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TLJ Ways TLJ Builds/Fails to Build Anticipation for Ep. 9

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by scuiggefest, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Kevin Smith suggested in his review that we should have seen Chewie telling Luke in Wookie language what happened to Han and then we see only Luke's face realizing what has happened. I think this would have been so much better.
     
  2. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Anakin is the main character of the saga though.
     
  3. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    In a saga about the Skywalkers, they are no longer the main character/protaganists in a 9 film saga?

    No exposition of the transition from ROTJ to TFA in terms of where's the Empire, the Jedi, who are the New Republic and First Order, Snoke etc?

    The magic of the Force (it surrounds us, binds us) was felt in the OT and PT with a cohesive story.
     
  4. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Yeah not showing Luke's reaction was a huge mistake, especially after all he buildup. And honestly, we barely get to see Luke mourn at all,
    Rey does more of that than he did.

    And as for Luke's last stand "inspiring" people, yeah it's nonsensical since no one in The Resistance even saw what he did. So how did the kid on Canto Bight find out? It's such a simple question, such an easy fix, and thus such a big narrative problem.
     
  5. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    I'm not sure why people continue to say this. Let me know if I'm wrong, but IIRC, Luke goes out to face the First Order with the entire remainder of the Resistance watching. Kylo orders the walkers to fire on Luke, and they launch a barrage of death straight at Luke, with the members of the Resistance still watching. Luke comes out of the barrage of walker fire unscathed, and calmly mocks the First Order, with the members of the Resistance still watching. It isn't until Kylo decides to come down and face Luke that Poe finally says "Skywalker's doing this so that we can survive." And then the Resistance is on the move.

    In my opinion, the Resistance saw what they needed to see. They saw Luke go out and challenge an entire First Order army. They saw him impossibly survive a massive barrage of canon and blaster fire from First Order walkers - coming out of it completely untouched. And they saw him face down Kylo Ren, knowing that he was doing it so that they could survive and escape. That's all they needed to see and all they needed to know to understand the importance of what Luke just did and why it warrants spreading across the galaxy.
     
    Lost_Hope, Starkiller17 and CEB like this.
  6. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Not really, because he did absolutely nothing to hurt the FO in any way, shape, or form, and he waited until AFTER The Resistance was obliterated as an effective fighting force, oh hw impressive.

    "Hey Luke it was great of you to run off for years and let this mess escalate in the first place, and wait until 99.99999% of our forces are dead to finally show up. But yeah, you acted as a distraction for five minutes so that 15 people could escape onboard one rickety old ship that you'd better hope the FO doesn't shoot down, oh and did nothing to actually hurt the FO as well. Truly this is an inspiring legacy. Not blowing up the DS and saving the Rebellion, not staring down Vader and Sheev and emerging victorious, no THIS is the legend worth spreading."
     
    Jango723, JDN21, ChildOfWinds and 6 others like this.
  7. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    The film pretty much demonstrates that the first order’s Power is so great that even with Luke the resistance literally wouldn’t be able to compete with the sheer power of the first order; that’s why Luke ridicules the idea of waving a laser sword in front of the entire first order; if he *literally* did that, he’d be shot to pieces in a way even he couldn’t prevent.
    What he does, in that last stand is demonstrated ( and probably will continue to be demonstrated as) as being the spark that inspires a galaxy. (And please don’t go in circles again about who saw it - we’ve seen the resistance saw it, and their survival is proof it happened) a doomed resistance, just as it was about to die, was given a reprieve by a legendary Jedi master, who gave the galaxy peace once, and now gives it hope. The idea is that the resistance goes from being a small scale, centralised military outfit, into a movement that resonates throughout the galaxy, with uprisings and independent resistance movements on all planets. All because Luke stopped the first order from snuffing out hope
     
  8. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    This really has nothing to do with the scene in question, at all. And it's pretty annoying that it has to come up in any discussion regarding Luke in TLJ. We can't talk about the scene, we have to talk about how Luke disappearing for 5 years completely ruins any part of Luke's actions in TLJ; no matter how heroic. It's particularly annoying because we don't know the full story of why Luke didn't come back to 'try and save the galaxy' after Kylo turned. There were 5-6 years between Kylo turning and what happened in TLJ. Do you really think they're just going to completely ignore those years story-wise? In my mind, there are still stories waiting to be told in ancillary material. But we can't have that though, because it wasn't in the movie, so it doesn't count.

    Oh okay. So the only way Luke can help save the Resistance is by inflicting pain on others, hurting, killing. Someone's learned a lot from watching these movies. Literally one of the themes of the movie is not fighting what you hate, but saving what you love. A theme that is ignored by a lot simply because they 'dislike the character of Rose Tico.' It's right in the film's DNA. That's why Luke didn't hurt the FO. It's thematic. It's poetic. It's supposed to help teach young people a lesson. I guess it wasn't spoon-fed enough.

    Oh yeah, Luke is a Jedi. And what he did to defeat Kylo and the FO in order to allow the Resistance to escape was literally the most Jedi-like way he could have handled that situation.
     
  9. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    The kids on Canto Bight are re-enacting Luke's face off against the FO walkers, which the Resistance saw and all marveled at. Note that the kids are not re-enacting Luke's duel with Kylo Ren, which the Resistance didn't see.

    edit - it's probably better when you're complaining about the little details to first make sure that you have the details correct.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
    Ricardo Funes, KembaSkywalker and CEB like this.
  10. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    It genuinely would not surprise me if they didn't. They hardly expanded upon Ben as a character during his youth nor his relationship with Luke in those years so I hardly expect it to be good as it's pretty much an eleventh hour sort of thing at this point.

    People dislike Rose as a character for these reasons:

    1. She's a pointless addition to the story that basically hijacks what should be Finn's subplot.
    2. Her "heroic act" in the film is dooming the Resistance. She practically dooms the entirety of the Resistance. Luke coming to save them wasn't even a possibility in her mind and yet she not only doomed herself and Finn but the cause that her sister died for as well which is made more baffling by her behavior at the beginning of the film.
    3. She basically portrays Finn's act of self-sacrifice as one of hatred instead of what it actually is: finding something he cares about enough in order to give his life to protect. Considering how often Finn gets the shaft in these movies, that's practically adding insult to injury.

    Her moralistic stance in the film is completely asinine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  11. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Yeah, I'm not going to argue about the character of Rose in this thread - it's completely off topic. If you view Rose's character as pointless, that's your loss.
     
  12. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Well, not entirely. Useless characters that add nothing to the story tend to kill anticipation for the later films.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  13. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    The topic is not other people's interest in the topic.
     
  14. Lando Kardashian

    Lando Kardashian Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2016
    The OT was an epic that centered on Luke's Hero's Journey story and also brought along several other arcs: Leia and Han, the redemption of Anakin, the defeat of the Empire. The ST is being written by committee. TLJ explicitly jettisons several threads started in TFA. It's confusing where the narrative is going. The redemption of Kylo Ren? The defeat of the First Order? The rise of a new Jedi Order? Rey's arc isn't as compelling as Luke's because she started off so much more mature and capable than he did, and the other characters aren't central enough to be considered the focus of the ST's narrative arc. Therefore I feel the ST will end up being focused on events such as the fates of the main ST characters and the defeat of the FO, rather than being about a character-driven narrative arc.
     
    -LordSkywalker- and JDN21 like this.
  15. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Has no one considered the First Order members who witness Luke's full confrontation with Kylo Ren. Are now gossiping about it, and that gossip in turn is spreading across the galaxy including Canto Bight.
     
  16. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018

    it's been mentioned for sure...but I still don't see how that's possible.

    1) Invading forces rarely interact with LN's. (local nationals)
    2) FO members are brainwashed, kidnapped children, from what we've seen it doesn't look like they do a lot of socializing especially when you take in to consideration that Finn has no problem slaughtering them.
    3) Based off of EVERYTHING we know about GFFA.....do you really think it's possible that the story of Luke's meaningless last stand spread across the MASSIVE galaxy that quickly.
    4) TFA stated that people are aware of Luke Skywalker, the jedi and the force but that it's regarded as a myth....so why would people just start believing this myth billions of miles away from crait with no evidence whatsoever.
    5) Information is power, the FO would want to control the story. Hell when I was in the army something as simple as a missing case of MRE's needed an "official spin" on it.
     
    -LordSkywalker- and ChildOfWinds like this.
  17. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Sure, if the story of Luke’s projection could get out in to the galaxy, you could see how it could inspire a generation of kids.

    But who is inspiring hardened military veterans, heavyweight political figures, freedom lover and patriots throughout the galaxy? Saw’s Partisans in Rogue One - would they need a mythical story to motivate them? No, of course not.

    It’ll be interesting to see how they play out the expected ‘rebel uprising’. Will these serious military types only go to war because of Chinese whispers about Luke?
     
  18. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Based upon how quick travel is across the galaxy, our own concept of galactic travel is utterly irrelevant
     
  19. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    I'm willing to believe that the galaxy would hear about the destruction of SKB way sooner than any story about Luke would manage to spread, and it would be this event that actually inspires rebels to rise up or grow in number. Although the people on Crait saw it, that story could be easily be waved away as nonsense. Another myth. It's not an event that has any immediate consequence on the galactic stakes. It may lead to more jedi eventually, or more rebels believing or having hope, but ... I would think that the destruction of the planet destroying weapon base would be more impactful to a group of fighters hearing the call.

    Who knows what to expect in the next episode.
     
  20. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018

    I don't see where I compared our concept of galactic travel to the GFFA.......unless you're confused by point 3). in which case it took a year or two for a lot of people to hear about palpatines demise....
    Thousands of star systems, thousands of planets, trillions of aliens/humans, and we are supposed to believe with in days 15 resistance fighters who have just lost their entire army are zipping around GFFA as story tellers....or that the FO is just broadcasting their failure across a galaxy they're conquering??
     
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  21. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I’m not “confused” by your point three, it just strikes me as a bizarre point, really. The news spreads across he galay. We don’t yet know quite how, or the exact timescale, but it hardly seems a big issue.
     
  22. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Agreed.
     
  23. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2004
    I don’t have a problem with Luke’s projection spreading through the galaxy, because it’s fairytale stuff in a fantasy world.

    What does bother me is the inspiration itself. Who does it inspire? Why would Chinese whispers about a Jedi trick be more inspirational to actual militias and serious politicians than the Resistance destroying Starkiller Base? The whole ‘Luke’s inspiration’ angle is just weak and should only really appeal to kids who want to become Jedi.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  24. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    We have a sense of the timescale because IIRC we see broom boy earlier in the movie. Obviously he aged very much since then.

    And I don't see how its bizarre?? This is a work of fiction created by a professional writer....the story states that Luke actions spread across the galaxy.
    Now in all seriousness is it too much to ask that I be able to analyze a KEY aspect in this trilogy? Luke's story sparking hope across the galaxy is the end of the story arc for one of the most important characters in fiction of all time....I should be able to ask How did the story reach SLAVES on Canto Bight? Who spread the story?? How did they spread it? Why do people all of a sudden start believing in Luke Skywalker when they didn't before?
    "just because" is an excuse that works in a 2nd graders short story.
     
  25. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018

    At first I didn't have an issue with it spreading...but then after thinking about it things really started bothering me. Why would people start believing this story about Luke when TFA told us that people thought the stories about Luke were just myths? Which then turned in to "who spread the story and made it believeable"...which then turned in to "it couldn't have been just one person spreading the story...so was it a group of people who spread it and ALL of them had the capability of convincing GFFA that it was true"

    This is the final Arc for Luke skywalker....they killed him off and tried to say "Look its ok because he inspired GFFA to rise against the first order". So to me if you kill off one of the most iconic characters in history his story arc better be airtight and thoroughly explained because millions of people will be watching, wanting answers.
     
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