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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Saga Watching the Star Wars Saga Eps I-VI for the first time

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Articulate, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. sharkymcshark

    sharkymcshark Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2013
    I watched them I-VI at the start of May in a local cinema. All I'll say is that I came out of the prequels on Saturday feeling like I could probably go without seeing them for two or three years, and came out of the original trilogy on Sunday basically wanting to immediately go home and rewatch them.



    Such a cop out for undermining cinema's biggest twist - what "struggle of the twins"? Leia doesn't find out that she's Luke's sister and Vader's daughter until 80 minutes into the final film, at which point this 60 second exchange occurs and that's all that's said on the topic

    LUKE: "The force is strong in my family. My father has it, I have it, my sister has it. Yes, it's you Leia"

    LEIA: "I know. Somehow, I've always known"

    LUKE: "Then you know I have to face him"

    LEIA: "No! Luke , run away! Far away - if he can feel your presence then leave this place! I wish I could go with you"

    LUKE: "No you don't, you've always been strong"

    LEIA: "But why must you confront him"

    LUKE: "Because there is good in him, I felt it. He won't turn me over to the Emperor, I can save him, turn him back to the good side. I have to try"



    Then Luke goes off to turn himself in and that's the last time she sees him before the final party.

    Not a particularly 'real struggle' from Leia there.
     
  2. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    It seemed like you were implying it was an invalid approach.

    ....Which is exactly why Lucas notes that the prequels change the focus of the original movies. If you watch them in order, you find out they're twins before the OT even begins. You're just making Lucas's point for him.

    And I certainly hope you haven't watched ESB more than once. After all, if the twist isn't a surprise, what's the point?
     
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  3. sharkymcshark

    sharkymcshark Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2013

    George Lucas points out that the emphasis of the OT in light of the whole saga becomes the "struggle of the twins to save their father", which I'm saying is not particularly valid because Leia doesn't actually find out her parentage until more than halfway through the final film, and then doesn't 'struggle' to save or redeem Vader. At all.

    I'm suggesting that it's a really terrible revisionist attempt to try and tell us that Leia was definitely struggling to save Vader when a) for the first five and a half hours of her screen time she either doesn't know or acknowledge that Vader is her father and b) after being told less than an hour from the end of the final film it's never mentioned again and there is 'struggle' from her to save Vader.
     
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  4. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011

    Well, first of all, of course it's revisionist. It's intentionally so.

    And it's true that Luke plays a more direct role in the struggle to save Anakin's soul. But Leia plays a role, too, and this was true even before the prequels came out. Vader doesn't know Leia is his daughter until the very end of Episode VI, but his last words to Luke make it clear that she was very much on his mind when it came to his decision to turn back to the light. Luke inspired Vader to think back on his life and truly examine his actions for the first time; I'm sure his newfound realization of all the unspeakable horrors he personally visited upon his own daughter weighed heavily upon his conscience. And you don't have to be a film studies major or a deeply introspective thinker to realize this. A person watching the movies in episodic order will definitely remember all the terrible things Vader did to Leia, because the relationship between the two characters will be high in that viewer's mind every time the two are in a scene together. Before, those scenes simply featured a stock situation of an arch-villain menacing a princess; with the advent of the prequels, those scenes became horrifying presentations of a father enacting extreme physical and emotional violence on his daughter. Really, everything Vader put Luke through pales in comparison to what he put Leia through--even chopping off Luke's hand doesn't come close to facilitating the destruction of Leia's entire world. If you watch the movies in order, you're just waiting for the dam to break and to see Vader's reaction to being told Leia's true identity.

    Admittedly, Leia isn't consciously struggling to redeem her father in the way that Luke is for most of the trilogy. But she is consciously struggling to restore freedom and democracy to the galaxy, which is actually pretty intimately tied to the struggle for Anakin's redemption. She's struggling to destroy the ideological justification for the Vader persona, while Luke is struggling to bring the Anakin persona to the surface. Leia and Luke are simply taking different approaches to the same goal, albeit one unwittingly and one wittingly.
     
  5. Anakin's Daddy

    Anakin's Daddy Force Ghost star 4

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    Aug 13, 2002
    What I have done with 2 different people and what I will do with my son as well:
    Watch ANH first. It's the original. THEN, watch all of them 1-6. You'll end up watching ANH twice but where's the problem?
     
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  6. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    That's an interesting take on it! I wonder what goes through the viewer's mind with that method.
     
  7. TheSequelTrilogy

    TheSequelTrilogy Jedi Youngling

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    Jul 9, 2014
    4,5,6,1,2,3,7,8,9

    You watch the OT, and then you watch the PT and get the backstory, and since the ST is 30 years after ROTJ, watching the ST after the PT gives you that added time between the OT and ST. I hope that makes sense?
     
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  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    Exactly. That is more what Lucas had in mind when he said that.
     
  9. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    Leia would be pursuing her goal regardless of the existence of Vader, though. Had Vader died on Mustafar and Sidious found a new apprentice, Leia would still be fighting against the oppression of the Empire. "The struggle of the twins to save their father" is a bit of a stretch IMHO.
     
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  10. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    I don't know how old your son is, but that approach will probably be pretty confusing for him.
     
  11. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    I have found over the years that for younger children, seeing the films other than in 1-6 order is quite confusing for them. Even 11-12 year olds sometimes get confused about the relationship between Luke - Anakin - Vader if it's not explained to them beforehand.
     
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  12. Anakin's Daddy

    Anakin's Daddy Force Ghost star 4

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    Aug 13, 2002
    Why? All it would take is to explain that Anakin is Luke's Dad & the other guy is a young Obi-Wan. Other than that, it's just different story and it would come together eventually.
     
  13. TheSequelTrilogy

    TheSequelTrilogy Jedi Youngling

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    Jul 9, 2014
    The ST is going to neutralize the whole 'Vader 1-6 story.' He was the chosen one and was suppose to bring balance to the force, but now we have another trilogy after that, so it sort of dispels that whole Vader storyline as being THE story of the Saga.

    That is why I would show them 4-6, then 1-3, because you want them to see 7-9 in the context that the story isn't Darth Vaders characters arc anymore. 1-6 may have worked before the ST was being made, but now I feel the best way is to see them the way they were released 4,5,6,1,2,3 and then a new viewer can see 7,8,9 in the theaters.
     
  14. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    You can watch them in any order you want. But I think, now that all the prequels are out, that it would make the most sense to watch them in episodic order. Both the prequels and the Blu-ray editions of the originals are clearly designed that way.

    And it doesn't matter if Anakin's dead going forward. He's still the focal point of the saga, and I don't expect that to change even with the sequels. Anything that happens in Episodes VII through whatever will only have happened because Anakin fulfilled the prophecy and stopped the Emperor from dominating the universe forever. Mark my words, the new trilogy will be framed in a major way as an examination of Anakin's legacy to the galaxy.
     
  15. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Again, I don't know how old your son is, but I'd say the timeline jump and different circunstances of the movie in comparison to TPM is a very drastic jump. You can explain who's who, but he'll probably not understand the absence of everything else, like the Empire, Darth Vader, X-Wings and TIE fighters, etc... But if he's old enough to understand what you're doing, then go for it.
     
  16. Anakin's Daddy

    Anakin's Daddy Force Ghost star 4

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    Aug 13, 2002
    I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter. It doesn't have to flow like a story. I'd just like to see his reaction and comments about the original first, that is all. Wether it ties into TPM is irellivant.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    Showing them one to six should not be that confusing to a four year old. If an eleven year old is confused, then there's something else going on here. An eleven year old would only be confused if...

    A) that person has a short attention span.

    B) that person has a deficiency that would result in confusion about a lot of things.

    C) the person is a dumbass if it isn't A or B.

    It's painfully clear that Anakin and Padme are expecting their first child, but wind up having twins and while he becomes Vader, his children become the people we see in ANH. Especially since they're name checked during the last five minutes of ROTS and during the first fifteen minutes of ANH. If any child you showed the Saga to that way couldn't keep track, outside of A and B, then the answer is C.
     
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  18. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    No offence, darth-sinister, but perhaps you should re-read my post.

     
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    My kids were 5 and 3 and they got confused. They weren't quite old enough to understand the concept of a "prequel."

    If I had it to do differently, I don't know if I'd explain the relationships better beforehand or wait until they were older, but there that is. It didn't take them very long to figure things out.
     
  20. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    We'll watch one of the films at the school I teach at from time to time. Usually the kids watching are 11-12. If they're kind of casual fans or not really fans at all, I find that sometimes they get confused if they've seen, say, 4 and 5, and we're watching, say, 1 or 2. As you say, though, they work it out pretty quickly with a bit of explanation.
     
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  21. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    watch them in order.
     
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  22. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    My apologies.
     
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  23. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    Hear, hear!
     
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  24. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    The way I see it, if you don't like the prequels, I can see why you'd want someone to watch the originals first. But otherwise, I don't see the utility in it. Unless they're extremely sheltered, they'll know the basic plot beats, like the fact that Darth Vader is Luke's father, so there's no point in trying to preserve plot twists. Of course, if they've really never seen a Star Wars movie, they might actually be that sheltered, but the odds are against it for most people.

    And like I said, it's pretty clear that I-VI is Lucas's preference. It seems that he was careful to ensure that the new dialogue in Episode V didn't actually reveal the truth about Vader, so he does have some sympathy for those who want to watch the OT first. But it wasn't really his priority, as evidenced by stuff like the additions of Naboo and Coruscant to the ending celebrations and the swapping of Shaw for Christensen. Those changes could prove mildly confusing to someone who hasn't seen the prequels, but make perfect sense to someone who's seen them.

    And there's also the fact that he intentionally abstained from showing cockpit POVs of hyperspace jumps in the prequels, because he wanted to preserve the sense of exhilaration you get when the Falcon first makes the jump in Episode IV. But there's no point to all that if you're just going to watch the prequels after the originals anyway.
     
  25. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I mentioned this before somewhat, and other posts on the board, but I think the "flashback order" (4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6) actually plays better because if you look at "Revenge of the Sith" and then "A New Hope", I don't think it pays off as well. I feel the pieces set up in "Sith" play better as the climax to "Return of the Jedi". Aside from the Vader / Obi-Wan showdown there aren't a lot of things in "Sith" that play into "A New Hope". There are a bunch of bits set up, mostly Anakin becoming subservient to Palpatine, Yoda taking the kids and putting them in different places (which kind of blows the sister reveal in ROTJ, true, but I think the "twins" revelation plays better in "Sith" as opposed to Ghost Obi-Wan casually mentioning it), and Vader's self-doubt and the confrontation with the Emperor, all of these things connect together in "Jedi". Vader's turn back to Anakin Skywalker and the light side, Luke's declaration of "I am a Jedi, like my father before me", the parallels between Luke almost cutting down Vader and Palpatine / Mace / Anakin showdown, these are all bits that play much stronger with the events of the PT, and especially the events of "Revenge of the Sith" in close proximity to "Jedi".

    Basically, I think "Return of the Jedi" is a solid sequel to "Empire Strikes Back" but I believe it's an even better a sequel to "Revenge of the Sith".
     
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