Wedge Antilles should have been banished!

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Nazgul_Rider, Nov 17, 2002.

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  1. Wedge_Antilles_Cmdr Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    [color=006699]Evidently you have absolutely no clue as to how the military fly and act in combat or the chain of command in a combat situation or flight systems in aircraft much less military aircraft ? Wedge was Luke?s wingman not vice-versa and therefore, whether Wedge outranked Luke or Luke out ranked Wedge was of no consequence in this matter ? Wedge was flying as Luke?s wingman and therefore Luke was in command of the trio consisting of Biggs, Wedge and himself - Luke gave Wedge the order to pull out, an order he had to comply with - there were no questions allowed, period, end of story, not open for further discussion.

    Unlike commercial and recreational aircraft, the systems on fighter aircraft are much more delicate even though they are designed to take a lot of punishment as well as fighters do not have redundant and/or backup systems except in the way of life support ? when one goes that it ? it is gone ? this is because in combat situations you do not have the time nor the concentration to switch from the damaged system to the backup ? when you are hit or have a malfunction such as Wedge did, you and your aircraft become a liability, a hindrance, an obstruction, et cetera, and you have only a few options open to you ? eject and hope that you can be picked up by your own people (and in this case that would not happen as you would land on the Death Star which was going to be blown up and therefore you would be dead), crash you and your bird on to the surface of the Death Star thus resulting in your death and the loss of a fighter, or do as Wedge did and pull out of the battle and attempt to limp home. He flew the trench run for as long as his fighter would let him making him a HERO not a bum - just like every man and woman who flew at Yavin that day regardless if they lived to tell the tale or died in trying to destroy the Death Star.

    Wedge :>o<: USAF Lt. Colonel (Ret.) F-16 Flying Falcon and Desert Storm Veteran[/color]
  2. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    NR is being :p , right? Please tell me that the greatest non-jedi fighter pilot in the GFFA is not getting bashed. :eek: ?[face_plain]

    Are you smoking the whacky weed? Because that statement is PREPOSTOROUS.

    Please tell me I did not read this post!
  3. xie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 5
    Banished to where? The gungan city?

    Tis a hidden city.
  4. WRAITH_LEADER Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2002
    star 4
    I could post but I think my point has clearly been proven. If You still want to consider Wedge being banished N_R, your point on him droping behind Vader doesn't hold. Why didn't any of the other pilots do it either?
  5. Jedi_Liz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 6
    Wedge should NOT be banished. It was true - he wouldn't do them any good. He could have been killed. He pulled away and lived. He took part in blowing up the 2nd death star.



  6. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Okay, here's a little fuel for the flames...

    How do we know for SURE that Wedge really was hit, or that he was as "disabled" as he claimed to be?
    Maybe a near miss made him take a direct hit in his underwear, and he decided to get the hell out (seeing as how every other wingman, and lastly Biggs, was laser bait for Vader.)

    wait....
    ...hold on...
    [this flamesuit is hard to get on...musta gained weight lately :) ]

    >squeeze<

    >zip<

    Okay...
  7. Lyta_Skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2002
    star 2
    [color=006699]Pulls out the flame thrower, and takes aim at MeBeJedi

    Wedge was fighting with his controls when several small flashes and sparks lit his control board. One small panel exploded, leaving molten slag behind. Somehow he managed to retain control of the ship.

    "I've got a bad malfunction, Luke. I can't stay with you."


    Direct quote from the novelization of ANH. This indicates that he did indeed have a malfunction that almost cost him his life without the addition of trying to fight off Vader and his croanies.

    I will review the tape later this evening and post what is shown there.[/color]
  8. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Well, the Millenium Falcon is in arguably worse shape, and look what Han gets it to do...

    Besides, maybe Wedge shot the panels with his blaster when George wasn't looking?

    Wedge coulda pulled a move like Luke did on the speederbikes...hit the brakes, let them fly right by (maybe that was Top Gun?), take a few potshots before he pulled out.
  9. Obi-Zon_Genobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2002
    star 1
    Yes they'd banish Wedge for destroying General Dodonna's Heybliber ;)

    Anyway even if the Falcon was in worse shape Han has a severe case of main character syndrome also called "Luck" whereas Wedge just uses Lando's in the Death Star II
  10. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
  11. Nazgul_Rider Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    OK, I've listened to your defenses for Wedge, and I decided to once again review the controversial event just to make sure. I'm sorry, I win this one. Not only did Wedge deliver the most effeminate "Sorry!" that I have ever heard, but he doesn't take more than one second to think over his cowardly decision. As soon as Luke tells him to leave, he bolts outta there like a frightened Scooby Doo. I'm sorry, but Wedge almost destroyed the rebel alliance. He's lucky Han showed up to save the day, or else Wedge would've been looking for some new work in the galaxy. How can anyone stand behind this guy? I would rather endure 18 months of constant anal leakage, than head into battle with Mr. Antilles.

    And I've read that many want to forgive his cowardice all because of his efforts in ROTJ. Wedge goes into the Death Star in front of the Falcon. Therefore he is shielded from enemy fire, and takes no risk whatsoever, while his comrades are shot down one by one. I'm sorry to say this and force everyone to realize this but Wedge Antilles is about as useless as a testicular blood clot.

    I declare that we start a "Banish Wedge from Rebel Alliance" petition. Who's with me?
  12. Lyta_Skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2002
    star 2
    Well I can tell you that I am MOST definately NOT with you, I will happily fly into battle any day with Wedge Antilles as my wing, and have done so on many occasion (if you count RPG) therefore I believe it is up to those of us who know Wedge to determine his status as a brave man, and therefore, I believe that those of you who do not know him or just want to start a war over it, should get over it and get a life, I will not reiterate my arguments regarding Wedge, however, there is no way in Sith that he is, has been nor ever will be a coward.
  13. WMCoolmon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    The true story behind Wedge's leaving the trench when he did:
    [image=http://members.cox.net/~wmcoolmon/dcm/79.gif]
    :p

    But seriously, Wedge might have broken off because his skills as a pilot were more valuable than any cover he could provide. The Rebel Alliance lost a LOT of pilots, after all. Wedge might have lost weapons systems, so the Imperials would just have ignored him and concentrated on Luke. He might gain Luke a second or two by running into the Imperial lasers, but by that time it would probably be too late.
    I doubt Wedge was real worried about how he sounded at the time, either. If Luke managed to blow it up without him, he probably wouldn't be too angry. If not, it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Pretty much anybody in that situation would be relieved that they didn't have to stay as a set of living shields and do their best to run into the enemy's fire.
  14. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    :_| for the incoherent babble and misinterpretations of NR and the actions of Wedge in the Trench. :(

    Ok, let me get this straight! You have been given numerous explanations, which in my mind equals the totallity of the explanation needed, to why the petition is senseless.

    And yet, you seem to ignore the obvious.

    Ok a recap is needed....

    -Wedge is running cover for Luke with Biggs.

    -Wedge's X-Wing is damaged by laser fire from Darth Vader.

    -Circuit boards are fried on Wedge's X-Wing. We know this because of sparks in the cockpit.

    -The X-Wing's ability to fly EFFECTIVE cover is severely hindered by the fried circuit board. Propulsion and manueverability are affected.
    This means that Wedge not only would not be able to keep up his EFFECTIVE cover, but he also would be a COMPLETE SITTING DUCK or Vader-bait. he could not move the X-Wing at all.

    -Wedge was the wingman, and was given an order to leave.

    END OF DISCUSSION
  15. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Wedge "effeminate?"

    Not even!

    Wedge is one of the bravest, manliest, strongest men ever to serve in the Rebellion and later the New Republic.

  16. WRAITH_LEADER Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2002
    star 4
    Well, You still haven't replied to why no one else dropped behind Vader.

    Besides. Read the X-wing novels if you really think wedge is worthless. that might help.
  17. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    You don't like Wedge because he SUPPOSEDLY abandoned Luke in the trench after sabotaging his own ship? How about if he'd stayed? Maybe if he had been shot down by Vader, a piece of his X-Wing would have hit Luke and destroyed his ship? NOW do you think Wedge should have got out? ;)

    Anyway, he's such a minor character in the films he really doesn't warrant a thread like this. It's really petty.
  18. Gotterdammerung Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2002
    star 3
    It's really rather amusing that despite a nearly unanimous tearing to pieces of Nazgul_Rider's arguments, he still sees fit to declare himself the winner. One more point against the human sense of defeat.

    And just in case it isn't apparent in the above statement, I'm very much in support of Wedge.
  19. White_Knight_ES1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 2
    I believe there is some merit to the aguments provided that the Alliance's tactics at Yavin were fundamentally flawed. In similar threads I posed the question of why didn't anyone attempt to fly in BEHIND Vader and his escorts and take them out. That would seem to me the more productive means of providing cover for the flight leader. If Solo could catch them by surprise and provide the EFFECTIVE cover that he did, why not anyone else from Red Group (Wedge included)? The tactic was essentialy line up a barrier behind the flight leader and wait to die. That only proved to delay the inevitable death of the leader, not remove the threat to him. Had Solo not done what he did when he did, Luke would have died before he finally got to that exaust port. Luke even tried to increase their chances by running the trench run at full speed, which proved ineffective. The best conclusion that can be drawn is that to increase the chances for success, the pursuing fighters in the trench needed to be taken out.

    Is Wedge a coward? Personally I give him props for his actions at Hoth and Endor. At Yavin he flew well and did already save Luke's life once during the dogfights. But I do have to admit that his "Sorry!" response in the trench did sound a bit wuss-like in nature. But there is a good point made earlier about this moment. Why not deaccelerate and let Vader overfly him then take him out from behind? He can't keep up anyway. Orders are orders, but I doubt that Luke or Biggs would object to such quick thinking and saving their lives.
  20. Jedi_Master_Mazzara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2001
    star 4
    "navigation or propulsion problem."

    Exactly!! He wasn't A) able to navigate back to the area of the Trench that Luke and the TIEs were at (i.e. triangulate, locate, whatever, exactly where they were at. Remeber, the death star is big and they were going fairly quick through that trench) or B)able to fly fast enough to catch them with his propulsion.
  21. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Oh yes, the Rebels could definitely afford to banish great pilots, too [face_plain]

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  22. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Let's see..

    "Wedge you can't do any good back there."

    "But Luke, I can still..."

    "No! That's an order!"

    "Come on, Luke. You need me."

    "Yes, I need you to take care of the Princess for me. Now, get outta here!"

    "Wait, what if I slowed down, and let them pass.."

    "Are you crazy? Leave, before I bring you up on charges."

    "Wait! I've got it! What if I pulled up, and came back down on top of them. I could probably get one or two?"

    "Don't be stupid! That would NEVER work! Now, bugger off!"

    <effeminate> "Sorry"

    Nope...no discussion, reluctance, or resevations. Just a simply "Sorry", and luckily Wedge turned off his mike before adding "sucker!" It would appear he was pulling up before Luke finished giving the order to BEGIN pulling up.
    Wedge was probably sorry he'd never thought of this trick sooner.
    BTW Wedge, wave "Hi" to Han on your way out.

    ...Jedi Satimber...

    -----------------
    END OF DISCUSSION
    -----------------
    Sorry you had to leave it so early, when it's getting interesting :)
  23. Wedge_Antilles_Cmdr Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    [color=006699]N_R: Please elucidate for those of us here how you have been able to extrapolate from the information presented to you, that you 'won' as there has not been one shred of evidence posted to this board or in this thread to support such a presumption ? I deduce from your statement that you have proven the old adage of what happens to one?s self when one assumes something. After a personal and lengthy review of both the book and the movie, along with having been an Air Force combat pilot who flew in Desert Storm and has been on many 72 hour live fire exercises in the F-16 so I am very familiar with ?comm chatter? and giving and receiving direct orders ? which Wedge was give by Luke, the nominal leader for that sortie, Wedge?s ?Sorry? not effeminate ? to the contrary, it was stated with disappointment of being given a direct order to leave the field of combat due to damage sustained by his bird and thereby being unable to continue with his part of the battle.

    EDIT: More information added by author.[/color]
  24. DarthStothe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 2
    Wedge is a great and intrical character in the OT trilogy.
  25. Daughter_of_Yubyub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    If you look at the EU...

    *wonders if she really wants to open this can of worms*

    Umm, if you hate the EU, just ignore the rest of this post, don't flame.

    Now that that's done with, Wedge does feel a lot of guilt about going back, but he also sees why he had to do it, when he issues the same order to one of his pilots.
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