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Amph "We Must Stand Together:" The DC Extended Universe

Discussion in 'Community' started by Lazy Storm Trooper, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2000
    I agree, The Phantom Movie was more like a TV movie and should have been excised from continuity.

    EDIT: YES I KNOW WDNDSWITJCC. IDC. :D
     
  2. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    The fact you're saying Marvel and DC is key there. DC is not a movie company. Warner Bros, which owns DC, among a number of other intellectual properties, is. Marvel Studios is a comic book movie studio. Nothing else. It's owned by Disney, but it doesn't make any films other than those based on its own characters. Given its prime job is to sell toys and comics, it makes perfect sense that it would put everything it had into a combined cinematic universe as it has; they are operating an entirely different business model to WB.

    This is true, but it's also the major piece that you're overlooking. Marvel Studios didn't just suddenly exist as its own entity in isolation. Marvel used to "option" its specific characters for a set time and/or number of films too. Marvel went through Captain America, (Look! rubber ears!) Spider Man.... Hulk....Punisher (I mean the Dolph Lundgren one) Roger Corman's Fantastic Four that was never released... Just about all of those were bad, and while the Hulk TV show wasn't horrible, it wasn't really the Hulk either. What's the common thread that runs through all of the above? Marvel used the old business model of licensing out a property and hoping and praying that the director/producer/writer got the character half-way correct, or at least didn't change them too much. So, as the late Mark Gruenwald pined for, Marvel got fed up with having to suffer through Hollywood shenanigans, and created the outlet to produce their own properties. It seems to me that Disney is doing it right for Marvel Studios. There may be a instance where a Disney executive nixes a movie or something, I don't know. It certainly isn't reported on. Disney seems to be largely hands off, as they seem to trust Marvel to operate without interference. Who better than the people who know? It's not like Winter Soldier prevented Disney from releasing the upcoming Maleficent or prevented its core business like Frozen from becoming a huge blockbuster. It's that Disney allows Marvel to do what it does best, because as you pointed out, Marvel focuses on Marvel. It certainly is risky. If the Marvel movies weren't successful, then it would be a different story. But you have comic people like Joe Quesada, or Kevin Feige, and yes, Stan Lee who seem to care and eat, breathe and sleep the characters they're producing for the movies.

    WB could have that exact same set up. You mention that Warner is doing 500 projects like it is a train that can't be stopped or that can't be changed. Within WB, the DC comic universe is already self contained with almost a century of experience that Warner is trying to "find." Except it doesn't need to be found. Is Batman suddenly going to do a crossover with Warner's Police Academy franchise? To me, your analysis begs for a change in business model. It seems to throw DC comics to the wolves for the sake of Warner Brother's bureaucracy. If, as you said, it is smart business for Marvel to be focused on Marvel, then why should DC be an afterthought for WB, just because WB can cover crappy DC movies with Hangover or Harry Potter?

    As for my back catalogue observation, you missed the entire point of that. As a fan and as a consumer, I want more of my genre. The main reason is that it becomes self-fulfilling. If Marvel Studios continues to follow the shared cinematic universe concept and re-invests a percentage of the profits from the main tier films, comic fans are treated to a couple of 2nd tier movies. Because Marvel is focused on Marvel. In the long run, Winter Soldier may bring Moon Knight and Black Panther movies. Avengers II brings its own experience, plus movies like Doctor Strange or Power Man and such. So Marvel may be able to bring out 8 films in the same time frame as WB can bring out a pair of movies. But more telling is that the profit from Bats v Supes may end up bringing Dawson's Creek to the big screen, and have nothing to do with the DC universe because WB has 500 irons in the fire.

    I think it was dp who just covered audience expectation as it relates to shared cinematic universes. I just think it comes down to WB selling DC comics short, and having it excused away because it throws out a Batman story arc every 10 years- while hoping that the director captures the character well enough for the next one. That's fine. But it could be so much better.
     
  3. Penguinator

    Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005


    This short got me thinking that I'd really rather just see interesting one-off movies that don't have to build to some nebulous pay off ten years down the line. Sequels and a shared world are fine, just give me self-contained stories that are fun to watch. Or at least have characters do cool stuff if you can't make it interesting.
     
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  4. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    I like how that combined both the Golden Age look with the JL/JLU look and had Conroy to boot.
     
  5. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    This short got me thinking that I'd really rather just see interesting one-off movies that don't have to build to some nebulous pay off ten years down the line. Sequels and a shared world are fine, just give me self-contained stories that are fun to watch. Or at least have characters do cool stuff if you can't make it interesting.

    Yeah, I agree with Sinister, especially regarding the Golden Age look...

    But in all my wordy posts, I just don't think it has to be an either/or proposition. I mean, if one doesn't know any better, Marvel's movies are all great stand-alone stories. The box office returns support this. Most of the movie public isn't going to see Winter Soldier or Avengers, etc.. just because there is a in-universe payoff years later. It's a bonus for fans that the universe builds on each other. It boils down to the fact that the movies are good characterizations. So really, you have the best of both worlds in an increasingly unforgiving environment to actually go out and see a movie. You don't have to hate that Marvel has a unified cinematic universe, especially since the movies are outstanding in their own right. But I think it naturally makes the viewers want to find out more.

    For comparison, I really enjoyed MoS. Despite some criticism, it's the perfect Superman movie since the 1st Reeve one. I just think WB/DC could open the Mythos more than "look it's a LexCorp tanker in the background..." But what next? It does a great disservice to the properties, and it means that there is an inconsistent/sporadic release schedule compared to having a unified universe and the support system in place to uphold it.
     
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  6. Penguinator

    Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005

    I love how natural and relaxed the animation is - much more movement and nuance for this one compared to BTAS or JLU (and rightly so, considering it's not constrained by a weekly animated show's budget or limitations).
     
  7. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    Barely three minutes of beautiful and delightful awesomeness. Sometimes, quality truly trumps quantity.

    Happy 75th anniversary, Dark Knight. May your legend endure forever.
     
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  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    It was better in less than 5 mins than the entirety of Dark Knight Rises. Amazing.
     
  9. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    The tear gas gun was a nice, slightly more in line with archetypal Batman callback to The Monster Men. Fun stuff.
     
  10. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Zimmer will be scoring the Batman/Superman film, announced today. Will begin recording after Interstellar is completed.
     
  11. Volderon

    Volderon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Pretty much the best news I've heard today. I loved Zimmer's MOS soundtrack and I'm glad he's back to do a different Batman theme and expand on his Superman themes.
     
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  12. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    He's never made a bad soundtrack, as far as I know. If you like TDK/MOS, check out his Crimson Tide score.

    Interested to see if he brings in any elements of TDK trilogy- I doubt he will. I just hope that some variation of the Zod theme shows up, even though he's gone.
     
  13. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    So, Batman and Son comes out next month. On a whim I tried the anime Punisher/Black Widow movie. I generally hate anime because it's completely terrible (Sorry, Ramza, but holocaust reenactment is a lesser evil than this crap) but my god, why are Marvel putting their name to this posh? Poorly acted, poorly directed, the DCAU movies are so far ahead of Marvel's output I feel bad for them.
     
  14. Volderon

    Volderon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2007
    I'll definitely check that out, I love all his soundtracks. One of his best IMO is The Lion King. I never even knew it was him until a year ago.

    I'm interested in seeing him expand his themes like he did with Batman in TDK. We heard his theme at the end of Begins and it intensified and diversified throughout the trilogy.

    I'm glad he's on this, he brings that epic feel to movies and it wouldn't feel right not having him on the sequel. It's something I wish Marvel would do...they change composers so fast and themes get discarded. I loved Ramin Djawadi's Iron Man soundtrack (I think it's the best of them) and I wish he got to do more.
     
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  15. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Why so many people make fun of Aquaman and think he sucks?
     
  16. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Because the previous anime did well on DVD/Blu-Ray and on G4.

    Because he kinda does. "Super Friends" made Aquaman look kinda useless and years later, it became a running joke that all he does is talk to fishes and swim. He hasn't had a strong enough showing to get around that. Hence the "Family Guy" and "Robot Chicken" jokes.
     
  17. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    He also got replaced by someone else as the founding member of JL in most of the DC animated show/movies.
     
  18. Volderon

    Volderon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Urgh. We aren't even going to talk about that abomination of a movie JL:War.
     
  19. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Oh come on. JL:War was as good as its source material.

    And still better than Marvel anime because a) Marvel but more crucially b) Anime.
     
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  20. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Not just that one, he got replaced by Hawkgirl in DCAU as well.
     
  21. Volderon

    Volderon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Very true, it felt like they put Team B on it for sure though. Still, it's better than the drivel Marvel puts out. I watched the newish Iron Man animated film (can't remember the name and it's not worth remembering) around the time IM3 came out and that was absolutely terrible.
     
  22. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    Sssh. That's not at all relevant. You haven't seen JLA-War and it shows.
    EDIT: Rise of Technovore, Volderon?
     
  23. Volderon

    Volderon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2007
    That was it. God that was terrible. I felt like they should have paid me to watch it.
     
  24. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    I watched it, they replaced him with SHAZAM.
     
  25. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    FTFY
     
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