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Weakling Jedi...

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Lord_Elos, Sep 22, 2003.

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  1. Gaeri

    Gaeri Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Your argument about power is only one side, and both arguments are looked at in Machiavelli's The Prince. You can either rule by having others love you, or having them fear you. He argued both points; in the end I remember Machiavelli said it's more effective to have them fear you, and perhaps that is true. There's less chance of them uprooting you if they fear the consequences. What alpha says about having friends and such is important, too, though. It is easier to rule when those under you want you to rule.

    There's two ways to rule, and it can be translated into the SW universe as the Sith and the Jedi. I believe you're incorrect in assuming that all who desire power would necessarily turn to the Sith, though. It may be easier, more seductive, but I think that on the whole the Jedi are stronger than the Sith, and thus someone who really thought about it and really wanted power might chose the winning side to get that power. Though being a Jedi isn't about personal gain, a Jedi still has power.

    As for your argument, Lord_Rema, that a person does not need lovers or friends, but only power and order, makes me wonder if you have any of those things or if you're just bitter.

     
  2. Lord_Rema

    Lord_Rema Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2003
    One question Gaeri: Have you ever read Traitor? (or any NJO books?)
     
  3. alpha_red

    alpha_red Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Hey, Rema, that's why I threw you the ginger ale. We Jedi are compassionate. Actually, talking like that is one way of beating the Sith. It makes them gag on the congealed mushroom and black olive pizza they probably had for lunch.

    WARNING: The following argument may be hazardous to the health of Dark Jedi, at least as far as not being nauseated goes.

    There. I warned you. Don't you feel special? :p

    A quote from Kam Solusar: "Once it was thought that emotional attachments made a Jedi vulnerable, but these two so complete each other that only strength will flow from this union."

    Kam was speaking of Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade. Luke's been defeated by Sith Lords before, but he's bounced back and beaten them in return, with the help of his friends. Sith don't have friends like that. When Darth Revan was under attack by Jedi, Darth Malak didn't rush to Revan's aid. Instead, he betrayed his master. Some bond.
     
  4. Lord_Rema

    Lord_Rema Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2003
    LOL Thanks for the warning. Also, i believe any Sith would be a good thing to say. Even Jedi are better than Dark Jedi.

    Also, Malak attacked Revan because it was his chance to get rid of his master. That is the point. The apprentice will get better than the master, and thus kill him.

    Also, i agree that the bonds between Jedi sensitive people is perhaps good. But lets say that someone captured and killed Ben Skywalker. Do you think that Luke AND Mara could resist the dark side? Look what happened when Anakin Solo died, luke already was full of anger. Imagin his son dying. Or what if Mara AND Ben died. Or heck, how about Leia, Mara, Ben, Jaina and Jacen died at the hands of one person. Do you think then he could resist the dark side? Maybe, but i think not.

    Also, PLEASE ANYONE THAT SUPPORTS THE SITH RESPOND. I hate having to fight a battle alone. I KNOW YOUR OUT THERE!!! :mad:
     
  5. alpha_red

    alpha_red Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2003
    How would you feel in school if you were the valedictorian, set to graduate and go to a nice college, if the salutatorian poisoned your coffee and you died? It doesn't make him stronger than you are. It makes him a backstabbing S.O.B.

    This is, of course, assuming people live on in spirit form after death and go to an afterlife.

    Malak himself said that some people doubted his methods--that he was afraid to face Revan. We are left to assume, because the SW universe is still alive and kicking, that in the official continuity, Revan chose the light side after he/she discovered who they were.

    Revan has almost unlimited power available in the Star Forge, and yet chooses to forsake it for true love, which will make Revan so much happier. Before you argue Revan's strength for doing that, Revan manages to beat Malak no matter which path you take through the game, so Revan is obviously stronger than the Sith Lord. And he has no help when he fights Malak--just mano-a-mano epic Jedi action. I'm just saying "he" because I'm sick of typing the word "Revan" over and over.

    By the way, which would you rather have? The Star Forge, or a wife so perfect for you you knew you'd love her for the rest of your life and never ever stop, even in death? The Star Forge, the Death Star, and other such insanely large super weapons are unquestionably powerful, but they're objects. They're machines. They're lifeless pieces of junk floating out in space. They can't make you happy.

    *throws Rema some ginger ale and Dramamine*

    Btw, Lord Rema, you don't list an age in your bio. How old are you, if I may ask?
     
  6. Gaeri

    Gaeri Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2003
    One question Gaeri: Have you ever read Traitor? (or any NJO books?)

    Why is that whenever I express a contrary opinion to someone, they assume that I haven't read the books or something?

    Yes, I have read EVERY NJO book. The only one I don't personally own is Destiny's Way, but that's because I'm cheap and waiting for it to come out in November in paperback. In fact, I've read every post-ANH book available save the YJK. And a majority of the comics, which is how I know aplha_red's quote is from Union. Did I say something to make you doubt that fact?

    Is it because I believe the Jedi have power just like the Sith? It's different power, granted, but considering that the Sith for the most part currently have NO power, whereas the Jedi, while reeling from the Yuuzhan Vong, have survived the concerted effort of the Vong and the Peace Brigade to wipe them out, and of course, will emerge victorious in the end?

    Or perhaps it's because I didn't address Vergere's thoughts on the nature of the Force in Traitor, that there is no light and dark, that neither side is stronger, that the lightness and the darkness comes from the person and not the Force itself? Go ahead and believe that, just because Vergere says it doesn't mean I have to swallow it or address it because it's remotely related to my post.

    I know the Jedi don't seek power. That doesn't take a genius to figure out. They're mostly defensive, and the more aggressive Jedi (recently Kyp and Jaina spring to mind) seem to be flirting with darkness. But they do have power. Otherwise, they wouldn't have guarded the Old Republic for thousands of years, they wouldn't have overthrown the Empire, they wouldn't have managed to reform, and they would have crumpled under the Vong. If you believe they have no power, then clearly our concepts of power are different. They don't seek personal power, but they have power of their own.

    My point was that it's incorrect to assume a person searching for power would authomatically choose the Sith. Choosing the Jedi seems like a safer bet, because Sith have all, ultimately, been unsuccessful in the end. They have always been beaten, either by themselves or by the Jedi. Do you want ultimate cosmic power now, only to lose it soon after, or do you want to belong to a group that has it's own power and will reinforce you along the way? It's still a personal decision, but choosing the Jedi is not ludicrous.
     
  7. Lord_Elos

    Lord_Elos Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Bah, insolent fools. The only way to rule peacefully is through fear of force. The Republic tried to rule through " peace and prospertity" and look what happened to them. They died. They rotted. They were corrupt. Now the Empire knew what they were doing. They knew that the twisted galaxy had to have order, and to have order they had to rule with an iron fist. This iron fist brought peace, tranquility and enjoyment to the average citizen. But then there are the Rebels, who seem to want the Corruption of the Republic to return... That is why Rebels are terrorists. They go against the peaceful ways of the Empire, and FORCE the Empire to retaliate for the peace of the Entire Galaxy. Now, take away the Rebels and leave the Empire. You will see it is clear that peace is the common. Death to the Rebels, Death to the Republic and you bring Peace.
     
  8. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    Rema...
    "Uhh.... Im surrounded my Jedi Lovers. ISNT there a SINGLE sith supporter out there?!?!"

    You are aware that L U M I Y A is a Sith. And she is the best there ever was.
     
  9. Lord_Rema

    Lord_Rema Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Genghis12

    Lumiya=No true sith. Just a Dark Jedi.

    Also, i dont believe that Lumiya is on these forums. If she is, have her talk on this forum. :D
     
  10. Master_Byrd

    Master_Byrd Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Um... anyone here think that the Jedi/Sith are equals? In the conflict between good and evil, there is no victor. It's a back and forth flurry of victories and defeats. Both sides just pick themselves up, dust off, and roll with the punches. Jedi nearly kill off Sith, Sith show back up, they nearly kill all the Jedi, the Jedi return the favor... and it all just keeps circling around the universal merry-go-round of life that never ends.
     
  11. Lord_Rema

    Lord_Rema Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Good point. Now im just waiting for the Sith to return and take out the jedi.

    Perhaps though, the Yuuzhan Vong are a new player in this game and took the Sith's turn?

    hmmmm.........
     
  12. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    Rema...
    "...Genghis12

    Lumiya=No true sith. Just a Dark Jedi.
    "

    You are very obviously wrong. Lumiya is a true Sith. In fact, she is one of the most dangerous varieties of true Sith possible.

    Lumiya is a true Dark Lord (Lady) of the Sith.

    And the most powerful, at that.
     
  13. Gaeri

    Gaeri Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2003
    The Republic tried to rule through " peace and prospertity" and look what happened to them. They died. They rotted.


    ::raises eyebrow::

    You mean the Old Republic that lasted thousands of years? Or the Empire that was in control of the galaxy for, what, a few decades?

    Sure. Soundless logic, that is.


    [Leia]The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.[/Leia]
     
  14. Lord_Rema

    Lord_Rema Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Hey, Genghis12. Is it possible you have a bias when it comes to Lumiya? I think so.

     
  15. alpha_red

    alpha_red Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2003
    If she's hot, I can understand. To my knowledge, she's still around as of Vector Prime. Where is she?
     
  16. Lord_Rema

    Lord_Rema Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2003
    I do believe she is hiding somewhere. A coward. Hardly a Sith. [face_devil]
     
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