Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by MasterKazur, Dec 22, 2006.

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  1. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    The whole "Force Points use as though three levels higher" really doesn't mean a whole lot for the overall power of the Skywalker's.
    Someone like Jacen Solo, post-NJO Luke and RotS Anakin should have some other Special Qualities. I mean Jacen doesn't even have the Force Point SQ.

    Mace Windu, Obi-Wan and Palpatine all state that Anankin is the most powerful Jedi in galactic history (up to that point) but his RPG stats just don't do him credit.
    The same with Luke. His beginning of NJO-stats are sub-par compared to that of a "regular" Jedi Knight of the Old Republic.
    Anakin should have stats that rival Windu's, Yoda's and the mighty Palpatine's, and Dark Nest Luke's should far exeed those.
    I really think these guys should have their stats re-done, with some extra "goodness".
    Something that really puts them over the edge...
    Like:

    - Extra skills points each level to be used exclusively in Force Skills.
    - Extra Force Feats
    - Unique Force Skills/Special Abilities
    - No level cap (maybe too much)
    - Less VP cost for Force Skills
    - ect...

    Something that makes the impossible possible for the Skywalker family as Obi-Wan put's it.

    Any suggestions or comments?
  2. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Unhelpful comment #3: "This is why I stick to D6".

    Sorry. Had to be done. Now that it is done, and over with, hopefully someone can post something useful. :)
  3. Jedi_Drizzt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2006
    star 1
    You could also put extra Lucky. Like in the Scoundrel's class, only yoir character doesn't have to be a Scoundrel.
  4. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    But they don't have any special features in D6 either... :)
  5. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

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    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    This could actually work too.
    Nice one!
  6. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

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    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    I believe the Skywalkers start with Control & Sense at 1 pip or 1D. Really, though, it's all a story-line factor, and doesn't need special rules to explain or exasserbate the situation.
  7. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Sure it does!
    I mean if Anakin is "the best" around, he should be able to do things only the best can do.
    He shouldn't be below most other Jedi in both Force talents and lightsaber skill.
    Same with Luke. His stats really suck compared to the standard Jedi of the old republic.
    This is exactly where special rules/benifits should be made!
    Bottom line is that stats represent what a character can do, so the Skywalker stats should really reflect their extreme natural talents.

    Am I totally alone on this? :)

    I really hope that this is a bigger part of the new system when the stats for the movie characters are made.
  8. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    The difference is that ObiWan made level 7 when he was in his early 20s after training his entire life.
    Anakin made it to level 7 in his early 20s in spite of missing 9 years of training.

    Luke made it to level 7 with only a couple weeks of training under jedi masters.
  9. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Yes that certainly is a difference. (But Anakin actually made it all the way to level 13 in his early 20s, and it did take Luke about 4 years of self-study to reach level 7 but still... you're right.)
    But that only covers their natural talent. They learn quicker. But that doesn't make them the best. For example: I play the guitar. Have been for about 3½ years and my teacher says I have more talent than most. I can play stuff now that it took him 10 years to learn. But he is still waayyy better than me.
    Their stats needs to show how gifted they are in Force techniques.

    But I agree Koohii. The lengt of time it takes for them to aquire levels is indeed part of their gift.
    So now we have:
    - More powerful Force Points.
    - Force-Sensitive for free.
    - (are quicker to level up)

    But the last one really isn't part of their stats. It just happens.
    Maybe they should have a SQ where they don't have to aquire as many Experience Points to level up in Force Classes?

    I thought of another last night: What if the DC of Force Skills are 1-3 steps lower for Skywalker's.
    I mean the 3 levels Higher Force Point thing is great but it really only works when try and do something amazing. Hence use a Force Point. And how often do you really use Force Points?
    I think they need something that makes them more in tune with the Force all the time.


  10. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    d6 didn't need special features, the reason they were better was that they got more CP's to spend on increasing skills, or in d20, anakin and luke got more xp. This could simply be put down to the fact the Force has 'chosen' them, and puts them in the thick of it constantly. How it gets them through those situations is easy to explain in d6 as simply character point expenditure to dodge etc. But not in d20

    If you look at the TotJ era Jedi, such as Ulic and Nomi, they suck considering Luke's Force skills at the end of Episode 4. Seriously, I mean Luke had 3d or something in control and 2d+something in sense IIRC.

    I'm not sure how to incorporate it better yet, haven't thought about it properly and it's christmas eve so i should be with my girlfriend! I'll ttyl


    edit:

    how about a Skill Bonus equal to Force User Levels/4, because they are just simply awesome at whatever they do. Pilotting, repairing, fighting.
  11. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Sorry, didn't have any d20 stats with me, and I was too lazy to look them up. :cool:

    Don't know what to tell you in terms of d20 powers.

    At the end of ANH, Luke has a whopping 3D control and 2D sense. TotJ companion has seasoned, veteran jedi with the same scores.

    D6 wasn't really big on "Special bonuses", and there isn't really a correlation for feats.
  12. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Jedi_Matt that is actually a good idea... the skill bonus equal to Force user level/4.
    But maybe it should only be for Force Skills. This way Luke could enhance his dex and in turn his Pilot skill.

    Our choices are now:

    - Extra skills points each level to be used exclusively in Force Skills.
    - Extra Force Feats
    - Unique Force Skills/Special Abilities
    - No level cap*
    - Less VP cost for Force Skills
    - The extra Lucky feat for free
    - DC of Force Skills are 1-3 steps lower
    - Force Skill Bonus equal to Force User Levels/4

    *The no level cap is probably too much, but without any of the features we have listed Anakin would need more levels than 20 in order to "become more powerful than Palpatine or Yoda".
  13. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Really? 3D and 2D... seasoned veteran Jedi? Well according to the book a character needs 7D+ to become a Jedi Knight, so this doesn't make much sense.

    In the D6 system it was easier for the game designers to make the Skywalker Clan more powerful. Just give them more D's and pip's to divide in their skills, give them more force powers and more character and force points.
    In D20 there are rules and barriers that needs unique character qualities to get around.
    I know what you're gonna say: "This is why I stick to D6" :)
    and for once I'm with you.

    The d20 game designers need to realize that this is the Skywalker's for God's sake.

    Merry Christmas all, by the way...
  14. Minela Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2005
    star 3
    These are the midichlorian stats that I found:

    Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader = 27,700
    Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,500
    Yoda = 17,700
    Luke Skywalker = 14,500
    Leia Organa Solo = 14,500
    Aenon Jurtis (Most powerful Jedi Master prior to Yoda) = 14,200
    Shintor Beerus (ancient Jedi Master) = 13,900
    Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 13,700
    Ben (Jhon) Skywalker = 13,700
    Anakin Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 13,700
    Darth Plagueis (Darth Sidious' master) = 13,600
    Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500
    Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400
    Kaja Sinis (the first Jedi) = 13,250
    Kyle Katarn = 12,200
    Mace Windu = 12,000
    Darth Maul = 12,000
    General Grievous (New Episode 3 Villain) = 11,900
    Kit Fisto = 11,800
    Exar Kun (Dark Lord of the Sith during the Sith War) = 11,700
    Shindor = 11,500 (Dark Jedi from Episode 7)
    Yaddle = 11,300
    Xanatos' (Qui-Gon Jinn's former apprentice) = 11,300
    Darth Seer (Founder of the modern Sith Order) = 11,200
    Plo Koon = 11,100
    Mara Jade = 11,000
    Darth Malak (Knights of the Old Republic video game) = 10,800
    Jedi Master Corran Horn (from the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels) = 10,700
    Ki Adi Mundu = 10,600
    Darth Bane = 10,500
    Nebar Foxis (Jedi Knight played by SuperShadow in Episode 3) = 10,400
    Joruus C'baoth = 10,350
    Darth Imperius = 10,300
    Shaak Ti = 10,300
    Tahari Vehlia (New Jedi Order novels) = 10,300
    Echuu-Shen Jon = 10,200
    Darth Revan = 10,200 (Knights of the Old Republic video game)
    Jedi Master Kam Solusar (New Jedi Order novels) = 10,100
    Aalya Secura = 10,000
    Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000
    Average Jedi = 10,000
    Assajj Ventress = 9,600
    Naga Sadow (Dark Lord of the Sith that fled to Yavin 4)= 9,400
    Jedi Master Adeus Hust = 9,300
    Jacen Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
    Jaina Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
    Jedi Master Cihgal (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
    Darth Rage (Sidious' apprentice after Darth Maul) = 9,000
    Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (New Jedi Order novels) = 8,500
    Dezar Looger (Dagobah Dark Jedi) = 8,400
    Xio Jade = 7,400
    Chewbacca = 7,200
    Tylus Liv = 7,100
    Aurra Sing = 7,000
    Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi = 7,000
    Padme Amidala = 4,700
    Danni Quee (New Jedi Order Jedi Scientist)= 4,500
    Beru Lars = 3,700
    Shmi = 3,300
    Lando Calrissian = 3,300
    Boba Fett= 1,500
    Han Solo = 1,500
    Jango Fett = 1,500
    Owen Lars = 1,500

    Shouldn't that sort of reflect the characters stats? I was very surprised when I saw that Anakin has less Force Points than, Obi-Wan, Yoda etc.
  15. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

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    lol

    SuperShadow should make his own Star Wars RPG.
  16. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    :eek: Minela! That right there is SuperShadow's work...[face_shame_on_you]

    Heh heh... But I agree with you. A character's midichlorian level should have an effect in-game.

    But Anakin's relatively low Force Point count, is probably due to the fact that he used alot of them on "selfish" acts during the Clone Wars.
    Keep in mind that the wizard stats released were for Darth Vader as of his attack on the Jedi temple. He probably lost alot during that attack in in turn gained Dark Side Points.
    The Anakin from the beginning of RotS could have had alot more...


  17. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    I created a stat called Aptitude, that Force-sensitives get when the first get the Force-Sensitive feat. Once rolled, you can't "up" it with levels like the other stats. The +/- modifier applies to bonus (or penalty) skill points that can only be used on Force skills, but it's not multiplied by 4 at 1st level; and like Intelligence, the bonus points are not retroactive. Skywalkers get a +2 "racial" bonus on the stat.

    Therefore, I'd say that Palpatine & Yoda had an Aptitude of 18, while Luke & Anakin have an Aptitude of 20. A 20 would allow them an extra 5 skill points per level to spend on Force skills.
  18. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Thats an insanely great idea Merkurian!
    You should change you name to Jedi Master Merkurian for that one! :D
    Thats brilliant! Love it!

    So you roll a d20 when the character is created or...?
    and that is you Aptitude score untill you're DEAD!

    This could also explaine the reduced Force Skills of Darth Vader after his injuries.
    You could get a -2 penalty on your Aptitude score for each limb that is lost.
    Anakin would easily qualify for a -10 penalty (each arm, both legs and internal damage).

    Do you have a list of the Aptitude of the major film and EU characters?
  19. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    one that I was just thinking of now... like Merkurian's idea. Force Aptitude, roll as you would for an attribute. the attribute bonus you add or subtract from your Force skill rolls?

    ie; Aptitude of 18 gives a +4 bonus to force skills
    or a negative to VP costs for powers (minimum of 1vp)?
    or to add to your Force Point roll total?

    just thinking of ways to make it more powerful for Skywalkers
  20. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    I like the idea of making the Force Aptitude a Force Skill Bonus...
    Good thinking Matt.
    Maybe a Force Skill Bonus and in addition a reduction of VP cost, like you said.

    This would mean that Anakin being a 20 would get a +5 bonus to all force skills and the ability to use almost any Force Power for 1 VP.
    This is a GREAT idea.
    And when he is suited-Vader he will have none of these bonuses!

    Should this be in addition to the Skywalker bonus to FP? I think it should.
  21. Jedi_Drizzt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2006
    star 1
    I've remembered one more thing when I read that someone said Skywalkers are the best. That could work. Luke is "the best" miles and miles in radius, he's special is the ordinary surroundings and somehow (the will of the Force) he summons extraordinary events to come to him. And bum! The escape pod crashes on Tatooine, the droids come to him, he meets Obi-Wan Kenobi and his whole life is turned upside down in one huge adventure. Same with Anakin, he's special and he attracts special things. The Jedi come to him, land on Tatooine to repair their ship and decide to take him to Coruscant to start his Jedi training.
    A GM should slowly present these special oopportunities to a Skywalker character.
  22. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    You'd roll Aptitude just like any other stat. In my game, it's 4d6, and drop the lowest roll. You roll as soon as you take the Force Sensitive feat, which in most cases is 1st level. Once rolled, that's your Aptitude, forever and ever.
    That's a bit steep, IMO. That would drop his Aptitude down to 10, giving him no bonus or penalty. According to GL, Vader is still pretty frakkin' strong with the Force, just not Emperor-scale. I'd say his Aptitude dropped to about 16.
    Not currently, but if I were to hazard a guess off the top of my head:
    20 - Anakin Skywalker, Luke, Jacen, Anakin Solo, maybe Cade Skywalker
    19 - Leia, Jaina, maybe Ben Skywalker
    18 - Sidious, Yoda, Kyp Durron, Bane
    17 - Mara Jade, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu
    16 - Vader, Tyranus, Qui-Gon, Maul

    Most Force-users would be in the 10-14 range, and I'd put "lightweights" like Tionne or Scout (from Dark Rendezvous) around 8 or 9. Most AgriCorps or ExplorCorps folk would be bottom of the barrel.
    I thought about the roll bonus also. However, I think that adding it to skill points instead of the rolls better simulates how Anakin, Luke, and Darth Bane were "quick studies." That, and adding any roll bonuses on top of the existing stat mods could be overkill. Likewise with reduced VP costs. Of course, YMMV.

    What I have done, though, is allow Aptitude to replace any stat minimums for Force feats. For example, you qualify for Force Mastery with either a Wisdom or Aptitude of 15.

  23. Minela Jedi Knight

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    Apr 28, 2005
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    I know, where do you think I got it from? I didn't come up with it myself.
  24. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

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  25. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

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    That's a bit steep, IMO. That would drop his Aptitude down to 10, giving him no bonus or penalty. According to GL, Vader is still pretty frakkin' strong with the Force, just not Emperor-scale. I'd say his Aptitude dropped to about 16.


    Well Vader would still be a reasonably powerful Force user, represented by his level and ranks in force skills. He just wouldn't have the skywalker bonuses that allows him to surpass the Emperor.
    Have you read the RotS novel? The "this is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker forever" thing describes this perfectly.

    Not currently, but if I were to hazard a guess off the top of my head:
    20 - Anakin Skywalker, Luke, Jacen, Anakin Solo, maybe Cade Skywalker
    19 - Leia, Jaina, maybe Ben Skywalker
    18 - Sidious, Yoda, Kyp Durron, Bane
    17 - Mara Jade, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu
    16 - Vader, Tyranus, Qui-Gon, Maul

    Most Force-users would be in the 10-14 range, and I'd put "lightweights" like Tionne or Scout (from Dark Rendezvous) around 8 or 9. Most AgriCorps or ExplorCorps folk would be bottom of the barrel.


    Hmm... for my campaign I think I will scale this down a bit. The regular Jedi need to be lower in order for the Skywalkers to shine.
    An average Jedi Knight wouldn't have any bonuses, and only the most powerful and gifted Jedi would be in the 14-15 range with a +2 bonus. Some People like that Zayne Carrick would be a 6 or 7. This way most player Jedi would be somewhere between -2/+2 to their Force Skills.
    +2 being a great talent like Windu and Qui-Gon.

    20 - Anakin Episode I & II, Luke Episode IV, V, Leia
    18 - Jacen, Jaina, Anakin Solo, Luke VI, Anakin III
    17 - Yoda, Kar Vastor
    16 - Palpatine
    14 - Mace Windu, Qui-Gon
    11 - Obi-Wan
    9/10 - average Jedi, Post-suit Vader

    What I have done, though, is allow Aptitude to replace any stat minimums for Force feats. For example, you qualify for Force Mastery with either a Wisdom or Aptitude of 15.

    I really like that one!
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