ST We Must Stop with the Mary Sue Putdowns

Stop retconning things to suit your agenda. Luke was NEVER presented as a messiah figure until ROTJ when we first saw him kick ass as a Jedi Knight. Han says "Luke? Luke's crazy! He can't even take care of himself, much less rescue anybody. A Jedi Knight?! I'm out of it for a little while and everyone has delusions of grandeur!"

Han even says to Luke in ESB after he comes out of the bacta tank - you know, after he almost died from hypothermia - "That's two you owe me, junior." Han saved his butt from Vader at the Death Star previously too. He was no superstar Jedi that didn't need help - he was constantly putting himself in danger, maybe because of the overconfidence that he had in the abilities he was still learning. The audience loved Luke because they were with him on his journey all the way.

Anakin, however, was presented as a messianic archetype from the very beginning...and what happened to him? You need to read Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces. Heroes aren't heroes because they save the day and develop superpowers. They are heroes because when going through the same trials as us mere mortals - even though they are mortal themselves - they transcend the weaknesses of that mortality and become immortal in a storytelling sense. They become legends and myths because they managed to succeed in spite of their weaknesses, real or perceived. It's the journey that defines them, not the destination.

If you want to tell a messianic story, there needs to be an expectation or desire for one person to be that messiah established before they are revealed. From the Matrix:

"When the Matrix was first built, there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit. It was he who freed the first of us, taught us the truth - As long as the Matrix exists, the human race will never be free. After he died, the Oracle prophesied his return and his coming would hail the destruction of the Matrix, end the war, bring freedom to our people. That is why there are those who have spent our entire lives searching the Matrix looking for him."

And from The Phantom Menace:

"You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force. You believe it's this…boy?"

You know what happens to a messianic lead? They die, usually after much pain and suffering. Hands up who wants to see Rey go through that? Not me. I think she's been through enough being alone on Jakku most of her life. I'd rather see her end up with a family of her own (whether that be a surrogate family or a real one doesn't matter), to be happy and feel a sense of belonging, then be some martyr.

 

You see it too. I am the OP and I saw that a few posters assumed I was female. And they are angry. Gender, race, creed; we are all capable. Rey had to do everything on her own from an early age. Her story is this: You can do anything you set your mind to. Doesn't make her superior. Just makes her a person. And the Force chose her.

 

Luke actually failed and had to train to become a jedi and defeat Vader
Rey did not have this and that opened the flood gates since she was going to be compared to Luke just like anakin before her

She just picked up a lightsaber and beat Kylo Ren
The most she ever had to do in this movie was try multiple times to JMT which is left unexplained

Saying they can fix it(or explain it) in the next movie is already admitting she is problematic as a character

 

I have news for you: If you think Kylo Ren = Vader you missed the entire point of Kylo Ren. Missed it by miles.

And how do you know Snoke is disposable? Disposable? He's the puppet master. He is crucial to the story.

 

Oh yeah, Rey can't have a character arc anymore in VIII and IX because she, as an experienced fighter with help from the force, beat a heavily wounded and not full trained Kylo Ren in TFA. Just like Luke had no character arc in TESB and ROTJ because he, as an experienced pilot with help from the force, destroyed the Death Star in ANH and saved the galaxy. His story was over at the end of ANH. Yeah, I totally get it.

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It didn't work out well for Luke, but then again, Luke wasn't fighting an untrained person either. Had ESB Luke went up against someone who a day earlier didnt even know Jedi were real? I think he'd have won that fight handily.

 

Snarking Darth_Voider!

 

The themes in her music are similar to Anakin's and her appearance is reminiscent of Shmi Skywalker. That's why we are comparing her to Anakin, plus the skills with mechs and language and flying.

 

I'm guessing a lot of people here really do want a by the numbers rehash of the OT. It's hilarious the things that are being complained about are the things that set TFA apart as something new. Clearly a new "Vader" is desired and the same hero's journey we've already seen. Boring.

 

The future is open. It's like how some novels have one character one way, then in another novel they are written completely different. Rey could be a great character in episode 8. She's okay in 7.

ANH was about the TEAM...Han/Luke broke Leia out, Leia got them out of the hallway, R2 got them out of the compacter, Luke swung across the gap, Leia was killing Troopers, Obiwan shut off shields and delayed Vader so they could escape...

Everyone did their part. Great story.

Rey saves BB8 from scavanger, Rey saves herself from thugs, Rey saves Fin/BB8 with falcon, Rey saves Finn from Rahtar with the door, Rey saves herself from cuffs, Rey saves herself and Finn from Kylo...

One sided, no teamwork. Not as great a story.

 

What does her belief in jedi have to do with her ability in the Force? Again, Ren isn't even a Sith. He's not a Lord and he's not even a Sith apprentice.

He's a whole new bag. She's a whole new bag. Accept it or walk away from the franchise now because it aint going to get any better for you.

 

I think Luke learned to use a lightsabre like the Karate Kid. All the chores he did on the farm, wax on, wax off. Also when he is playing with his toy spaceship, those movements kind of mimic sword fighting. It's believable to me though because Luke isn't female. Men are just naturally better at fighting and naturally stronger as Jedis. Rey is female, so she can't be good at fighting or strong with the force. If she is, must mean she is a Mary Sue. It's the only explanation.

 

Too far in to walk away now, irrespective of how bad it gets

 

Kylo is a spin on Vader, he serves the same role.

The Emperor was a disposable character too, he only really existed to serve as part of Vader's redemption.

 

The sheer amount of ego and narcissism in this post makes me want to vomit. Most people here are comparing her to Anakin as a way of showing they did not like him and even still consider him worse then Rey yet you somehow in all your blind arrogance presume they are PT fanboys trying to attack your precious film.

If this is all your can add to this debate then please, take the closest door to your left and don't hit yourself on the way.

 

Is Poe a Gary Stu?

 

Kylo isn't a spin on anything. He's a brand new type of bad guy we haven't seen yet in SW.

Are you sure you've watched all the SW films?

No, The Emperor does not = Snoke.

You're just making assumptions and drawing parallels where none have been established.

 

What a deeply weird perspective.

 

Well….are you? There's plenty here in this thread. They've made that clear in their posts drawing from the Prequels as this valid source. As if somehow TFA is less valid.

So…are you a butthurt prequel fanboy?

 

Poe doesn't even have a character, they must be saving it for later movies because right now he's just a gun and a X-Wing.

 

Is Kamino a Llama Sue?

 

That's not the point.

Half the fun of character is the growth. Rey already knows how to use the Force in ways Empire Luke was struggling with. She can probably force choke people, she can JMT people, she has telekinesis. That's everything Luke did in JEDI. . .JEDI.

Unless they unlock some new secrets of the Force Rey is going to be on her way to becoming the greatest Jedi ever in VIII alone.

1. She did do it fast enough. Not really a flaw. Just an event.
2. That was a cute moment that worked out to everyone's favor.
3. Once again, that was cute, but not a real flaw.


1. That's just being hopeful. what's wrong with that?
2. That was her first heroic moment. Not a flaw.
3. REALLY? That's called being brave and making a sacrifice.

If these are the only "flaws" you can come up with, then Lord, it's worse than I thought.

 

You don't like Star Wars much do you? Really? I mean do you like Wedge? Biggs?

And how could you not like them? And how could you not like Poe?

I see much hate in you.

 

His character is different from Vader but his role isn't.

Snoke turned Kylo to the Dark Side.
The Emperor turned Vader to the Dark Side.

They're just going though the motions with a slight spin like they did with Starkiller and the rest of the movie.

TFA so closely mirrors the OT it's almost a soft reboot.