Weight of Duels - can III live up to the hype?

Hey all,

I was thinking about this so I thought I'd share. From a narrative standpoint, what makes the Classic films so great is the richness of the story and its solid build from one situation to the next. Much of this narrative catharsis culminates in the saber duels.

In Star Wars, we almost scream "No" with Luke when Ben gets chopped down because Ben has been developed as Luke's mentor and friend, Luke's surrogate father, and Vader has clearly been established as an unstoppable, evil tyrant.

Empire builds wonderfully off what came before it in IV, and when we get to the confrontation between Luke and Vader in V, I am always on the edge of my seat b/c I am thinking, "Oh man! Luke is going after that menace that killed Ben!"

By Jedi, the story of Vader and Luke reaches its apex as it cascades off Star Wars and ESB with the complications of Vader being Luke's father, Luke wanting to save him. I sit there and always grit my teeth, "HOW is Luke going to save his father when his father is trying to kill him? What is Luke going to do?!"

There is weight behind the duels - story weight that raises the tension and makes the duels kinetic and engaging.

In the Prequel Trilogy so far, there has not been sufficient character development nor clearly paced narrative build to bring about such reactions. Obi-Wan vs. Maul comes closer than the other PT duels because Maul is seen earlier as a deadly foe and Qui-Gon is dying on the ground, but there is still an antiseptic distance to the whole thing.

The duels in AOTC are, in my humble opinion, cotton candy. We have no idea who Dooku is, what his intentions or abilities really are, and when he gets it on with Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda I can't get excited, nor do I feel any tension. When Luke gets his hand cut off, I feel it. Same with Vader in ROTJ. Anakin gets maimed and pushed away so fast, I am always like, "OK, whatever," because that's visually the way it's handled. Yoda jumps all over the place, but there again is no feeling of dread, no moment where you hold your breath. Nothing.

Now comes Episode III, in which the duel is supposed to be the ultimate culmination of the entire saga. Well, I don't care how long it will be or how flashy - there is no engaging narrative in the previous two films to build a solid story foundation for the final duel. In short, there is nothing there to get tense about, get scared about, or even get excited about. The duel I am sure will look awesome, but with no depth of story behind it, will it be boring? Will it have no emotional impact?

Your thoughts?

 

This duel is basically the set up and payoff for the entire saga from a storytelling standpoint. I cannot see how it will not deliver.

 

Well, every battle hasn't been as important to perhaps the entire galaxy as Episode II's. If they could've just stopped Dooku then & there who knows what could've happened. The duels weren't personal, but they were very important nonetheless.

And it set things perfectly up for the saga to continue, Anakins severed hand of course will not only impact him as a character but it's touching to finally come back to it when Luke does it again in RotJ.

We know Yoda can/will fight if necessary and not to mention it showed Anakin at this point literally throws his life on the line to save Obi-Wan (although it's his fault Obi-Wans there in the first place). Whereas in Episode III it'll be completely turned around.

I see no reason why the Episode III fight shouldn't be emotional, their relationship now already is more defined than Vaders/Lukes was at the stage of ESB so i don't see why people always bring that up (Vaders confession is what makes that scene really count - not the fight itself), and we still have 3/4 of an entire Episode to build on it.

We don't know why they will fight or how they will fight, but George has proven to be a master storyteller so why should we doubt him now ?

 

In the Prequel Trilogy so far, there has not been sufficient character development nor clearly paced narrative build to bring about such reactions.

Uff, I'm really sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more. Just to take one example, every duel has major implications for the galaxy.

How would Anakin Skywalker have developed if Qui-Gon Jinn had lived and become his master?

How would things have gone for Sidious and the Seperatists if Dooku was defeated or killed in the hanger bay?

As for Ep3...well, both McGregor and Christensen feel it's the best.

 

I think it will be the best. Many of the fans as have I been waiting for years to see the downfall of Anakin Skywalker, the deul with Obi-wan, and the final transformation to Darth Vader. I know Nick Gillard won't dissapoint.

 

I agree that the plot is not fully supported to 'this climax'.

It's in reverse. All of us grew up (most of us at least) with the OT, and then heard about 'the duel'. So, for us; watching EPIII, and anticipating the Duel, will be very cool. Although, for first-timers, 'our children'. It might not be as built up if they watch the films in order.

 

They definitly will live up, I have enjoyed the PT's so far and from what I know from the 3SA forum I dont think this one will disappoint. Even the most determinded PT basher will have dig deep to find someting to complain about. Cant really go into details cause of the whole NO spoiler thing.

Thats my ROTS gasher post for the day

 

Please someone that's pessimistic (spelling?) about this explain to me how this duel isn't built up enough through the course of the prequels ?

 

Obi_Frans,

Just a stab at it.

So, far... if you watch TPM without any knowlege of the other two films (a first time viewer)... you are kind of left thinking that this nice boy as grown up into a pretty skilled jedi, and then his mother is murdered, and he avenges her death (or murder a lot of individuals)... So, that leaves the EP3 to show us Anakin's downward spiral into Vader. It's left to EP3 to build up to the fight.

You have to think a little bit out of the box. Lucas says that the films are all part of a six-part film. So, for anyone who is new to the series, they will have no idea what happens at the end of ANH.

Just my 2 cents.

 

One reason for any perceived lack of suspense may be because we know Anakin, Obi-wan, and Yoda have to survive AOTC. We know they'll at least make it past the Tyrannus duel.

Although I did enjoy the PT duels.

I just hope there isn't someone in ROTS fighting with 2 double-lightsabers.

An added point, I don't like it when the briefest part of a movie when someone wields 2 swords is used to sell the movie, in the case of AOTC and The Return of the King.

 

nohandluke,

Great post. You are spot on. For me, no duel has topped the one in TESB which was epic. The duel between Maul and OW is pretty cool though.

 

No, I don't get it. All you're saying is "The duel hasn't been built up enough", but no one arguing this point gives a solid reason why. It's a totally innapropriate thing to say because three movies have been building up to this duel. Saying "Anakin only turns to the dark side in Episode III" doesn't cut it. That's kind of the point of the prequels, to show him as a good guy so that his turn in III is all the more shocking. Let me just break it down for you.

* From their first meeting there is a tension between Obi-Wan and Anakin. He doesn't believe Anakin should be trained, but he makes a promise to his dying master that he'll train him.

* Ten years later it looks like he's done a really good job of it, as Anakin is a highly formiddable Jedi. There is still tension between them, as Obi-Wan is a very stern master and Anakin is highly ambitious. Be that as it may, it's stated twice in the movie that Anakin sees Obi-Wan as a father, once would have been enough, but we get to hear it again just to emphasize that point. Because as you know from watching the OT, the most dramatic battles are between fater and son.

* In Episode 3 they will be shown to be good friends. But Anakin becomes overcome with greed and decides to turn against the Jedi.

If someone is to watch the prequels with no prior knowledge of what happens later in the story, they will be absolutely shocked at Anakin's turn, and the duel will personify this. Anakin will fight someone who he loved as a father. Even those of us who know the story already are going to feel that, over and over again each time we see it.

 

I think that there hasn't been enough build because everything in the PT has to be extrapolated and you have to fill in the gaps constantly in regard to the characters.

In the OT, we see every step of Luke's evolution, and there are motivators that take us into the next conflict. Vader and Ben's duel reveals a deep history between them, Vader kills Ben after it is revealed that Ben is his old mentor (pretty shocking), Luke witnesses this (more shocking), Vader hunts Luke and then Luke hunts Vader and so on until old Empy gets the shaft (literally).

With the PT, it's a constant imagination game. So much crucial character development is missing. We never see Anakin train, which I thought was something we needed to see. In fact, we never see a Jedi legitimately train period. We never see "the trials" although if the PT is supposedly about the Jedi as well as Anakin's fall, then I expect the trials would be important. I mean, they've been mentioned in both prequels already - but we'll never get to see them.

We have to assume that Anakin has been hanging out with Palpatine a lot during his training with Obi-Wan between TPM and AOTC b/c they're all buddy-buddy in AOTC, but there is no valid relationship construction there. It has to be taken for granted.

We have to assume that one man can cloud the minds of an entire Jedi Council and every other Jedi in the galaxy (even though Luke, one inexperienced youngling, in ESB gets dark side chills just standing by a cave), assume that the Jedi are negligent enough to not know and even refute that their records can be erased, and assume that at some point between TPM and AOTC, Sidious had the time to snatch former Jedi Dooku from the pale and whip him into shape as a Sith bad boy, even though by Jedi standards, he's WAY too old.

Qui-Gon Jinn as a whole character has to be taken for granted if Obi-Wan's line in ROTJ is to be believed: "Anakin was a good friend. When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot, but I was amazed at how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

But wait... It was Qui-gon who found the boy, Qui-Gon who insisted upon training him, Qui-Gon who offered to take it upon himself, and Qui-Gon who was the anti-council arrogant one. Obi-Wan protested the whole time and agreed with the council, which is entirely contrary to Alec Guinness' lines, UNLESS we once again extrapolate more meaning from Alec's lines. "Oh, well, he REALLY MEANT THIS."

Think about it. If the PT is taken as it stands, we never see Obi-Wan and Anakin as "good friends." Anakin is constantly peeing Obi-Wan off, they are always bickering, Anakin is hostile, and Obi-Wan didn't like Anakin from the moment he met him, and he certainly wasn't amazed at his Force potential, he was afraid of it, even calling it "dangerous."

You have to ASSUME there was a time when Anakin and Obi-Wan got along, even though Anakin continually complains in AOTC that Obi-Wan is constantly critical and holds him back. They are not friends by any stretch of the imagination.

And don't even get me started on the whole Master Syfideous or whatever his name was that supposedly ordered all the clones and died after he placed his order and the Jedi knew nothing and the cloners didn't know he was dead...I mean, I guess we assume that the cloners take on customers for gajillion dollar clone army orders without keeping any tabs on their buyer for almost a decade?! Guess that can be....ASSUMED!

We are forced to assume all this stuff to make the whole thing work. And that's what irks me. So much is just assumed that there comes a point when I ask myself, "How much more are we going to assume before we stop kidding ourselves and realize that a lot of this new story isn't working right?"

There was no time in the OT where we had to play make-believe to this degree and draw conclusions that weren't necessarily there. I think the only time I had to use my imagination in

 

All we see Han/Luke do is bicker & fight with each other, it's the moments where one's in trouble that we truly get a hint of their relationship (trench run, han getting captured).

Likewise, throughout Clones we see Obi-Wan and Anakin risking their lifes to make sure either one will not get hurt. Obi-wan jumps out of a window in the middle of Coruscant - knowing Anakin will come after him. Mace Windu gives Anakin "strict orders" to not go to Geonosis. Yet the second Anakin finds a loophole (through Padmes reasoning), he goes after him. Throughout the Battle after they contineosly help each other (Anakin on the beast picking him up, cutting each others bonds off) and then when Dooku is about to kill Obi-Wan, Anakin literally throws himself infront of him.

Okay so we've got that covered.

Anakin/Obi-Wan have a very tense relationship, Obi-wan never believed in Gui-Gons theory and Anakin knew this in TPM. Then, Gui-Gon chose to take Anakin as his Padawan, putting Obi-wan aside. Anakin hears Obi-Wan telling GuiGon he's dangerous and they even share a mean look after.

Yes Gui-Gon made Obi-Wan promise to train Anakin. But by accepting this before having the counsels approval AND before knowing he had been promoteed AND then straght up telling Yoda he'll defy him if he must - he HAS taken it upon himself to train the boy. Mind you this is the chosen one we're talking about, and Obi-Wan is a rookie Knight. Any normal person would let the council handle this.

Anakin left Tatooine thinking he would become a Jedi, yet at the end - he has been rejected by the council and the only person who cared for him had been killed. We see a 9-year-old who has NO idea what's going to happen to him - and he clings to Obi-Wan who tells him he'll train him.

ALL of that is seen in the movie, okay so moving on now.

Clones opens up with Anakin/Obi-Wan Literally bickering like Friends do - more to the point, what Han/Luke do throughout the movie. We see Anakin is willing to let Obi-Wan know he has feelings that are...unjedi-like and that are even forbidden.

They share a joke with each other and Anakin opens up to him. Anakin later gets out of bounds when Padme gets involved but Obi-Wan puts him in his place, as much as they are friends he is still his "master".

Not long after we see Anakin looking out over Coruscant, troubled. Obi-Wan immediately recognizes AND knows what is going on, once again - Anakin is willing to confide in him and tell him everything hes feeling without a single hint of hesitation. They differ on politics but that's not THAT serious at this point (that'll come in ROTS, no doubt). Anakin/Obi-Wan in the Coruscant chase goes without saying, they literally know each others strentghs & weaknesses and they even tell us this.

That alone shows you they definitely have a close and friendly (exceptionally friendly considering they're Jedi) relationship, Anakin even tells Obiwan he thinks of him as a father.

Anakin is annoyed by Obiwan as a mentor, but then again - aren't we ALL often annoyed by our fathers/father-figures?. At this point its just whining and Anakin knows this (as is seen when Padme gives him advice).

When they part, thats when everything gets really interesting. Right before they leave, Obiwan manages to "annoy" Anakin by once again putting him in his place, reminding him that this isn't a date he's going on, almost literally "holding him back".

But of course, that point is lost on Anakin and he/Padme still fall in love.

Obi-Wan is visually worried when he finds out ANakin isn't on Naboo and Through the loss of his mother, every emotion in Anakins mind (anger, confusion, sadness)is magnified immensely, including his annoyance with Obi-Wan.

Yet, not minutes later - we see how he's visually shocked when something seems to happen to Obi-Wan on the holo. He defies the council (much like Luke did in Empire) and goes off to save Kenobi.

Can we still agree at this point in my lenghty essay that everything i mentioned is NOT assumed but seen in the movie ? and that t

 

As for the rest, Anakin/Palpatine isn't a complex relationship.

Palpatine tells Anakin what he wants to hear, with now & then slipping in things that he really shouldn't hear.

All we have to know is why Anakin "likes" Palpatine, and we do. All we have to know is that somehow, Anakin has some pretty twisted vies on the Republic, and we will find out how. Whereas Obi-Wan is very very very scarce with the compliments. Palpatine showers Anakin with them, he is truly the Jedi's opposite (not even mentioning that he's a sith) when it comes to Anakins relationship with him & them.

That is all we need to know for now, that Anakin trusts in him and likes him. We never see why Vader follows chose to be Palpatines dog, we just ASSUME the Emperor is stronger than him (likewise with vader/tarkin). Now we see how that relationship started (notice that in the OT, Obi-wan is very different with Luke AND Palpatine is VERY different with Anakin/Vader).

We never even know how Darth Vader got in that suit, we all just assume something terrible happened to him (not anymore after ROTS though), we don't know how the Empire ever started - we all assume Palpatine just took it by force (no more assuming after these movies though) and i could go on.

We don't have to assume anything about Sifo-Dyas, we just have to think about it and it'll make sense. There's the true difference between the PT & OT, the PT requires you to think.

We don't have to assume about why Palpatine is able to sit in front of the Jedi like that, everybody keeps on telling us that the Jedi are blinded.

And ofcourse, you're making assumptions about something that has yet to be finished (ROTS).

No pun intended, but You assume too much..

 

Vader kills Ben after it is revealed that Ben is his old mentor (pretty shocking)

You mean when Ben tells Luke early in the film that ?Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil??. That?s not shocking, and doesn?t have a lot do to with the duel. Regardless, the ANH duel is between a man and his former pupil, and the EP3 duel will be the same. The difference is that the EP3 has three movies build up towards it.

With the PT, it's a constant imagination game. So much crucial character development is missing. We never see Anakin train, which I thought was something we needed to see. In fact, we never see a Jedi legitimately train period. We never see "the trials" although if the PT is supposedly about the Jedi as well as Anakin's fall, then I expect the trials would be important. I mean, they've been mentioned in both prequels already - but we'll never get to see them.

No, I still don?t get it. We know that Obi-Wan has been training Anakin. We know Anakin is well trained.

Why is seeing the trails so important? We saw Anakin being tested to be a Jedi in TPM, I?d expect it to be something boring like that. Seriously, I?d rather see the limited film time spent showing Anakin and Obi-Wan in ?real life? situations, like the speeder chase (the average day in the life of a Jedi). Later on in the story we get to see Yoda train Luke, which will fill in any gaps over how Jedi get trained. However, I still don?t see what that has to do with building up to a lightsaber duel.

We have to assume that Anakin has been hanging out with Palpatine a lot during his training with Obi-Wan between TPM and AOTC b/c they're all buddy-buddy in AOTC, but there is no valid relationship construction there. It has to be taken for granted.


Anakin is a Jedi Padawan, Palpatine is the Supreme Chancellor of the Galaxy. Their relationship was about as inferred as it could be. Apart from dialogue throughout the film that implied their connection, they were given a private scene together. Seriously, what does ?Valid relationship construction? even mean, and what does it have to do with anticipation of lightsaber duels?

We have to assume that one man can cloud the minds of an entire Jedi Council and every other Jedi in the galaxy (even though Luke, one inexperienced youngling, in ESB gets dark side chills just standing by a cave), assume that the Jedi are negligent enough to not know and even refute that their records can be erased, and assume that at some point between TPM and AOTC, Sidious had the time to snatch former Jedi Dooku from the pale and whip him into shape as a Sith bad boy, even though by Jedi standards, he's WAY too old.

You know, come to think of it, I?m pretty sure this post of yours has a lot less to do with lightsaber duels that you?d have us believe. You just want to slam the prequels because they aren?t what you wanted.

You have to ASSUME there was a time when Anakin and Obi-Wan got along

Anakin and Obi-Wan got along while ?

At Qui-Gons funeral. ?You will be a Jedi, I promise?
In the elevator up to Padmes apartment. ?It was me who rescued you from that nightmare, remember Master??
At night when they were guarding Padme. ?Dreams pass in time?
During the speeder chase. ?Sorry Master, I forgot you don?t like flying?
In the Nightclub ?Don?t say that, Master. You?re the closest thing I have to a father?
Being sent off to Naboo. ?May the Force be with you, Master?
On Tatooine. ?He?s like my father!..?
On Geonosis. ?Come to your senses! What would Padme do if she were in your place??
In Episode III. ??????

Obi_Frans makes a good point about Han and Luke. Anakin and Obi-Wan have a very similar relationship.

No one has to assume anything. Anakin and Obi-Wan have been friends for 13 years, and love each other. It?s not implied, it?s implicitly stated.

And don't even get me started on the whole Master Syfideous or whatever his name was that supposedly ordered all the clones and died after he placed his order and the Jedi knew nothing and the c

 

Yes - that is exactly what I was saying. The lightsaber duels are missing the development of a good story - and let me clarify on this point.

I think the prequel films story skeletons have great potential, but I feel that in many instances, what parts of those story frames they choose to show are not the parts that contribute best to the evolution of the drama.

For example, rather than use the engaging and interesting scenes that explore Anakin and Padme's relationship in AOTC (which hit the cutting room floor), Lucas chooses to use the most cliche and wincing sequences, like rolling around in the grass and such. I would have completely bought the evolution of that relationship had the deleted scenes been inserted rather than the existing ones. On the commentary for the scenes, Lucas says continually, (paraphrasing) "It was interesting character stuff, but it slowed the film down."

Well, a romance depends entirely on good character development. The information in those scenes was information that needed to be there. Wihtout it, it feels like Padme is rational and composed and then she's just proclaiming her love out of the blue for him before the Arena scene. It feels contrived without those other scenes in place. Hence, the story potential (which was high) is compromised by these cuts.

Why do we not see Anakin's slaughter of the sand people? It's what we have been hearing about for years - his cold, evil side that kills with devilish efficiency. I was waiting to see this - the moment that sends him over the edge - but we cut to Yoda and Windu hanging out in the Jedi steam room. You could argue that it makes Anakin's confession to Padme in the workshop more dramatic (but Hayden's acting in that sequence is so powerful and exemplary that I really think it would have been twice as powerful to have seen it and then know that Padme does not know only to have Anakin confess it to her through his emotional torment). For that moment, having the audience one step ahead of Padme would have added tension to the scene.

And those deleted moments we can appreciate are not put back into the continuity of the film. Instead, Lucas opts to give us things like an extra ten minutes of pod race and sparks on Jango Fett's jetpack rather than watch as a young Anakin uncontrollably wails on Greedo, which would contribute to his overall story arch in the long run, adding fuel to the fire for the inevitable rise of Vader.

I really do hope that III's inclusion into the story validates all of the choices in I an II and brings them into focus. As it stands right now, though, for me there is something lacking.

No, I am not some mindless prequel hater. If I was, I wouldn't do this much thinking about it, nor would I spend the time to try and explain my position and share my feelings with those that I know will disagree. I am seeking a dialogue which I thank you for providing me, and I hope that we can continue to have this discourse while agreeing to disagree. I respect all opinions and have an interest in hearing all perspectives, otherwise I wouldn't even be here.

Sincerest regards - nohandluke

 

You just completely lost me (and your whole point with this thread).

What do Padme/Anakin have to due with the impending duel ??

I'll still counter it though, the Picnic shows us a couple of VERY interesting things. Most importantly, Anakins ignorance on the Republic system - that remark he makes is downright frightening, he might play it off as a joke, but it's a very twisted thought that exists in his head.

Second of all, it shows Anakin/Padme having fun - here we have a Jedi who feels "held back" and a politican who's constantly undergoing threats and whatnot. Yet when they're together, they just have downright fun. Something we don't see very often in this saga, the family scenes were nice - but the picnic scene not only makes it unneccessary, it tells us something else (Anakins thought) which will be more important than anything extra in the family scene.

I can't believe you don't get why we didn't see the slaughter, why SHOULD we see the slaughter ?? He's not only confessing to Padme, he's confessing to the viewer that he did a horrible thing. We find out with Padme what he's done and at the same moment - we have to make a choice, will we forgive him & try to help him or just give up.

PLUS, it's not all about the killings. It's about Anakin losing himself to his anger, it's about the Dark Side (the Vader in him) taking control and he can't fight it for a while.

Young Anakin is pure, this is an innocent boy. We don't see Vader in Hope saving a puppy - so to foreshadow his ultimate redemption in RotJ. That's why we have the Tusken-slaughter, it builds up each movie.

And i never called you a prequel-hater, it's just that you haven't backed up why you think THE DUEL won't work.

In fact, with that last point you COMPLETELY ignored it.

But out of sheer curiosity, you seem to think there's no Obi/Ani dynamic. You seem to think there's no Ani/Padme dynamic, Ani/Palpy...so what do you like about these films ??

 

Well,

I like a lot of things actually. I loved the relationship between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon as a Jedi Team, even though as stated before, I found Qui-Gon's presence confusing in relation to the OT.

The Jedi saber fights in TPM were exemplary.

I loved Anakin's farewell to his mother, and the entire AOTC subplot involving Anakin's search for his mom through his breakdown in the workshop. Yes, I would like to have seen the slaughter, but it does not negate my liking for what has been achieved there as it stands.

I like many of the conversations between some pairs of characters - Qui-Gon dealing with Watto, Anakin and Padme's conversation at the waterfall (I dislike the subsequent grass-rolling, but not the conversation), Obi-Wan's encounters with Jet Dexter or whatever his name is, his encounter with Jango, and especially his confrontation with Dooku.

And of course, the deleted AOTC Anakin/Padme scenes are top notch in my book.

And how this all still relates to the III duel is that people began asking me what elements of the story I thought were lacking, requests to explain my comments about a lack of story foundation, so I took the long way around and explained myself in full on all these story issues, because the duel is the culmination of the effects of many of these subplots and hence, they all have validity in relation to the final fight.

 

But dude, in your last two posts you've had nothing to say about Obi-Wan. The duel is between Anakin and Obi-Wan, not Anakin and Padme. Padme is obviously a crucial peice in Anakin's downfall, and the audience doesn't quite know why yet. I just don't think it's fair to judge how AotC shows Anakin's progression to the dark side if no one really knows how Anakin ends up getting there. Maybe EP3 will change alot of peoples minds about how AotC handled things. But that's not the point. We're talking about a lightsaber duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan. You are saying that this duel won't hold the weight of those that we saw in the OT. I, and others, strongly disagree and provide good points as to why a duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin in EP3 would be as good as, if not better, than those it the OT. Then you just give us stuff about the romance in AotC. It's a bit of a tangent, don't you think?

 

Expectations surrounding the Kenobi-Skywalker standoff in III is/has been/will be a real problem.

Basically, fans who dug the story early have been wanting to see this since 1977.

Very hard to deliver under those conditions.

{doing his best to lower his expectations}

 

This duel has to live up the unrealistic expectations heaped on it. Not only is it the duel that falls in the very center of the saga it is the results of this duel that will determine the events of the next three films.

In short: If the duel fails the movie fails and if the movie fails the saga fails.

That isn't going to happen. This is obviously the movie that George Lucas really wanted to make and it's obvious that everyone involved from Lucas, Gillard, Macgregor and Christensen wants to make this last duel a special one.

In some ways I feel sorry for the duel in ANH, it's really gonna look like a sack of crap sandwhiched in between RotS and ESB's wonderful duels.

As far as the PT goes this duel will certainly be the most emotional, observe:

Episode 1: The duel of the fates, very exciting on a purely visceral level. It was long, fast paced and exciting with an emotional climax when Qui-Gon meets his brave end.

But the fight does ring a little hollow. There's nothing really personal between Maul and the Jedi until the very end. Maul just wants to kill Jedi, any Jedi, those are the Jedi that happen to be there.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan fight Maul to protect the Queen but beyond that it ain't personal. It only gets personal when Qui-Gon falls and Obi-Wan gets peeved.

The stakes in this battle are merely the lives of the heroes and the heroes have spent the whole movie selflessly risking themselves so this is in character.

Episode II: Three saber battles really.

Obi-Wan short and sweet and taken down through precision and strategy rather than brute Force.

Anakin taken down because he fought like a bonehead.

Basically no real emotional investment in the fight. Sure Anakin is mad at Dooku for all the Jedi killed but to Dooku the Jedi are nothing but a distraction from escaping.

Yoda shows up and the stakes go up a little as it then turns into a student wanting to show his teacher how tough he is, which is a nice foreshadowing for RotS.

Yoda fighting sure gets a cheer from the audience. The novelty is where most of the emotion from the fight comes from. It's so absurd that it's both comical but compelling. It's not as emotionally hollow as the Episode 1 duel but it's not completely satsifying. It's a novelty act.

Revenge of the Sith though is the fight between a father and his beloved son. Teacher and student, old lion vs young lion. It's the battle royale where sabers fists and pure force fury will be tossed at each other.

Besides can you imagine the conversation they have during the fight? Anakin letting out all the hurt and isolation and cutting barbs he's been repressing for over a decade and Obi-Wan trying to save this crazy kid that he loves like a son but being forced to kill him?

It'll be a Hell of an adrenal, emotional and thematic rush!

This is the one fight that can't disappoint! It can't!

 

I don't care what anyone says, the first time I saw the lightsaber duel between Obi Won and Vader, it was more of an oddity than anything else. The novelty of the lightsabre in general, was very similar to the novelty of the duel sabre, and hyperkinetic pace of the Duel of Fates.

Darth Vader in "Hope" was nothing more than an agent of evil, looking for some stolen plans. Sure he struck down the dude Luke had met just a little while ago, and Ben was all he had at the time, but the relationship between Obi Won and Luke is truly built after Obi Won's supposed demise.

The Duel in Episode V carried substantially more weight that that of Episode VI. From the moment Luke ignites his sabre, everything in the OT changes, and changes again with the revelation. The duel in VI is good, and I love ROTJ, but the duel in V is my favorite of the OT.

In the PT, the duels have built from the short skirmish between Qui Gon and the Phantom Menace to the (I don't care what anyone says) supurb payoff of at the end of EP1, to a 0-2-1 upset of the Jedi in EP2. The longest duel committed to film that awaits us will be as good as it can be.

 

My favorite duel is the SW saga so far is Episode 4. That duel between Obi and Vader was dated true but it told a wonderful story and while I love the duel in Episode 1 (mostly due to Darth Maul) it didn't tell a story. If an action sequence can tell a story then the action no matter how bad it is can be overlooked .

If Episode 3 duel between Anakin and Obi-1 can deliver on the atory part as well as the action then it will surpass ANH but until then Episode 4 owns all!

 

"while I love the duel in Episode 1 (mostly due to Darth Maul) it didn't tell a story"

It doesn't tell a story in the way Obi/Vader told us how they were once master/apprentice, that is true.

But it shows us some very interesting things:

1. Sith are badass, 1 Sith taking on 2 Jedi and even beating them at one point is more than enough to show us they are not to be taken lightly. It shows us how raw their power is.

2. Jedi can be killed, of course Gui-Gon told us this on Tatooine but now we're shown. We see even Jedi can get themselfs way over their heads (Obi-wan charging Maul) and they're anything but superheros.

3. Power doesn't necessary win a battle, Maul's overconfidence shows us the darksides/siths fundemental flaw - they think Power is the end to their means and it makes them overconfident. Wether its Maul gloating down on Obiwan/Dooku thinking he was stronger than Yoda/Vader thinking Kenobi was bluffing/Palpatine thinking Anakin was dead etc etc.

4. The bond between a Jedi Master/Apprentice, more to the point - it shows us how they're supposed to work together and the danger of them breaking up (although Clones does this even better).

5. It ultimately decides who Anakins Master will be, makes you wonder how different it would've been had Kenobi died & Gui-Gon lived. Or what if Maul killed them both and went after the Queen ?