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TLJ Ways TLJ Builds/Fails to Build Anticipation for Ep. 9

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by scuiggefest, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Either villains are weak or Rey has become such a formidable Goddess that nothing seems scary in front of her. I'll go with the second.
     
  2. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Why, of all places would the only ship containing all that is left of the resistance,; a group of very desperate people, decide to go to a casino world?
     
  3. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Porg of New Films & Fan Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    I'm not convinced they did (I think the stories reached Canto Bight some other way), but I could, if I tried hard enough, see them do that, since apparently at least one of their arms dealers seems to hang out there. And they do need new weapons/ships.
    I totally agree that that's a stretch though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  4. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Because they know of the oppression there, and it seemed as good a place as any to start sharing the legend of Luke’s last stand? Because the kids there helped them escape, so they may feel they have unfinished business there? I mean, there’s an obvious connection isn’t there? Saying “why would they go to a casino world” ignores the fact that it’s very clear that they went there (if they did) to support the oppressed.
     
  5. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Porg of New Films & Fan Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Possibly, but the children workers are still there, working, so I'm not convinced of that. I personally think the stories simply spread throughout the galaxy, and with Canto Bight being a popular city, the stories eventually reached it.
     
  6. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    At the end of TLJ, I think the resistance is so small that even liberating slaves on one planet might be beyond their means, I think the idea is to set up a decentralised resistance. At any rate, there *is* a direct connection between the resistance and canto bight, so we can assume either thatvthey visited directly, or the message spread across the galaxy anyway - my initial argument was that if someone has trouble buying the idea that the story would spread, a case can easily be made that the remaining rebels went back
     
    TCF-1138 likes this.
  7. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Porg of New Films & Fan Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Yeah, I think we're essentially in agreement, with slightly different interpretations of details. :p
     
  8. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018

    This is something I just don't understand...almost the ENTIRE resistance was just killed off. I just can't imagine their first priority is "let's spread a story of Luke's last stand that we didn't even witness."
    And I also can't imagine that the first order would spend time conversating with the general public of planets they're trying to conquer.

    "support the oppressed"?????? seriously??? I don't see how you take that away from what we've been told so far. The resistance was buying their weapons from Canto Bight which means that even at the height of their manpower they didn't care. Why now that they've been decimated? And why would their first priority be antagonizing their source of weapons????
     
  9. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    You’re way over complicating a very simple aspect of the film.
     
    KembaSkywalker likes this.
  10. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Think you're taking this a bit too literally. The point is that his legend spread throughout the galaxy. Nobody cares how. That's fluff. His actions spoke loud enough that they were discussed throughout the galaxy as legend, inspiring hope for the young and oppressed. That is the essence of broom boy scene.
     
    CEB likes this.
  11. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    I feel like the films should expand more instead of rely on the audiences to fill in the gaps. Not everything has to be "spoon-fed", but a little exposition here and there wouldn't be a bad thing.
     
  12. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Porg of New Films & Fan Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    There I agree with you. I don't want some long, drawn-out exposition scenes or anything, but a little more information regarding the state of the galaxy would be nice.
     
  13. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    It does seem like the story group and filmmakers have taken a firm stance on telling the story in a realistic point of view that goes along the main characters' journeys as opposed to catering to what the audience knows and wants to find out. It has been that way since TFA - it is very show, not tell - follow our main characters and discover things as they discover things. No unnatural, unnecessary dialogue unless it is something our main characters are specifically interested in. I don't mind this style of story telling - I, apparently, really enjoy it - because I loved TFA and I am loving TLJ. I can see how many folks want at least a little more exposition and background to key characters, events, and the state of the galaxy. I'd love it as well. But it's also fair to say that the filmmakers and story tellers have been very consistent in the way they have been telling this story since TFA, and I give them credit for sticking to their guns in that sense.

    Hope that made sense, lol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    CEB likes this.
  14. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    This is another specific example of a broader problem with TLJ, there is no thought to the consequences for political/military events portrayed on screen. The Resistance just blew up SKB, which was supposedly even bigger than the Death Star, but apparently the First Order is stronger than ever. The Resistance is never shown to have more than 4 to 5 capital ships while the First Order has a fleet, a super star destroyer, and a planet sized death star. Why are these two factions even buying from the same arms dealers when one is vastly superior to the other? By the end, the resistance has been reduced to a dozen people, and yet we all know there is going to be some Endor-sized battle in the next movie, which will undercut all the events of TLJ.

    And this carelessness bleeds into the characters. Poe starts the movie by ignoring orders and leading a suicidal attack. He gets reprimanded and eventually learns his lesson from an elder character. What is his response when he gets to Crait? Lead another suicidal attack of course. What a mess.


    But how did it spread? By any reasonable measure, the First Order won the battle of Crait, and the Resistance retreated after being all but wiped out. Ever heard the phrase “history is written by the victors”? Also, why would the Galaxy even care if Luke tricked Kylo into waving his lightsaber at an illusion for a few minutes? How is that inspiring at all? Sure you can come up with all kinds of head-canon explanations for how the legend of Luke Skywalker spreads and why it matters but the film itself sets up none of that. It lazily assumes you will just accept everything without question. It lacks the small but critical details that have always made Star Wars a tier above other pop culture fantasy.
     
    ChildOfWinds and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  15. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    You want an explanation? Sure.

    Resistance member #1 gives a holo-call to his significant other. "I'm safe. You will not believe what just happened."

    Significant other talks to friends. Friends talk to other friends. Other friends talk to other other friends. Holo-news picks up on the story.

    Resistance member #2 gives a holo-call to his mother.

    Do you see how this could be a thing? It really isn't that hard to imagine this stuff in a GFFA.

    To be clear, there is no explanation necessary. It's not the point of the scene. No one should care how the news spread. But if you want a reason - close your eyes. Try using your imagination. Maybe you can come up with something better than what I said above. Have fun with it. That's the point of these movies, anyways.
     
  16. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    I personally don't think they've been doing a show or tell portion, it's more or less "Just accept what is onscreen and don't ask questions" at least from my point of view.
     
    ChildOfWinds and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  17. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    I don't agree, but that's fine. I seem to be really jiving with the way Lucasfilm has been telling their story since TFA. It's part of why my fandom has been reinvigorated and I've been more invested to SW than ever before. It hasn't worked for some others, and that's okay too.
     
    redxavier likes this.
  18. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2014
    1. Rey will have a new saber.
    2. Of course, but probably off screen.
    3. Of course, but probably off screen.
    4. Maybe. A time jump is likely going to guarantee the Rebellion 2.0 is in place by Episode IX, one way or another.
    5. No. They didn't find Finn and Rose's ship. They won't find the Falcon. Also, finding the Falcon right out of lightspeed would necessitate IX picking up right where we left off with TLJ, which would make the entire ST a 7-10 day affair.
     
    scuiggefest likes this.
  19. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    I respect your perspective but it doesn’t resonate with me. Why not close your eyes and imagine that the First Order has a propaganda machine that can censor the holo-net? Why not imagine that nobody important knows who Luke Skywalker is and so the story doesn’t resonate? Why not imagine that force-ghost Luke is appearing to people like the resurrected Christ and that’s how the legend is spreading? All of these explanations are just as valid as any other head-canon, because the film asks us to make up plot points to fill its patchy writing, a patchiness that is unique to it alone. There is a fundamental difference in the quality and consistency between TLJ and its predecessors, and it expects to get away with it because Star Wars. We all love how Star Wars invites the audience to be imaginative co-creators, but TLJ takes itself for granted, and demands that we maintain a sedated positivity that is ridiculous.
     
  20. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018

    Well for one no one in the resistance actually SAW what Luke did so if your holo-call theory was correct it would go something like this

    Resistance Fighter (RF): Hey honey, yeah I'm safe...like 98% of everyone is dead...but this guy showed up in a cave, everyone was pretty excited but then we bolted for the back of the cave, idk what happened after that.

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    It doesn't make sense for resistance fighters to spread the story of an encounter they didn't witness.

    And you're telling me I'm putting too much thought in to it??? I thought TLJ was a rich story telling masterpiece...and yet I can't ask simple questions of the story???

    Luke's sacrifice is being sold to us as this HUGE redemption arc that sparks hope across the galaxy.....and I cant even ask HOW and WHY??? If a main characters death sets in motion a chain of events that come in to play in the next movie; it should be expected that, that facet of the story will be analyzed as its supposed to be this massive catalyst.
     
    ChildOfWinds and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  21. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Remember though that for others, TLJ's predecessors did have this same patching writing. Headcanon and making up plot points to fill in patchy writing is a feature of Star Wars at this point. I don't know...maybe I was so broken by the PT this kind of stuff affects me so much less these days.

    Besides, in storytelling, one of the least interesting things to watch is characters exchanging information or finding things out that we the audience already know. It's why there's nearly always a cut to the aftermath or reaction. TLJ has a pretty good example of this - "Kylo Ren killed Han on a bridge in Starkiller Base, just stabbed him right through the heart, then Chewie here shot him" = not interesting. Luke's reaction after hearing that = interesting.
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  22. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Dear lord, I'm out after that one lol.

    Edit: @Glitterstimm Definitely disagree, but I respect your opinion. I hope IX does a better job for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  23. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018

    A rey in a jedi garments telling the story of luke Skywalkers last stand = interesting..... seeing a bunch of kids acting it out with no understanding of how they heard the story = not interesting.

    Especially since we know not a lot of time has passed since IIRC we saw broomboy earlier in the movie.

    Luke Skywalkers Death and story arc are supposed to be "great" because he sparked hope across the galaxy with his actions....so yeah...its pretty crucial to understand HOW the story got spread and why THIS particular Luke action is more famous/sparks more hope than previous Luke accomplishments.

    and your generalization regarding exposition is just baffling....exposition is a massive requirement for story telling. ANH is a prime example of this since Obi-wan basically sets the stage for us when he's explaining things to Luke. If done correctly its a beautiful building tool for a story...if done incorrectly it CAN turn a piece of fiction in to a documentary.
     
    ChildOfWinds likes this.
  24. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    That’s understandable. Personally though, I think that the prequels, while poorly directed, were better written than TLJ. No other Star Wars has been this terrible in tying together plot and theme. Not even close.
     
  25. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Yes, it would have been interesting to see luke’s reaction to Han ‘s death. Sadly, the camera was turned away right then, so we really didn’t get to see much of Luke’s reaction.Either that, or it was so short and minimal that I missed it when I blinked.
     
    nightangel likes this.