ST Ways TLJ Builds/Fails to Build Anticipation for Ep. 9

To disagree slightly I think there is a very big difference now than there was at the conclusion of TFA. TFA left nearly everyone looking forward to the story progression and what was coming next. TLJ opening weekend is proof of this.

Whilst TLJ has kept a lot of people interested in the story progression it has also been so harmful, damaging and insulting that many fans have lost interest in the story totally along with any faith in the direction.

I think because of that we are at a very different junction than we have ever been at the conclusion of any other SW movie. It really is the first time when so many lifelong (40+ years for many) fans (not haters, real fans) have suddenly experience the unimaginable and have no anticipation for the conclusion to the story.

 

Fair enough. Several posters in this thread did mention that they didn't like the way TLJ followed up on TFA, but I shouldn't have acted like that was the only failure. Just a prominent one.

I'm really curious about people's opinions on the specific sequel hooks present in TLJ, and what made them effective or not.

The biggest one is obviously the final shot showing broom boy. This, to me, was a real attention grabber that immediately got my mind working. How is broom boy able to use the force? Is he the only one? If there are others, how many? If there are many, what has caused this awakening of the force? What might broom boy have in common with Rey? What effect will the awakening have on the war? On galactic politics? etc.

Okay, I'm going a little too long. What I should say is that I thought it was an effective sequel hook, largely due to how unexpected it was. The gorgeous way the shots were framed and the evocative imagery certainly didn't hurt.

There are quite a few sequel hooks in the movie, some more effective than others. I thought broom boy was probably the best.

 

To be honest I have no questions left regarding broom boy. The symbolism is clear, he replaces Luke. The message is everyone can now be Luke and the Skywalkers are gone. I don't care at all about any stories of broom boy in the future. I also don't have any questions left why he can use the force, it is for sure like with Rey, he just can use it. That's it and no mystery left. And to the worst, this boy was even inspired by a fake image of Luke and nothing that Luke really did or achieved in his life.

 

So Luke did not save the Rebels by single-handedly distracting the First Order?

 

Not really, Rey was already there to save everyone and she did by lifting the rocks. Luke's distracting was not needed.

 

The film flat out shows us that it was needed.

 

let us just agree to disagree as always.

 

if you want to vent without engaging with disagreement, then why post here and not the complaints thread?
Why is it OK for you to disagree with lulu mars but not ok for me to disagree with your point?

 

Let me ask you this. How did broom boy hear about what Luke did on crait??

Did the 12 resistance/rebel fighters quit their jobs to become travelling story tellers??? You cant expect me to believe that word of mouth spreads that quickly across thousands of planets.

And if all it takes is a story to get passed around why in the world do people in TFA believe luke, the jedi and the force are myths? They have the stories and the proof already but noooo this one is the one that does the trick?!

Guy 1: omg Luke Skywalker the man who defeated vader and palpatine appeared on Crait to help the resistance!!!
Guy 2: I thought he was a myth... Did he kill kylo ren?
Guy 1: well no.. He like dodged some laser fire and then dodged kylo ren's attacks distracting the FO so the resistance can escape.
Guy 2: oh... Well thats something.. So he's around now leading the fight?? We are sure to win
Guy 1: well no he disappeared and no one's seen him since.
Guy 2: yeah that doesnt sound like a myth at all. So inspired by this! No questions at all as to why he didnt face down the FO before now or where he's been for the past 30 years since vader and palpatine were defeated.

I mean it just honestly fails on every spectrum of common knowledge. Somebody that was a story/myth comes back and disappears.. Would you believe it if someone told you Hercules came back, distracted Isis while some no name army team escapes and then disappeared again????

 

Even the effort of posting that must surely have caused you to notice that you chose the option at every turn that would make least sense.

Why is it OK to write a convoluted take on a set of events that would cause something to not work, but ignore the straightforward interpretation that does work?

 

An interesting question, but why do you ask? Surely you know as well as I do that this question isn't answered in TLJ. The nature of a sequel hook is that it teases story developments that we'll learn about in the sequel.

I have lots of speculations in mind, if that's what you're after. Who told the kids what happened? I'm imagining that the Resistance live-streamed the event with their high-power transmitter to their contacts in the outer rim, and then it spread. How fast isn't shown in TLJ. You seem to be thinking hours; I was imagining months. Why did the kids believe it? We don't know that they did, but they probably found it interesting because they're very young and live very difficult lives, so they're desperate for hope and not too jaded to see it in a story of wondrous heroism. Why in TFA is Luke considered a myth? I got the impression that the story of Luke on Crait was also considered a myth. There's no reason kids can't get excited about a myth. A Hercules v ISIS story could be interesting, even if nobody believed it.

So, there you have my completely made up answers, but again: this is a sequel hook. It's meant to be a tease, not an entire story. That comes in the sequel.

 

“how did broom boy hear about what Luke did on craft?”

I know, right. That’d need some things to be established in the film.

Like, it’d need to establish that someone on the falcon had met broom boy.
Also, it’d need to establish that those people on the falcon thought that those kids on Canto Bight might have some experience of being oppressed that might make them naturally predisposed to the resistance.
It’d probably help if someone on the falcon can been brought up in an opressive regime, so they might feel even more empathy with the children left behind on Canto Bight.
And none of THAT was in TLJ....oh wait. Yes, it exactly was.

Ah well, even so, it’d need for them to relate the story of what Luke did. And I guess, if you’re ultra sceptical, you could say that those kids might disbelieve it. Damn, I guess the filmmakers would have to pull a concept out of thin air, like, I dunno, Jedi living on after their death, and appearing to others.

 

I dont see how what i wrote is any more convoluted than what RJ wants me to believe

This movie made this ending the supposed redemption for Luke. His actions are supposed to mean something.

How did this story get spread to the galaxy for one and secondly what makes them believe it?? Valid questions considering Han had to convince our main characters it was all real.

If it works for you without explanation great but i definitely require some explanation. The resistance have more pressing concerns at the moment than to spread the gospel of luke and i doubt storm troopers were chatting up people on the planets they conquered.

 

See my post above. Where is the logic gap, exactly?

 

Because the sequel hook requires for broom boy to hear the story, believe it, and attempt to use the force. All off screen. I suspend my disbelief when it comes to anakin not apearing to luke or ben, when it comes to luke not caring that Han is dead or consoling chewie, when it comes to Rey's power and quick aptitude...at least make sure the tie in to the next movie is flawless.

 

“All off screen”

Yep. All off screen. But all eminently logical, to the point where it is obvious what happened. It’s you muddying the issue by making it complex. Finn went back to somewhere where there were kids being oppressed. One of them at least, is Force sensitive.
It’s that simple. If you argue against it with something more complex, you’d better do a better job of explaining why it makes more sense than a straightforward filling of the gaps involving characters acting in character, and towards a goal we know they have.

 

If you put all of the clarification people want onscreen, the film would be a critical flop as well, and then Disney and LFL really should be worried. SW fans who want everything personally explained to their own specifications are living in a dream world, which, if it happened, would result in the world getting a far inferior film.

Here's the thing, I get that some people may be unenthused now, and have been turned off by the ST for good. Let's talk again when we're two weeks out from episode 9 and we have footage and an idea of where things are headed.

 

Well they were going to have Luke do something and this is where they chose. But if Luke had for some reason died earlier on the island then they could still have Rey lifting rocks in the nick of time with little adjustment. Even with Lukes appearance they still needed Rey to lift those rocks. It would have been better for Lukes character if no rocks needed to be lifted and his appearance saved the day - obviously. So what was the real reason for Lukes appearance from the perspective of the writers? To save Luke from looking almost completely ineffectual. In a way, his own Deus Ex Machina.

 

Great if they would have shown him just as force sensitive no problem.

But he was "inspired" by luke...

How, what, where, when, why and who. You learn that while writing short stories in 1st grade!.

They gave us the what and the why.

But im left filling in the How, where, when and who??? Am i being paid for coming up with the story.

 

There’s nobody who posts on these boards who won’t see IX

 

The how, and the who are all obvious - go on, tell me yourself who did it and how. Because not being able to fill in that blank reflects worse on you than the film. and the when is simply “an indeterminate time after the falcon jumped into lightspeed”
Dress it up however you want, this isn’t anything other than utterly conventional as a method of economic storytelling.

 

Its not everything! Even you must admit there are some questions that needed to be answered in the movie that werent.

Excitement and anticipation get built because im invested in the characters and im fearing for their lives.

I cant get invested in the characters if they're changing their personalities to suit the story! No transitions. Its 100% this way for TFA and 100% then opposite for TLJ.

Rewatch TFA. Poe isnt poe anymore, finn isnt finn. Most characters regressed in this film. No progression.

And apparently the good guys arent good guys because they're forcing peoplr to fight for the?! Wtf!

 

Ha ha I was about to type the same thing. I do wonder if LFL and Disney do indeed intend for 6 episodes (but originally only three but have changed course). It would be logical if IX ended with the dark side gaining a victory of sorts with Rey and Kylo as the bad guys. Then X-XII were the redemption.

 

exactly and more or less Luke = Finn. Both were given things to do that could have been easily skipped completely. And that's the big difference to episode I-VI, which was always a team effort and everyone needed help from others and never had characters which were completely useless. If you think about it, even 3PO was needed for translation and Jar Jar for the senate later.

 

Alright then. Who told broom boy? How did broom boy hear the story? Im assuming not alot of people spend there time discussing the war with their child slaves