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PT Were Obi-Wan and Anakin ever friends?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Garrett Atkins, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Luke and he is extremely brave in a certain kind of way.

    But you can't expect everyone to act like him. Obi-Wan had good reasons for why he didn't attempt to turn Vader back to the light.
     
  2. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    And he was proven wrong in the end.
     
  3. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Yup - thank goodness. But good men are allowed to be wrong.
     
  4. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Apparently not! Lack of omniscience is now a sign of evil (or at the very least of inexcusable stupidity) [face_worried]
     
    lbr789 likes this.
  5. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    On the question of whether Obi-Wan and Anakin were shown to be friends, I think it's obvious from ROTS that something changed in their relationship after AOTC. They're definitely friends and (broadly) equals in the beginning of ROTS. This was just a snapshot of the tail-end of this stage in their lives, but it's clearly recognisable as a friendship. They care for each other fundamentally. They've both matured a great deal since their dysfunctional Master/Apprentice relationship ended.

    There are still tensions in their relationship, though these are probably more evident in the novelisation than the film. One thing in the novelisation that is also probably implied in the film is the way Anakin feels a degree of outrage at Obi-Wan for whatever the Jedi Council does, Obi-Wan being a member of the council. As Palpatine encourages his distrust of the Jedi Order and Council, Anakin starts to see Obi-Wan as part of the establishment again, no longer on his side as much as he should be. Between the beginning of the JC/Chancellor intrigue and the parting of ways before the Utapau invasion, the old resentments come to the fore.

    For his part, Obi-Wan tries to disassociate himself from the Council's decision to use Anakin as their mole in the executive branch. I got a real vibe of his affection for Anakin. A cold, heartless ******* he is not.

    So, yeah. In general, the relationship between these two was part of what made ROTS what it was.

    No. Obi-Wan is the ultimate embodiment of evil.

    No-one should turn to him for help or advice, least of all Luke. He should have paid more attention to Palpatine in the Death Star throne room than he did to Obi-Wan.

    It's all Obi-Wan's fault. And I really mean all of it.

    /jk
     
    Eryndil likes this.
  6. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    What would you call someone who saved your ass ten times?
     
  7. Garrett Atkins

    Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 11, 2013
    But it's not shown, it's told.
     
  8. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    :p
     
  9. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    It was shown. Anakin saves Obi-Wan from the buzz droids out in the space battle. He also carries Obi-Wan's prone body down an elevator shaft.
     
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  10. Garrett Atkins

    Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Yeah, because they're allies, not friends. An example of bactracking AOTC. Anakin is angry at Obi-Wan the rest of the movie.
     
  11. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    No. If he was simply an ally, Anakin would follow Obi-Wan's order to leave him to the buzz droids, just like he follows Obi-Wan's order to leave the clone pilots to their brutal dogfight.

    Instead, he declares that he won't leave Obi-Wan behind and pulls crazy stunts to scrape the buzz droids off Obi-Wan's fighter.

    If Obi-Wan was simply an ally, to be discarded when they become too cumbersome, Anakin would follow Palpatine's advice and leave Obi-Wan behind. He doesn't do this for the obvious reason that he's attached to Obi-Wan.
     
  12. Garrett Atkins

    Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 11, 2013
    If Anakin were smart, he'd question Palpatine's advice. :rolleyes:
     
  13. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Flat out rejecting it sounds about right.

    If you're referring to something else, there are plenty of other threads for that.
     
  14. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    In Revenge of the Sith, they are certainly friends. "I'm not leaving without you master," is said with the same determination that Anakin has at Shmi's grave when he tells her he "won't fail again." Their exchange before Obi-Wan heads off to Utapau shows how much affection they have for each other as well- we had not seen anything in Anakin's character before that moment in time (continuity wise, in TCW and films) that would lead us to believe that he would genuinely apologize for his actions to anyone outside of Padme. In turn, Obi-Wan's response to that apology exhibits how deeply he cares for his friend, as well- by telling him he is a "greater Jedi" than he could ever be, he is coming full circle from comments like "You will learn your place, young one" and "Only in your mind, my very young apprentice" from AOTC.

    All this said, when Anakin screams "I hate you," it sounds a lot like his rant from AOTC at the Lars homestead- deep down, there is still resentment, but that is a result of Anakin's uncompromising self-esteem and, many would say, "cockiness" from enduring his time as a Padawan, believing himself to be "ahead" of his master in many ways.

    Great question, good thread as well.
     
  15. leiajedi

    leiajedi Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2015
    I think they weren't friends at first but during clone wars and first half of revenge of the sith.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  16. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    More time together in TPM was needed.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Which movie? In AOTC, Anakin is only angry at Obi-wan for being overly critical of him and for not doing a better job of training him, because he did what he did to the Tuskens. But he stops being angry when he finds out Obi-wan is in danger and tells Padme that he wants to help, but doesn't want to get in trouble and put her in danger. In ROTS, Anakin isn't angry at Obi-wan until he sees him on Mustafar and thinks that he brainwashed her into turning against him.

    That and the fact that Obi-wan just butchered him, which would make you hate anyone that did that to you. He didn't think that Obi-wan would do such a thing to him, which showed him to be a hypocrite and a right bastard.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  18. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Yes, I agree the PT did a very poor job indeed of conveying the friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan. It reads much more like a one-sided rivalry. A shame.
     
  19. only one kenobi

    only one kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Isn't there just a little tiny bit of context taken out of this description? You think Anakin was Obi-Wan's friend at this point except for Obi-Wan having "butchered" him (the hypocrite, the bastard!)? Poor little Anakin, minding his own business and that nasty brute Obi-Wan comes along and "butchers" him?

    I can see your point, I mean what's the poor guy done to deserve this horrid treatment? He's throttled his wife a little. He's cut down a few Jedi in the Temple, and some of them were children, saved Palpatine from that dastardly Mace and his treason and spent the last few minutes coming inadvertently close to cutting Obi-Wan into tiny pieces but....that hypocrite Obi-Wan :rolleyes:
     
  20. L110

    L110 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Yes they were and the films made it perfectly clear.
     
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  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    That's what points of view are. Anakin sees what he is doing as the good for everyone, whether they like it or not. He sees what Padme and Obi-wan said and did to him as a betrayal, because they didn't support him. They were his family and they betrayed him. Hence he choked Padme for betraying him by bringing Obi-wan to kill him, and then Obi-wan betrays him by slicing him up and leaving him to die.
     
  22. only one kenobi

    only one kenobi Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 18, 2012
    Wait...what?! Anakin thinks choking Padmé is good for her? Trying to kill Obi-Wan is what he needs for his own good? Killed the younglings because that was in their best interests as far as he could see? In what way does Anakin give a flying fig about "the good for everyone"? I don't think that's even implied in the movies?
     
  23. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    i think they became friends during the clone wars. i think part of that was already there as we first see them in the elevator in ATOC.
     
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  24. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    No, attacking his friends is more of Anakin taking out his anger on them for not going along with what he is doing. He feels that taking out the Jedi Order was the right thing, since as he said, "They were taking over." The Jedi Order was going to overthrow Palpatine and continue to repeat the same old crap that was destroying the Republic. In eliminating the Jedi Order, he is removing not only those who would destroy him, but would block the path to a peaceful new order. He eliminated the Confederacy leadership to prevent them from starting another war and thus end the current one. Anakin believes that he is doing the right thing, even though he knows that he is wrong. But more and more he is believing that it is right, that is why he tells Padme that they can take out Palpatine and rule the galaxy together, the way it should be run.
     
  25. only one kenobi

    only one kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2012

    Except...Anakin knows that's complete hog-wash. e knows that Palpatine has been behind the war all along. The only reason he agrees to serve Palpatine is to gain the secret of how to save Padme from "certain death"...he doesn't believe any of that other rubbish....he doesn't care about any of that. He isn't thinking of the "greater good", it is not in any way a motivation for him. We know what his motivation is.