" movies. But, the SW movies are *different*, as we all know . . .

 

Things i like about each SW films:

ANH-c3po and R2D2 and the finale.
ESB-Yoda and that whole "Luke...i am your father!" thing.
ROJ-"tell your sister you were right."
TPM-Podrace and Darth Maul vs Obi/Qui
AOTC-Yoda vs Count Dooku and Clonetroopers kicking butts.
EP-3-Anakin vs Obi-Wan and Darth Sidious vs anyone.

 

Yodaschum - "Sorry if this bothers you, but I have learned to accept that 25 years on and we are still waiting for a SW movie to match ANH and ESB."

I am waiting for ANY movie to match ANH and ESB. If all movies were held to that standard, I'd be disappointed in every movie that I have seen since.

Its unfair, yet inevitable, that each SW movie be compared to the OT, especially ANH and ESB. Those are the two (three?) best movies ever made, and yes I have seen many of the AFI's top 100 films.

ANH and ESB are pure genius from start to finish. ROTJ is a little slow in the beginning, but picks up and ends with a bang.

There have been many excellent non-SW movies since the OT. As I have said, fortunately for them, they are not held to the OT standard.

 

Oh, and there's one more thing that I need to say -- I find it offensive that some who hold the OT up as the only good SW movies labelling those who love AOTC as people who would prefer the whole movie to be CGI, and are only interested in the special effects. There may be some like that, but to generalize all who like/love AOTC that way is just plain *wrong*. As I said in my previous post, I love Ewan as "Obi-Wan" in the PT, and I find him to be quite warm and human, while having to be such an authority figure dealing with the arrogant and immature Anakin. Others may disagree, and they are entitled to, of course. It won't accomplish anything constructive to say what I *didn't* like about AOTC, and there are things I can criticize from my own set of tastes, of course (I refuse to give those who are eager to pound AOTC into the ground any hint of something to grab onto here). Who cares whether or not some don't consider AOTC the classic that ANH is considered now?!? All I care about is what I prefer to watch on my DVD player or VCR at any given time. And, right now, I will mostly watch AOTC and another Ewan McGregor movie I adore. It's okay to have a favorite movie and think it's the best there is . . . for *you*. It's when you try to tell others what they should think concerning a movie -- like someone else said here, it *is* just a movie, after all -- that makes you look silly and make others take you less seriously

One more thing -- I apologize if it seemed like I was saying that "everyone" should see Ewan McGregor's performance as "Obi-Wan" the same way I do. I didn't mean it to come across that way. As a fan of the OT as well as the PT, I was just very impressed by Ewan in AOTC, that's all. I would not like it said that I was being critical of certain people . . . and then did the same thing they were doing. Unfortunately, it's too late to edit my original post, so I have to put this here.

Well -- that's my 2 cents, which is probably worth nothing . . . . . . . .

 

I find it hard to complain that there is nothing at stake for the heroes in the PT because no matter what they do, the bad guys will win.

You have to remember, we aren't SUPPOSED to know that the bad guys are going to win. The only reason we know this is because we have scene the last half of the story. This kind of complaint is the same thing as buying a book, reading the last half of it, then, while reading the first half, complaining about the way it is written because you already know how it turns out.

For us, there is no suspense in the movie because we know the bad guys are going to rule for 20+ years. But, we can't blame that on the story, just the fact that GL gave us Ep. IV, V, and VI first.

 

I didn't care too much for the ending of AOTC because I found the relationship and the characters of AOTC to be essentially hollow. Put up with any other mainstream movie, the acting in AOTC looks even worse. I still think Natalie Portman is forgettable and could easily be replaced and not missed at all. ANH, on the other hand, has a spark that I found lacking in Clones. I could not imagine a better trio than Mark Hammil, Harrison Ford, and Carrie Fisher. George made a good choice back then in choosing the right "ensemble" that were perfectly relaxed and natural. I don't think he's done that for the PT so far, but I understand that there were a ton of actors who were eager to be in the PT (unlike ANH where the film was unknown) so GL didn't have time to choose ensembles. But even if he had the option to, would he really care, these days?

 

I don't think the acting was that great in ANH, but I still enjoy it better than AOTC for personal reasons, not technical.

 

Yeah the prequels are so undeniably better that they've completely divided the fanbase.

A handful of whiney fans on a message forum is not a "divided fanbase".

Ha!

The fact that I can count the number of people who took offense to this post on one hand certainly seems to indicate it's validity.

That coupled with the fact that it's the same people everytime that I seem to count on one hand proves it even further.

The fanbase is certainly divided:

29,999,996 to 4.

Real big division.

 

Wtf? You wanna know why there's no tension? Because you know that everyone will live and that the Republic will win! God, really man, there's no comparing them. ANH was new, nobody knew there were going to be all these other installments, so you didn't know who could die. Obiwan died, which therefore opened your mind to the possibility of anyone else dying. In AOTC, though, you know Yoda, Anakin, Obiwan, Palpatine, etc will survive. Most people knew Mace would survive. If the movies were done in order, I'm sure AOTC would have a hell of a lot of tension. Anakin flying to block Dooku's final strike at Obiwan would have made people jump in their seats, if they weren't sure if Obiwan had to survive or not.

I liked AOTC's ending most of all. Maybe not as much as ROTJ, because that one has the most emotion, but the Imperial March booming as the clone troopers were boarding and Palpatine looking over his loyal men was superb. And the Love theme as the two almost reluctantly kiss in their wedding is great. Like ESB, there's no celebration. They look out at the scenery, wondering what will happen next.

Btw, you should say third act or final battle, not finale. Finale means the very ending, right before the credits.

Cometgreen