PT Were Obi-Wan and Anakin ever friends?

Anakin and Obi-Wan were friends. They would give their lives for each other. They're friendship isn't displayed as well as it could've been, but at the end of the day they aren't enemies, nor are they just doing their duty because they have to (at least until the end of RotS) they do have a genuine, mutual connection and fondness.

 

Lucas was facing a conundrum. Either he made Anakin too good, which would have made his turn unbelievable — or he made him too bad, which would go against Obi-Wan's assessment of him in ANH. He needed Anakin to be this overconfident, impatient and arrogant man that would eventually turn on his friends. You can't have someone who is too buddy buddy with his colleagues, that one day would turn on them, without a little tension. There had to be years of this kind of tension, too. Grudges and jealousy was pretty much the reason why he turned, and this was definitely hinted at in ANH, so I don't know why people are surprised to see that this is what played out in the Prequels.

Granted, Lucas tried to cram this in three films, which we knew is all he had. But if it wasn't for the lazy directing, unrefined script, lousy editing, and piss poor acting in certain scenes, some disappointed people would have accepted these films as master pieces.

 

tcw.

 

People say that Anakin and Obi-Wan don't seem like friends or brothers, but I have a brother, and we fought and argued all the time. Especially because one of us was older and had more authority - this creates more conflict. The story of the PT was Anakin's fall, so the more negative aspects of his personality are going to be showcased. Anakin's frustration with Obi-Wan is more a projection of his frustration with the order as a whole.

In addition to the elevator scene, Anakin trusts Obi-Wan enough to confide in him about his dreams. And their relationship develops - we don't see the Clone Wars in the movies but we see in ROTS how much their relationship has grown - they both trust each other much more, and see each other as equals. And they don't say it - we see it through their interactions.

I do understand though, why some people think it isn't shoe well enough and would prefer more. What they did show just worked for me.

 

They were friends, and for me it was adequately shown. Which is not to say it couldn't have been done BETTER, but saying they never appeared friends at all seems to be missing the point somewhat for me.

 

I'd say that....showing brief allusions to their friendship and accepting that as adequate is missing the point. That "it could have been done BETTER"....is the point that most people are making.

 

I think once Obi-Wan and Anakin were no longer master and pupil, they became fast friends. I guess it's one of those things where they would've been better off as friends rather than a master/apprentice status. Imagine an alternate reality where Qui-Gon was Anakin's master and Obi-Wan had his own apprentice.

 

In the EU, they are heading that way even before Anakin's promotion - though Yoda recommends against doing this.

The Clone Wars: Wild Space, right after Geonosis:

​

"Obi-Wan."​

Chilled by the grimness in Yoda's voice, he turned. "Yes, Master?"​

Yoda's stare was bleak. "Great are the challenges your Padawan will face. To be his friend your heart will urge you. But Obi-Wan, a mistake that would be. A friend young Skywalker does not need. A Master he needs, and a Master you must be."​

"I understand," Obi-Wan replied, and took his leave. But as he made his long way to the Halls of Healing, he realised it wasn't advice he was prepared to take.​

For ten years I have been a Master to Anakin, and all that got me was defiance. The more I criticize him, the more he turns away. The more I withdraw, the angrier he becomes. More criticism, more emotional distance, isn't the answer. He's not a typical Jedi. He never has been. Yet I have tried to turn him into one. I've tried to contain him. Control him. For his own good, it's true … but even so. If he's to be a Jedi Knight soon, that has to end.​

Besides. With the struggle of physical rehabilitation before him … with the death of his dreams about Padmé to come … with the crushing, terrible loss of his mother to face … the only thing Anakin needed now was a friend.​

 

What makes me sad is that he thought that there was no turning back with Vader. Obi wan refused to believe that anakin isn't lost. That its not just Vader now.
Luke believed that there still good left in he's father while obi wan thought that anakin was lost forever.
He wanted Luke to kill Vader. In the Yoda and obi wan where wrong.
I mean he spoke quite bitterly about anakin in conversation with luke.


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I wonder if anakins and obi wans bond improved due to anakin also having ashoka as a padawan himself.
Plus the war might have strengthen their bond. And the fact that they were more on equal footing as well.

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Agree with you
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Obi-Wan showed he could be pretty sneaky IMO, he's just a good guy too so it's harder to think of him like that

I do agree though that he wasn't deceiving Luke with the friend statement.

 

Anakin having a padawan definitely strengthened there bond per the TCW. It made Anakin realizes just how much of a tough time Obi-wan had it with him. There are a couple of great lines of dialogue where Obi-wan teases Anakin about it later in seasons.

 

I think anakin was put in obi wans shoes. He learned that it can be hard having a padawan. Although I think he treated ashoka the way he wanted to be treated by he's master that is obi wan.

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Well in the TCW movie he flat out tells Ashoka she would have never made it as Obi-wans padawan but she would as his.

 

I think they were friends, yes. Was it shown enough, no, but it was there.

 

Yeah I know that bit. I've seen the tcw movie. It make sense as ashoka was somewhat similar to anakin personality wise.


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I think this is pretty accurate. Frankly, it's why watching TCW at least partially redeemed the films for me. I saw a version of Anakin who wasn't a complete jerk all the time. I don't know if it was George or Hayden, but film Anakin was terrible. In TCW, we see a compassionate Anakin, but as the series goes on, we see him fall more and more under of Palpatine/Sideous, until by the end, we can see him falling as he does in ROTS. I'm left feeling like I wish Matt Lanter had played Anakin in the films. I feel a little bad saying that, because is think Hayden did seem to want to embrace the role. I don't know if he lacked what it took for the role, or if George, notorious for NOT being an actors' director, couldn't guide him. I also always felt like he was too physically small for the role.

 

Didn't Vader say in ROTJ that "Obi-Wan once thought as you did" in regards to Luke? Obi tried but not as good as it could have been.

 

agree though

 

Anakin doesn't really trust Obi-wan as we are led to believe, especially after his mother's death. Anakin doesn't confide in Obi-wan anymore on a lot of things such as how he massacred a village full of sandpeople (he only told Padme and PalpSidious), that he married Padme and got her pregnant, or that he's having visions of Padme dying for fear that Obi-wan will give him the same advice that led to his mother's death. As for Obi-wan, he doesn't trust Anakin enough to let him be alone which is why he voiced his objections to Yoda and Mace about giving Anakin his first solo assignment and we see later on that Obi-wan was right. I see Anakin/Obi-wan's relationship as being akin to the movie, "The Defiant Ones" where 2 men are shackled together against their will and are forced to work together but in this case, metaphorically since they've been put together due to Qui-Gon's dying wish.

 

Funny, because the films don't give that impression. Obi-wan didn't think Anakin could handle being alone because of his feelings for Padme, which he could see a mile away. Just the way he behaved yesterday was proof of that. That's why he voiced his concerns. As to not telling Obi-wan about the Tuskens, he didn't do so because he would be in trouble if he told any Jedi about it. He doesn't tell him about his visions because he wants someone more knowledgeable in the Force which Obi-wan is not. That's why he went to Yoda about his vision. He doesn't go back to Obi-wan because he doesn't think that he can help him and because of what happened in the Council chambers.

But there is still a strong bond of friendship between them.

 

Anakin stops relying on Obi-Wan personally but only because he's having a lot of trouble in general with the Jedi Order as a body and as a concept, and for better or worse Obi-Wan is basically the quintessential Jedi, and in any case (again, rightly or wrongly) pretty much goes along with the Council on every call they make whether or not he personally agrees with it, and Anakin knows it. There also seems a bit of an element of Anakin feeling he's 'outgrown' Obi-Wan and is the more powerful of the two (possibly correctly in terms of raw power, though there's more than power levels to being a Jedi, which he never truly understood), hence Obi's being on the Council and a recognised Master whilst Anakin was denied the rank and only got the position because of Palps' pulling of strings would have rankled on a personal level. They were still good friends, Anakin wanted to go along on the Grievous hunt, but as all friendships do it waxed and waned and they went through a rough patch or two, with very poor timing in this case. As with everything, Palpatine has Anakin dancing to his tune like a wrinkly evil Pied Piper and deliberately misleading him down a dangerous path.

I would also say that where Anakin maybe felt Obi-Wan just wouldn't understand him, he wasn't necessarily wrong in that guess. Which isn't necessarily the fault of either but they were pretty fundamentally different people in some crucial ways.

 

It irks me when people bring this up. It was pretty much a minor line in the original film, and the entirety of the prequel trilogy doesn't really hinge on it. Do they need more buddy buddy moments? Not really. That's not really the point of it all. Besides, we get moments interspersed throughout Episode 2 and 3 that show that side to their character. Did we need more of those moments? Not really. If that was what some people wanted out of the films, that's one thing and its okay to be disappointed, but that's not really a valid criticism of the films themselves. (This last part was an aside on my part and doesn't really have bearing on the original topic maybe.)

 

The prequels show their friendship at acceptable standards for the story. In my opinion, it works well enough for me to understand the fact that they're friends. I mean, I don't think there is any reason for not really seeing they're friends. Obi-Wan even proclaims he loved Anakin... and apart from that, the films do show they have a genuine mutual fondness and connection.