Discussions Were the Jedi wiping themselves out through genetics?

My question stems from what we learned of the force in the prequels. In Episode 1 we are told of midi-chlorians and their relationship to a force user. They test children and those with a high enough count warrant training. OK, so now it is a scientific answer rather than a mystical one i.e. (if you have this genetic anomaly you get to use the force and be a Jedi). So it seems to me that from this answer that the Jedi taking children off to train, and not allowing them to have relationships (and procreate) is ultimately self defeating. I mean I realize it is an enormous galaxy but with their Jedi code aren't they essentially breeding out the Jedi gene? Thoughts?

 

I wouldn't say they're breeding out the gene necessarily, but they're certainly limiting the pool of possible candidates by only pulling random children who happen to have a high midichlorian count. It seems like the Jedi decided it was safer to limit emotional attachment than to limit their own numbers from Jedi procreation. But in the New Republic era, we of course see Luke marry and have Ben who's a Jedi, and Leia and Han have 3 children and a grandchild who are all force sensitive, so maybe Luke decided to alter the Jedi Code to kind of counter the problem you've pointed out.

 

Ugh...I won't even vent on how much I absolutely detest the notion of midi-chlorians. I hate the concept to my absolute core.

But to answer your question - I think there is an implication that non-Force users give birth to Force users. So it doesn't take a Jedi and a Jedi or a Jedi and a Non-Jedi to have a baby with some potential. It could be the equivalent of the X-gene in X-Men. Non-mutants give birth to mutants often. So even if they blocked every Jedi from procreating, there are still "normals" that will give birth to children the Jedi can later steal and rob them of any childhood.

 

Yeah I thought about the whole recessive gene thing being passed down, like a red head or X-man, but still don't you think that allowing the Jedi to procreate would proliferate the gene even more? I understand it is a big galaxy so it might not really matter I just recalled how it was stated that there were so few (relatively speaking) Jedi in the galaxy, and it seems their own code helped that along in some way. Thanks for the reply

 

They tested Anakin because the Force was unusually strong with him.

What specific anomaly? Every single living being has midi-chlorians. And what do you mean with "now it is a scientific answer"? Answer to what?

There is no "Jedi gene".

 

When they said that is is some kind of organism in your blood then yeah it seems that it is some kind of inherited trait, like the aforementioned x-gene from x-men. The prequels made it scientific with that explanation. And if other have it more than others to be trained, and it's microscopic bacteria in your blood, then it is an inherited dormant trait that people could get.

 

Midi-chlorians are life forms that exists in every living cell. It's not a gene and every living being has them.

Made what "scientific"?

The more midi-chlorians you have, the more attuned you can be to the Force. For someone to have an high count, he/she doesn't need to be the offspring of Force sensitive beings.

 

But it does help. I guess the Jedi figured that the number of random Force-sensitive beings born in the galaxy was sufficient to keep their enrollment up, so no need for the Jedi to breed.

 

When Qui-Gon explains what midi-clorians are and that they are a measurable thing, that is a scientific explanation of the force.

 

Explanation of the Force? The Force is never explained in the PT, and midi-chlorians are not the Force.

 

Now you are contradicting yourself.

If having more midi-chlorians=a force user and they specifically measure midi-count with a scientific instrument that counts it in a blood sample then yes the Force was explained and measurable.

 

Erm... No, I'm not.

Again, midi-chlorians are not the Force. The Force was explained in ANH and TESB to be an energy field (did that ruin the "mystery"?). What's explained in TPM is how someone connects with the Force and why some are more attuned than others, which is through midi-chlorians (and in return, they allow a person to hear the will of the Force. But everyone know what that is, right? No mystery anymore...). There is a biological connection, which is reinforced by Luke in RotJ when he explains why Leia can use the Force as well.

 

Where in the movies did you folks get the idea that the Midis = the Force?

 

They are sci-fi - the exact reason I didn't like them. I felt that it didn't fit with Star Wars. To me Star Wars has always been Science-FANTASY. (Jedi) knights, (crazy old) wizards, princesses, evil (kingdoms) empires, etc. It always felt like what would it be like if LotR had advanced to be at Star Trek's level but kept a lot of cultural aspects to it. It's another reason I absolutely loved Star Wars - because it felt so different from the typical science fiction we get. Granted, SW isn't unique in this. Dune is another science-fantasy (or rather - has aspects of it). I'm not saying that midi-chlorians don't work - I guess they do. I just hate them.

I do 100% agree with you that I absolutely hate the premise of Anakin being the Jedi Messiah. Apparently, a father saving his son while his son simultaneously saves his father from the darkness devouring his soul is too low-key and boring. Thus, Anakin has to be a Jedi Jesus that vanquishes Satan into a dark pit. Much more interesting.../sigh/

You're welcome. I always got to help a fellow Obi-Wan fan out.

Yeah it does kind of...limit the Jedi by not breeding members of their order (or at least allowing them to). But considering how love can come with dark passion - it could lead to a lot of chaos amongst the Jedi Order. So it probably is easier to simply have non-Jedi breed Jedi for them so they can take them. This practice is probably, from my limited understanding, is a negative that Lucas was trying to show. That the Jedi Order had kind of lost their way and were dwindling their own numbers. I wouldn't be surprised if in Episode 7 - Luke has removed this practice.

 

I know that in the books they are allowed families and such since Luke married Mara and had a kid. And I agree that should be shown in the new movies as well to show that Luke saw what became of the order, specifically his father, and made a change.

Oh and since you are a fellow Obi-Wan fan here's something you might like I made in photoshop, assuming you like young Obi that is.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+ChristianHansard/albums/5931051946815506833/5975954449367167074?pid=5975954449367167074&oid=107279056146815568401

 

I think Lucas once stated that it's long-term attachment that Jedi worry about - not short-term relationships

So, if a female Jedi gets pregnant - they wouldn't be allowed to keep the child - the child would go straight into the Jedi nursery and the mother would be expected to stay away from them.

 

Not from the Prequel Trilogy.

 

The "Jedi trainee is permitted no contact with the parent while training" theme was a big plot point in a lot of the novels-

and the Republic Commando series makes a point of showcasing a Jedi mother's fear that her child will be taken from her to be raised by the Order.

The Jedi Path (background book for the Jedi Order as a whole) makes a point of saying that the Jedi are the legal custodians of all Force Sensitives in the Republic.

 

It's one of many Star Wars science holes that has to be conveniently ignored. The Skywalker family makes it clear there is a hereditary element to Force sensitivity. Yet, if a trait is hereditary but everyone with that trait takes a vow of celibacy, then the number of people possessing that trait will eventually dwindle away to zero.

If I can completely ignore the laws of physics when I watch Star Wars, I think I could also ignore the laws of genetics.

 

Darth Tenebrous altered midichlorians and turned them into maxichlorians...

JarJar said "maxi-big, the force is", so I can see where there might be some confusion.

 

I like both young and old Obi-Wan. Really cool pic. Thanks for sharing that. Nicely done.

All the more reason I dislike that this "trait" was established in the first place.