Amph Here's Some Money, Go See A Swap Thing: DCU/Elseworlds Discussion

No it isn't. There's no way what you are proposing can work. Krpyonite, even in small amounts, is crippling and remains so because it does not dissipate. Gas is a gas. If you spray a small amount into the open air, it will quickly be diluted relative to the atmosphere of the whole Earth, so that it has no effect at all. Almost the only way you could make this work is by (improbably) putting Superman inside a suit with a closed environment and then pumping a Kryptonian atmospheric mixture into said suit. And even then, he only returns to a "normal" strength. He's not in any way crippled, like Kryptonite used to make him.

 

Which was the story line where Lex made a ring of Kryptonite and ended up loosing his own finger because of the radiation? Was it John Byrne's Man of Steel?

I don't recall of the specifics, but I remember that Kryptonite was quite rare in that setting (and in fact Lex might have had the only existing sample) instead of seemingly popping up everywhere. And there were actual effects. ie... If you wear a ring made from an unknown alien radioactive material, you end up with cancer yourself-it just doesn't cause Superman to reverse age and turn into a baby.

 

IIRC, it was after the Man of Steel LS. And Luthor lost more than a finger. He lost his hand, then his life, transferring his mind into a younger clone of himself, passing of as his son for a bit.

 

DAT BATMAN BEYOND SHORT!

That needs to me a movie now. Seriously. I'll give them money to fund it.

Batman Beyond was seriously awesome, just as good as B:TAS. Love the look, the feel, they did it right again. All these shorts just go to show that their crap anime animation these days is terrible ( JL: War, Batman and Son). NEED MORE TIMM.

 

Right, but the World Engine was destroyed. And unless Clark didn't dispose of it and the last Genesis ship after the fight, there's no way to replicate Krypton's atmosphere. Which then leaves radioactive elements from a destroyed planet.

No more trite than a genetically modified spider happening to bite a nerdy kid, nor a scientist happening to know how to get a tech wiz billionaire's heart beating long enough for him to do a better job at it.

That wouldn't really be a fight and would be booed out of theater. You put the title "Batman Vs Superman", people want a fight. Not a war of words.

Red causes mutations and in certain media, to turn evil. Gold either permanently strips a Kryptonian of their powers, or temporarily. Blue affects Bizarro. Black splits people in two and makes them one half good and one half evil.

Said computer wasn't built yet. Gus hadn't finished coming up with the plan to create his computer and so there had to be Kryptonite. And when the computer was built, it replicated Green Kryptonite.

Which it shouldn't have been able to do, since solar radiation isn't lethal to Superman. The only other weaknesses a Kryptonian has is magic, which doesn't seem to be in place in this film. And red sun weapons, but we didn't really see a red sun in MOS.

In "The Man Of Steel" #1, only one chunk followed Clark from Krypton to Earth. It was later discovered by Emmett Vale when he watched Jonathan show Clark the birthing matrix and he stole the Kryptonite and would later use it to power John Corben's bionic body, Metallo. In Superman #1, Metallo had killed Vale and then went to Metropolis to go on a crime rampage and Superman tried to stop him, but was rescued by Lex's goons who took Metallo. The following issue, Lex removed the rock and used it to create his ring and the Kryptonite bullets that Bloodsport used. Eventually more Kryptonite showed up on Earth following the events of Action Comics #600, but was destroyed in the Superman Special which retold the story of "Kryptonite Nevermore". Then a large asteroid was coming to Earth in "Public Enemies", but it was destroyed by Captain Atom and the resultant mixture of Quantum Energy and Kryptonite radiation resulted in the multi colored variety. The Red Kryptonite affects a Kryptonian on the DNA level which is why you have reversed aging and mutant ant heads.

 

Yeah, that was pretty damn sweet. I hope they keep more coming. But still, it'd be nice if we'd have some sort of significant media event (new movie or tv show) for this anniversary.

 

Well, there was, but then it was cancelled.

 

Wish we got the 4th season. Watched the show in its entirety last summer or so and loved it.

 

Are we talking about Brave & The Bold or Beware the Batman?

 

Batman Beyond.

 

I wasn't impressed with either Brave or Beware.

 

Loved that Batman Beyond short for including Batman '66 and Purple Gloves Batman as RoboBatmen.

Hated it for the exact same reasons. I NEED TO SEE THIS THROWDOWN.

 

Sinister, I wasn't objecting to Kryptonite because of its fantastical element, but because it's been overused as a plot point.Comic Book universes are supposed to be fantastical. But using your examples, what if Spider Man fought 15 different villains who were all bitten by a radioactive spider? What if there were 12 different villains for Iron Man to fight who all became "super" because they were encased in a suit? Spider Man does have spider villains, and Iron Man has iron foes, but the default isn't "Iron Man only works when he is fighting someone in a suit."

This seems to be more of the case regarding Superman and Kryptonite. Of course there are in-universe explanations for the stuff, but the fact that literally 20 different varieties exist is a weakness in writing. Kryptonite should be the ultimate Superman weakness, not the flavor of the week. Even in movie, which has less history than the comics, you'd think that Superman would collect the surviving examples. After the first time Lex exposed it to him, he still allows it to sit in a non-secured museum, ready for anyone with a sledge hammer to take it? Eh...... A clear 50%-4/6 of the movies have used Kryptonite (MoS being an admittedly vague reference at best).

Regarding Gus, it kind of proves my point. Gus was a computer programmer, not a geologist/chemist. The real reason Gus existed was because some studio hack wanted to shoehorn Richard Pryor's comedy into the movie. Ok, fine. But even in universe, the fact that a regular person with a community college degree in programming could even create (flawed) Kryptonite diminishes the concept. Remove that stupid "cigarette pack" Kryptonite from the movie. Gus programs a super computer. Supes fights it. The computer analyizes Supes' weakness and hits him with a beam of radiation. Except the radiation is flawed, and you still get the split of Clark and unshaven Superman. The bad guys think they beat him. Superman goes through that plotline and then tackles the computer again for the finale. Nothing else in the movie would change, except that the story would be stronger, and that stupid Kryptonite would be gone.

As for Bats vs Supes, I didn't mean to write an entire script, just suggest that there are ways that Batman could take on Superman without resorting to Kryptonite. The comic Batman used drones, an "unpowered army," and the battlesuit. The Kingdom Come story itself would have to be altered of course, as there wouldn't be factions and such in the movie. But Batman could easily design plot devices to fight Superman without directly fighting Superman and end up being thrown in the Sun. The only reason to have Batman pound Superman in the movie is to give that scene to all the fanboys. But without proper development, that Batman would come off as the villain. How would he be any different than Bane from TDKR? (1)Batman shows up in a suit with a Kryptonite ring...2)He pounds Superman down, "breaking him." 3)Batman thinks he's won, but Superman comes back, ideals intact, and shows Batman how wrong he is.) Where have I seen that before?

WB is going to have to tread lightly here, because the potential to diminish one or both of their signature characters is high on the warning meter.

 

Superman would be the villain because he's the alien invader that can't be trusted.

 

I think you're overlooking the fact that its a Superman movie and that the story revolves around Superman upholding his ideals.

According to that logic, Lex Luthor was the hero and Superman was the villain in every Superman movie except II, and even in that, he was just the ambassador for the human race.

 

Sorry, I got cut off and didn't get to follow up in more detail. My point is that while Superman and Batman are good guy and good guy, Superman will be portrayed as the alien invader with secrets who cannot be trusted. And given how the last film ended, there would be ample reason for Batman to not trust Superman. Much less the government.

 

I am glad that Hans Zimmer is returning to compose. I loved the MOS soundtrack, and much like Daft Punk's work for Tron: Legacy, it vastly improved the movie.

 

Yep, it was truly one of the few things I liked about the film.

 

I know that perhaps it is expected, but part of me hopes Zimmer doesn't change his Batman/Dark Knight theme. It'd be a welcome element of continuity even if the character on-screen is not a continuation of Nolan's version.

 

I think I'm the only one not keen on Zimmer returning. I want no continuity with the previous films.

 

Sorry, I got cut off and didn't get to follow up in more detail. My point is that while Superman and Batman are good guy and good guy, Superman will be portrayed as the alien invader with secrets who cannot be trusted. And given how the last film ended, there would be ample reason for Batman to not trust Superman. Much less the government.

Ah gotcha. I agree with this premise in framework, but it is still a sequel to MoS, not a Batman movie. I just think it depends on how much development is actually given to Wayne/Batman in the movie. If Batman is introduced and just shows up to beat Supes to a pulp with a pair of Kryptonite knuckles, it would appeal to fans of the Frank Miller style Batman (minus the context), but to the general audience, Batman would look no different than Bane (as an example, not specifically) because the onus is still on Superman to come back and triumph.

Certainly Batman is going to have to act out of some initial mistrust/cynicism, and as also indicated with the prior quote from the actor who played the general in MoS, but I just hope the movie is more nuanced. It's a fine line for each character.

 

I.... don't think we can really call this Man of Steel 2 any longer. It definitely feels like they've moved on from this being a "sequel" in the literal sense (like high school... "I mean it's a sequel, but it's not a sequel sequel...").

 

I don't know, have you heard any other rumors or speculation? Everything I've heard indicates that the story of Bats vs Supes is very much a Superman story, with Batman and Wonder Woman cautiously thrown in. But things can certainly change. Did Batman get a larger role when Affleck was cast?

 

The thing is, it's basically been Batman vs. Superman since it was announced. There was that brief window following MoS's theatrical release when they greenlit the sequel where it was still called Man of Steel 2.