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Knox, TN We need to talk (October/November meeting thread)

Discussion in 'South East Regional Discussion' started by Jar Jar, Oct 1, 2002.

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  1. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    Okay guys and gals:

    We need to lay out a meeting plan here and now. Tuesday was basically fine as meetings go, but the turnout was much too low (we had 5, tisk tisk!) and no one but me and BushiFox actually made it out by the 6pm meeting time that was set. To put it frankly, we need to take action on this or else we will not be able to use any for-profit business for meetings ever.

    No business will stand by while we wait for members to come in for an hour or more. The place literally filled every table and because there were only 2 people present, we had to give up our room for normal patrons to use for a while. What I need to know before I try to schedule for the next meeting is when is a good time for you to make it and can you make it regularly at that time. Whatever the concensus is, I will put that on the flyer and hopefully that will help strengthen our numbers.

    If we cannot get at least a core group of 7 people in there at the time I request, they will probably kick us out for good come November, so let's get this hammered out and not have to deal with it again.

    Thanks guys!
  2. Padawan519

    Padawan519 Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 15, 2002
    Well, like I said, I can't ever be there any earlier that 8:15 or so, unless there's some stroke of great luck. So don't include me in that core group or those who'd be on time :)
  3. cutiger

    cutiger Jedi Youngling

    Sep 4, 2002
    I hate to hear that!!! Hopefully, y'all can get things worked out. Other than that, what else happened at the meeting?
  4. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    Where is everyone at? We need to get some stuff ironed out so that we can even continue to have meetings anywhere, and no one is even posting here to offer up anything. Does no one even care that if we can't figure out anything that we will not be able to meet in November?

    Honestly, if this chapter is going to continue to be this passive, I don't want to be a part of it. I absolutley refuse to set up another meeting for this club and have a repeat of Tuesday evening because nobody cares. Get active here folks or I am resigning, simple as that. I already dealt with this exact situation with one organization and I'll be darned if I am going to deal with it with another.

    Sorry if it comes off harsh, but that's just how it goes.
  5. BushiFox

    BushiFox Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 16, 2002
    ***gives jar jar whip.

    Go get em.


    I can do whatever. Me evenings are currently always free.
  6. vongbait

    vongbait Jedi Youngling

    Mar 4, 2002
    I am not able to make as many of the weekday meetings as I would like (school night for my child). This being the case I don't feel I should voice my preference. I will try to make the November meeting. And for your information, anytime after 3pm and before 7pm (start time) is usually good for me on weekdays. If I can make the meetings I try to be early or on time. Hope this helps.
  7. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    Okay well, right now we are set to meet at 6, but there was only me and Bushi there by that time, so you see the dilemma. We have to get more folks out by the time we start, but by what time can a good portion of our folks actually arrive?

    That is the exact question I am trying to answer and so far only you and Bushi have done so. The reason for that is really unknown to me, but it seems to me like it's just a lack of caring or want to make any effort. If I am mis-reading the situation, please feel free to correct me.

    If you guys are fine with the current time and can (mostly) make it by then, please say so. If you can't, tell me when you can, but just tell me something so I can get this thing set.

  8. K9-Rod

    K9-Rod Jedi Youngling star 2

    Feb 26, 2002
    Jar Jar,

    When I started getting these meetings together everybody asked me what time it would start and if they could get there a little late.

    There is no way in the world you will get a large number of people to be able to make it at the same's just too many schedules to juggle.

    That's why that has to be taken into consideration. A place has to be found that if not everybody can get there at the start, that the meeting can still be there.

    I always told people that we would start at 6pm but would be there till about 9pm. To show up whenever you could between those times.

    Don't get discouraged. This is just the nature of the beast when it comes to these things.

    (Remember me telling you this would happen?)

    This is when the group's leader has to continue to carry this thing on. in my opinion. Little by little people will come around.

    I think any group you try to start will be like this in the's a growing thing.

    Just my 2 cents.
  9. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    Then if we can't do that, then there are not many, if any options open to us as far as eating places goes. I can't blame any place that is trying to make money for kicking us out for not having but maybe a handful of folks there by meeting time. If we can't fix it then we can't use it and that's a fact.

    On another note, attendance was also way down to almost below half of our previous meets, and that's not growth, that's serious decline. Several folks who told me personally they were going to be there were not (in fact all of them that did) and that means I can't tell Mr. Gatti's or anybody any concrete figure for numbers. When they asked me how many they should expect, I told them probably 7-10 and we had five counting me and that's pathetic.

    As you say, a good leader is paitient through trying times, but this was not bad circumstances, this was bum laziness IMO. Perserverence is having your traditional meeting spot go away and finding another. Perserverence is facing $25 for holding the room, but paying it so that we have the best possible situation. I put in a lot of hard work to see to it we had a place to use, and roughly 1/3 to 1/2 even bothered. As I said, we either get together and meet at a time when it fits for most folks or I'm out, and that's my two cents.
  10. cutiger

    cutiger Jedi Youngling

    Sep 4, 2002
    Okay, here is my opinion:

    1. Start all meetings at 7:00 and end at 9:00. That gives people plenty of time after work to do whatever and gets people home at a decent time. If people want to hang around after 9:00, that's fine.

    2. I think we need to do other things (watch a movie, SW trivial pursuit, etc) besides just to meet and talk. To me, that's exactly what the TNSWCG is doing and the FF group needs to distinguish itself from that. Otherwise, what is it offering beyond the other group? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with talking, but to do it every time is boring. BTW, other activities do not have to be big productions.

    I feel like there's more I wanted to say but it's early in the morning. :)
  11. K9-Rod

    K9-Rod Jedi Youngling star 2

    Feb 26, 2002
    I think also a fact relating to this is that it's a hobby for most people.

    When unforseen situations come up and one is faced with the decision of either going to a FF meeting versus an obligation at work or to family, 9 times out of 10, family and work will be over Star Wars.

    You are right about not blaming them, if we don't spend money intheir establishment, we can't be suprised when they want us out. We might need to review the kind of place we use. We could always do the West Town food court? I'm pretty sure they won't kick us out there?

    5 people sure is down from our previous numbers. I was also not able to make the last meeting, were the numbers that low that time too?

    Did you have to pay $25 to hold the room? Ouch! In something like this where things depend on so many other people I would say I wouldn't put up any $ of mine up front like that...too risky for my taste. And $25 is a big chunk to just disapear for me.

    Hang in there Jar Jar, I think in a group like this, this is completely natural. How many people you think will be showing up in about a year when the SW mania is at a low (until the next movie)? It will probably be worst than this, in my opinion.

    I hope you hang out with this, but do what you feel you gotta do.

  12. Minacia_Brightstar

    Minacia_Brightstar Jedi Youngling star 5

    May 23, 2001
    Rod is right. It is the nature of the beast for things to be a little uncertain and rocky in the beginning. Especially if you are meeting during the week. Patience is the name of the game.

    Again, I would suggest contacting a library to see if any of them have meeting rooms they would let you use for free. Also, as someone suggested, meeting at a mall with a food court might also be an option.

    Vary your activities. I understand that when a group meets during the week that it is hard to plan things like bowling or putt-putt outings, but it can be done. Just be sure to schedule it after 7:00 so folks have time to get off work, get home, and get to the event.

    Another suggestion: Have an event on a weekend. I know that y'all meet during the week, so as to not have scheduling conflicts with the TSWCG, but I'm sure that you could hold a weekend event occasionally, so that everyone can plan to attend.

    Just more humble suggestions and thoughts from your friendly neighborhood RSA. :)
  13. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    Okay well first off, the $25 was a deposit and I got it back. I already stated this
    in the meeting place thread that I had locked and I also told at least Rod that when he emailed me about it, so you should have known that. See, that's big complaint #3. This board is not getting seen by the core membership nor are many of our members actually posting here and instead opting to use the TSWCG board if anything.

    This board, given all of it's base membership and traffic, should in principle be the primary board of choice for both of our groups. This thing has far greater potential to benefit both groups but it is not being realized. Anything (yes, even postings about toy finds within reason) can be posted here so it is wide open to us and we should make use of it, but we are not and instead it is mainly being ignored. This needs to change as well, or we will continue to decline.

    As far as organizing outside events goes, that's just not my thing. My leadership background is one that is based in organizing role-playing groups and anime club meets. For that type of thing a steady and reliable location that is convenient for most players and members is essential, so that's how I will continue to handle things. Don't get me wrong though. If someone wants to do some different stuff and the group is up for it then by golly we can do it, but I'm leaving that up to the group to organize and not me.

    Anyway is there at least a partial concensus that we should meet by 7:00? If there is that is good enough for me. I'll wait a day or two to see if anyone has any other ideas but if not, I'm going to go by this and use it for the flyer.
  14. humperdink

    humperdink Jedi Youngling

    Sep 12, 2002
    Now comes my 2 cents !.......

    1st, Do not get discouraged by low attendance. This is gonna happen, FACT !!
    Some months will be better others will be worse. People will do their best to make the meetings but if some of us have other more important things that come up, then hey !,.....See you next time ! And this needs to be understood completely !!

    James, from what i understand when everyone elected you as the spokes person for the FF it seems because you wanted the position more than others due to more experience with all of this. Please don't wash your hands of it now before it hasn't even taken off. That's lame , man .

    If you wanna have a set time for what time people should attend, that's fine. Don't expect EVERYONE to show up at 6 pm on the dot. Not gonna happen, FACT ! I came straight from work, stinky and sweaty, unshowered. I didn't even go home to kiss my wife before i came to give my support to the FF and i got there at 6;30 pm. I don't wanna hear no grief over WHEN people arrive. As long as they show effort and DO come, then be satisfied with that !

    If you ( we ) want the local FF to grow in numbers then WE have to make it grow. At this last meeting, what did we discuss in terms of the future or progression of the group ???? NOTHIN !! Talked about other stuff SW related. Maybe after i left it was discussed but not while i was there. You want more people to show intrest ?? Then lets get a real game plan here for the future of our local chapt.

    ( with all due respect to TFN )
    Why should THIS board be the ONE we ALL converge on ?? Why should this be the ONLY one ? Personaly, I like TSWCG better, ( no disrespect to TFN ) Heck, we can have 100 of 'em as long as people are communicating and getting together. So no, this shouldn't be the ONLY board.

    I have rattled off enough ......for now.
    Please don't get discouraged !! Lets make it worth while to come out to the monthly meetings. There is something else...............Why is it just monthly ? We can all meet or do stuff as the FF during other times as well. There's an idea huh ?

    HUMPERDINK !!!!!!!!
  15. humperdink

    humperdink Jedi Youngling

    Sep 12, 2002
    One last note...... Don't take my last post as being ' Harsh " That is not my intent. It's just how i talk, naturally......

    The Hump.
  16. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    I didn't necessarily want the position myself, but neither did Rod to my knowledge so that's how it goes, FACT! :p

    If you don't like me complaining for justifiable reasons, then you can get over it. I believe it was even you who mentioned that I'll have to "go get em'" for not coming out to the meeting Tuesday, did you not? Make up your mind man!

    I appreciate you coming out and I am very glad you were there. I enjoyed talking to you and I hope you come back. None of this is directed at you in any way. This is directed at everyone else, especially those who promised to attend but did not do so. I too came down there directly after work and for me, it's about a 30 minute drive across town to go, so don't tell me about how inconvenient it is.

    I'm no group expert, but I know full well that the group will have it's ups and downs. What we had on Tuesday went far beyond that, and it is simply unacceptable to me and must change. If you don't like it, replace me, otherwise deal with it or don't turn up at the next meeting so that I will resign. It's up to you (and everyone else)entirely.

    As far as TSWCG vs. the TFN boards goes we will have to agree to disagree on it. The URL is a convoluted mess complete with alternating caps, the site traffic consists of virtually no one but the base membership, and it's only hope to grow is due to members from more easily accessible boards (like this one) getting told to go there by us. I'm not saying that the TSWCG board should not exist, but this should be the primary board because it simply is the better board to grow with, FACT!

    I've now thrown out 4 cents total. :)
  17. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    Oh yeah, I forgot to also respond to two other things you brought up. I'm sorry.

    Discussing the future: I planned on doing that at the meeting Tuesday and I mentioned that after you had left. This meeting consisted of two new members, myself, Chad and you, so honestly I didn't think it was really worth bringing up. I just told them to think about it, and we'll see what comes of it.

    More than one meeting a month: We're currently (as of this meeting) having a hard enough time getting members out for one meeting a month so I'm not going to try and plan two or more for now. If things improve here, I'll think about it seriously, but not right now, no way.

    Besides, we already have what is effectively two meetings a month, it's just that they are on different days of the week and under two different names and leaders with the same people. In all honesty, we should be just one group but we aren't and may never be. Why that is I don't know but I'll leave it be because eventually that is what we will have.

    Entropy and time will see to that.

  18. K9-Rod

    K9-Rod Jedi Youngling star 2

    Feb 26, 2002
    Too much stuff to address, I must take it all in before I lash out! LOL Just kidding.

    But seriously, discussing things out in the open is all fine and good but we must be careful about how this will look to a new member.

    What impression you think a new member will have if we just came up on our board and read all this crap? I can't think that a new person woudl want to be much of a part of a group that sounds like what I have seen on this board. I guess it's not just what is said as to how it's said. Just my 2 1/2 cents.

    Jar Jar, am I wrong or does it sound like some of these comments are meant straight at me? If they are it's cool. It's your opinion, just checking.

    I am not trying to be an ass, but if you are upset I don't think the right attitude is to threaten to quit. If you want to quit, then quit. But none of us have any at stake here that will be that hurt cause you quit (to the best of my knowledge at least) Reason I say that is cause there will be good times and there will be bad times. It seems you think this is a bad time. What you gonna do when one day nobody shows up?

    Again, don't take this with a smart ass tone, I am just bringing up a point.
  19. humperdink

    humperdink Jedi Youngling

    Sep 12, 2002
    Yeah man, i told you to " Go get 'em " sure did. but wasn't it you that said " no, that's not how i work " or something to the effect ?? Make your mind up man !

    I don't recall saying that it was " inconvienient " for me to come directly from work as well. I'm all for it. James saying that last weeks turn out was "UNACCEPTABLE and MUST CHANGE " I sincerely hope that you are not suggesting that we rearrange our schedules for you . If people can make it, they will, If not then i think YOu need to get over it and deal with it and realize that this is a hobby and people have REAL LIFE goin on and can't always be at the meeting at exactally a specific time. It's not a job.

    If you don't want a part of this or want to quit 'cause we had a low attendance meeting,then you might as well step down. Good luck at getting more people to come out after telling us " It's unacceptable "
    loosen up ! relax and have fun with it. Out of all the people i have met i can safely say that we are all pretty easy goin and not high strung individuals, so relate, please !

    Also you have the negative approach to doing more with the FF group than once a month. It doesn't mean ALL of us have to attend, if only 3 or 4 can make a movie or something then that should account for the FF maintaing an active like huh ? Give it a try. You give up too easy.

    Also, TSWCG is where the majority of FF came from. THIS group was put together for the sole purpose for the people that couldn't make the weekend meetings to still be able to meet ....on weekdays, FF was created, pretty much same people just different groups, not really, but ya know......
    As for this being the primary board,....nah, aint gonna happen, plus just to mention, there are no leaders with TSWCG, thats the cool thing. We all are our own boss, we show up early or late to those meetings and it's no big deal. As long as there is attendance. We try to have fun with it without a fuss. Is'nt that what this is suppose to be about ?? If it's a job that requires me to " punch in " then i need to get paid !

    That's about it. Im through. It's enough to keep a positive outlook on one site I'm not gonna try for two. I'm through here on this board. I will see most of you at TSWCG meetings. It's been real............

  20. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    That is your decision to make HD, and while it truly is not "my way" to jump on people, no one was responding so I did what had to be done to get any result, and it succeeded did it not? You are over-reacting by quitting because this had nothing to do with you and I will sincerely miss you at the meetings and hope you reconsider, but if that's how it's going to be for you and possibly others, then so be it. I apologize for hurting anybody's feelings because truly that is not what this is all about, but I had to call attention to the situation that the group is facing with the meeting location and other problems as I see them.

    Rod, I hope that new users who come on here in the future hopefully will see another side of what's going on and that it is positive from here on out. I don't ever want to have to get on the case of anyone or anything after this, but it is just one of those things that happens. I am not really going after any one person in particular, but it's just that I have absolutely no paitience for stuff like this because iregardless of what gets said about "rocky starts" and "occassional slips", this did not qualify and I was aiming to nip it in the bud early.

    If everyone decides to quit as a direct result of what I was trying to do, oh well, I guess I failed, but I won't apologize for what I'm saying here because everything was pretty much the truth. Yes, it's a hobby for fun, but there is still a lot of work that goes into making it happen and I just don't want to see it slide into nothing by doing nothing. I did just that with Otaku South, but I care too much about you guys and this organization to have it happen again.

    If I came off as a butthead, please understand that I am just a butthead that cares. I love you guys! I mean it, and I just want to see us be the best and most active Star Wars group around, regardless of the day of the week we meet. I am personally trying hard to lead by example, and do a lot of work for this group (custom icons, board graphics, flyers, etc.) done. All I ask is that you guys do what you can to come out at as close to our meeting time as possible and help add to this place.

    Is that too much to hope for?
  21. K9-Rod

    K9-Rod Jedi Youngling star 2

    Feb 26, 2002
    Any results? Getting any results is not a hard thing to do. Anybody can do that. The key here, in my opinion, is getting positive results....not just any results.

    I can guarantee you that this negative stuff is all a new member will see for a while since it's all that has been talked about. What other side is there for them to see? just looks like a bunch of bickering old ladys.

    I would like this board to be more about quality than quantity.

    If you have "no patience for stuff like this" maybe this stuff is not the kind of stuff for you. Only you know that. I think when you are dealing with so many adults with real lives, work and family, patience is the #1 requirement.

    There are different kinds of clubs/groups out there. Some for proffit, some for non-profit and some just for fun. In a group like this, I just think you are being too demanding.

    Is it too much to ask for? No

    Is it too much to demand? Yes.

    When you start threatening with quiting and things like that, you aren't asking. You are demanding. There is a difference in my opinion.

    The SW community went through a little rough patch a few months ago and it was for something similar to this ( my opinion). Cause somebody wanted to force their view of how things should be on people.

    You aren't trying to force your way like that but when you threaten like you did.....can you really expect to get a positive response from people that chose this as an escape to the hecktic real world?

    I for one, want to be a part of this group and the TSWCG for fun. When things start getting demanded and threats being made, it turns me off big time! And I know for a FACT, I am not the only one.

    What was said might have been the truth.....and you have the free will and free right to say it how you choose but don't be suprised if the response you get has the same tone of the original comments that solicited that response.

    Let's make this for fun again, not a chore or duty.

    Sorry for the rant, I just don't want this going to @#$%&* like it almost did a while back.
  22. Jar Jar

    Jar Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 13, 1998
    No problem Rod and I am totally with you on getting beyond this, but just understand that the reason behind what happened was because nothing was happening at all. I can never know for certain, but I can almost promise that if I never said anything about what happened Tuesday or even harped on anything that nothing would have changed by the next meeting, and I would have left it. At least this way, I feel like I gave it my best shot, even if I crossed the line.

    The main impetus was to figure out scheduling so that we can keep a room somewhere. That has been done, so I am satisfied with that. If at the next FF meeting we are devoid of membership because I took things too far, I will simply walk away from this and someone else who has the paitience for it can do it. Sound good?

    Anyway, the first step towards anything positive is to apologize (which I have done) and move on, so let's do that and get on with the fun! :)
  23. ginadiggers

    ginadiggers Jedi Youngling

    May 18, 2002
    I will come out and say right from the begining that I am not a very active member of FanForce. I have been to a few meetings and posted a few times on the forum, but that is about it. I am as much of the problem as anyone.

    I enjoy going to FanForce meetings because I like the people, and I know that James is a part of the organization for that same reason. The problem with any form of none face to face communication is that you can't not pick up on the tone and inflection of the other person.

    I think that it the biggest problem that we are having. I know James pretty well and when I read his posts I knew how to read them. Since most people really don't know him that well things can be easily misread. Before anyone quits or gets mad and offended, we should talk about face to face.

    I my experiences in life and trying to run clubs, I have found that it is very hard to get responses from people, positive or negative. The whole point of a club (at least in my mind) is to interact with other people. If no one does anything, then having a club is kind of pointless. That is why James and I are no longer runnig Otaku South. No one was doing anything.

    I think that we should decide what we want to do with this club, and it is not as hard as it may sound. What I want to do is talk to people and find out more about Star Wars. I am a relatively new Star Wars fan, and I have learned a great deal from coming to the meetings that and talking with you guys. That is all I really want out of the group. Anything else is just icing.

    In order to do this we must find a way to communicate. That could be meeting or just talking on this board. Both serve the purpose that I want for the club. If we want to meet in person (which I prefer) then we have to have a place to meet. With out a place to meet then we would be just roaming the streets. Having a public meeting place and a specific time allows busy people (which will all are) to schedule time off or plan for the meeting. It also helps to introduce new members.

    In the end, we all need to just calm down. Remember that that weather this club lives or dies is not the end of the world. With out some sort of structure, there is no way this club will be able to last.

  24. Minacia_Brightstar

    Minacia_Brightstar Jedi Youngling star 5

    May 23, 2001
    In the end, we all need to just calm down.

    Well said, ginadiggers. :)

    Just relax, everyone. I'm sure that no one here meant to force anything by threatening to quit, and I'm sure no one meant any disrespect.

    From Jar Jar's point of view, he felt he had to do something drastic to keep the next meeting from being a total washout. Everyone else felt that he was being too demanding or trying to force his vision of the club onto them. I know that this isn't the case.

    Being the leader of a FanForce chapter myself, I know how difficult leading a group can be, and how frustrating it can be when things don't go as well as you had hoped. Please cut Jar Jar a bit of slack. I do believe he really does want what is best for the group, and he needs everyone's help to make it work.

    Now, that being said, I do think that some flexiblity is in order. For example, we in Atlanta begin most of our meetings at noon. Folks start trickling in at noon, and continue to arrive until 1:00 PM or a little after. That is the nature of it. I understand that to have an establishment hold a room for you is difficult, but perhaps if you explain to them that some of your members may be late, they will understand. If nothing else, go ahead and order food when you arrive, and let everyone else order as they arrive. As long as someone is eating, the management should be kept happy. (This really depends on the restaurant. They all have different policies).

    A few other things that have been addressed:

    Organization: Some folks like lots of organization, while others think it puts a damper on the spirit of the club. I think a happy medium can be achieved. For any club to survive, it has to have a least a tiny bit of organization. Have a meeting and discuss what each of you wants from the club, and then tailor a plan that works for as many folks as possible. Remember, you cannot make everybody happy, but at least you can come up with a feasible plan for where you want the club to go.

    Message board usage: I understand that TSWCG has a message board, and I think it is great that y'all can use that board. However, the FanForce boards get more traffic from folks all over the country, and if you want to pick up new members, this board is your best chance at doing that. So, please, conintue using the TSWCG boards, but also make an effort to use this board, especially for FanForce discussions, so that any new people from your area who happen to to stop by will see that Knoxville does indeed have active Star Wars fans. Actually, using both boards regularly gives y'all two outlets for finding potential new members. This is a very good thing.

    In summary:

    *Relax, and remember this is supposed to be fun.

    *Cut each other some slack, and don't think the worst of someone due to one frustrated post. Be patient and try to work things out.

    *Things will not always run smoothly, but if everyone is dedicated to making it work, any problems can be worked out with a minimum of annoyance.

    *Be flexible, with times & locations. It may not be possible to meet at the same location every month. While that is the optimum situation, it is difficult to accomplish. And know that some folks will just be late, no matter how much planning is done in advance. Also, everyone please offer some feedback when asked about when and where y'all would like to meet, even if it is just to say "I don't know," or "I don't have an opinion." Most of the time, people do have a preference, so don't be afraid to let everyone else know what it is.

    Once again, these are just the humble thoughts of your friendly neighborhood RSA. :)

  25. BushiFox

    BushiFox Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 16, 2002
    I like cookies.
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