Amph Westworld series by J.J. Abrams and Johnathan Nolan

the 'promised land' they all rush into is more of a prison than WW tho , what they gonna do there ? they can't change or grow . Can they die ?

 

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Yeah and I guess the writers needed all the hosts to be dead at didn't make it through The Door so they could all be transported elsewhere.

I wonder what the significance, if any, was that the books were "written" in the same style as if they were notes to be played in a player piano. I guess just further proof to hit home that we, as humans, all follow the beat of the same drum according to the show. We're not complex. We're simple. Our justification of some of our actions simply have no justification. It's just self preservation or lack of empathy.

I believe the show said that they can make the world whatever they want, hence why Akecheta saw his wife. What's really going to bake your noodle next season is when someone finally goes inside the "promised land" and the hosts are killing each other for sport like humans.

 

I think they just like the use of the 'automatic piano' motif which of course is right there in every title sequence .

 

I love that opening sequence and the music, but I must confess that I fast forward through it just so I can get to the episode. I had to remind as some episodes this season had a cold open before the opening credits.

I definitely think it wouldn't hurt to go back and binge Seasons 1 & 2. I wish my wife liked science fiction/fantasy.

 

I've watched back a few eps , its nice to see some clues laid in , but I always remind myself to never get sucked in ever again after Lost .

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So we were shown the far future. Perhaps MIB is a key to VR on a ruined Earth.

Anyway, all kinds of Revelations symbology with a third of the hosts escaping, Delores having access to all of them to use in the real world, Horseman of Death, Hell(the Forge). I think there is something about crossing water was well but I'd have to look that up.

So all these events take place. At the end a real world Delores and an "Emily" use them for Fidelity.

I like that Stubbs was just playing the role of dumbass.

That was Maeve's face on the adult with her child in the VR. So she uploaded to the host and went in?

So we do not know exactly what is in the Hale host in the real world. Like Bernard I assume it is a made thing via Delores as she now has control through her of the company. or part of it to the extent of her job on the board of the company. I did not see Future World the sequel to West World but I do know that in it people of power are replaced with robots. So that is what Delores will do. She has 5 globes but does she have access to the the place she beamed the hosts as ready made tools for uploading to real world bodies for placement?

I don't know what people are complaining about, this was awesome!

Needs more Emily.

EDIT: According to the show runners MIB in the future Fidelity sessions is doing that to himself to try and change his cornerstone moment of killing his daughter.

Delores made Bernard in the real world as a check on her power. You can take this a few ways. She wants to be Magneto and needs a Prof X. She was Lucifer all this time but takes God's role and makes her own adversary in Bernard.

 

That last paragraph is both true, and completely dumb, and a really depressing sort of cosmology.

 

the post-credit scene was the only time I thought they weren't playing "fair" cuz frankly I thought it was still in the real world timeline we've been following that episode, that William was either being teased with being tricked into believing he's a robot after the recovery team found him or it happened sometime in between when he went downstairs but I had to read an interview with Lisa Joy that said it was in the far future, which does make sense but was an unfair twist in the convoluted timeline game they're playing. So what happened to William when he went down the elevator in the real-time story anyway?

Still, oddly happy ending, most of the robots end up in robot heaven and the Hale twist was great cuz I love me some Tessa Thompson and her being Delores / Hale robot or maybe something different in the future could be great. More Tessa Thompson being evil robot! And Delores has gone full Kill All Humans killer Terminator so I'm okay with that. I'm just wondering will this show ever be a Western again?

 

I don't understand what I just watched.

 

I like the post-credit scene as a mood piece / creepy callback to the Delos in a Box episode but it was the only piece of timeline shifting plot trickery that I felt was a bit too convoluted and left field how it fit into the narrative. So all I can figure is maybe going to the elevator didn't happen to William in the present, instead he got picked up and shipped off to the beach (cuz he did have his frickin hand blown off) and the William walks to the elevator scene is the Robot-William in the far future.

for a heavy serialized show, I did think there was a nice chunk of character-centric eps. The Ghost Nation episode was great and I think Delos in a Box episode may be possibly the best episode of the series. And they did call back to it a few times as well.

 

That actually makes sense. Had it been in the rest of the episode, it would have been very convoluted especially with William at the beach. Not that it wasn't already convoluted though.

So the finale was very interesting, but what I keep going back to is Ford and William.

Best as I can guess, William's adventures in the park showed him what was possible. He then convinces James Delos to purchase the park because Delos is intrigued at the idea of immortality. The hats capture all the data and we see where things go.

My guess is this really upset Ford. By this time, Arnold is dead. We know that Arnold was alive when they initially pitched things to Logan. He's dead by the time William arrives in Westworld the first time. So, likely reeling from this, Ford's investors likely don't give him much of a choice and he agrees to this buyout and then quickly realizes what their plans are. As protection, he builds Stubbs and tasks Delores with rebuilding Arnold. Delores, realizing Arnold would not survive if made exactly the same, creates Bernard. Ford has now surrounded himself with his own private host army as Delos moves in to take over the park. When you think about it, this makes Ford's interactions in Season 1 all the more sad. The man is incredibly isolated and only has the hosts for real contact along with a few idiotic techs and Theresa trying to fire him. This certainly fuels Ford's hatred for humanity, especially as he sees them defile his creations- his children.

Particularly, I think the breaking point was Maeve and William's attack on her. Ford admits Maeve was his favorite and he even wrote her storyline for her to escape- as we suspected Maeve's first real example of free will was choosing to leave the train to rescue her daughter. Delores likely also factors in to how Ford is feeling about humanity, but I think Maeve and her daughter were the key. It's somewhere at this point where I think Ford discovers that William's project has violated their agreement. He indicates as much to William at the bar. This is where Ford gets the idea for one last game. And I am very curious what other games Robert has been playing with William for years that has William so fed up. I suspect we'll find out more next season.

At this point though, I have to wonder whether Ford was dying. OR, does he see himself as a Christlike figure, dying for the sins of the hosts to save them? His death frees the hosts and allows this next phase to begin- as evidenced by what he tells Akecheta. Ford then sets into motion his new narrative, killing Theresa because she got in his way as he warned her, and putting himself in the cradle with Bernard's help. And then Delores kills him, he taunts William, telling him that this game was created for him and yet, it's all about the door. So what game was Ford creating for William? I think the answer is the way he gradually drives William insane by making him think he's already a host and no one is real. As Delores indicates, he's begun to question the nature of his reality. The door for William perhaps was closing the door on William's reality and making him think he was a host. The threshold or "door" William walked through was one of sanity/insanity. As we've seen now, Stubbs and other security officers could pass as human. For that reason, I am wondering if William's rescue party actually were hosts and Ford sent them after William to push him to that final moment where he kills Emily and crosses over into pure insanity. It's a cruel thing to do, but it's not that different from the Killing Joke's "One bad day" theory.

But then, the main question I have is what did William do that was so heinous that Ford would focus on an elaborate revenge plan and sacrifice himself to enact it? Torturing the hosts? Ok sure. But that would be like getting upset if you were a toy maker and the kids ripped the head off the dolls. You can still reattach it later. The hosts were repaired and Delos was footing the bill for those techs so that can't be all. The surveillance project also doesn't feel like the driving force. I can't see someone as morally flexible as Ford having that much of an issue with collecting data on 4 million guests. And while I get being proud of your creation and Ford's clear God complex, I am still not sure that is enough to justify his decision to torment William with this specially designed game. I feel like there is still something worse we haven't yet seen from William. Something that would offend Ford enough to set the hosts on a path to freedom and William on a road to ruin.

 

I like the "hats read people mind's" bit cuz it's just B-movie cheesy sci-fi enough that goes against the interlocking complex nesting doll narratives. But how do they copy people's brains? With hats!

Of course, that would mean that there's no mind copying evil headwear in the other parks but probably they put it on them sometime. Maybe while they're sleeping? Evil hats!

Anyway, apparently Stubbs is a host is legit, I just thought he was speaking ambiguously about how he can protect guests in the park. Once again, another bit I didn't quite get at all. I kinda like him as a regular everyman, though. Reminds me of Mister Reese from Nolan/Joy/Abrams previous show Person of Interest.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/westworld-finale-is-stubbs-a-robot

Semi-related: poor Elsie! The show is kind of running out of sympathetic characters by this point. But how was Elise able to freeze all motor functions on Bernard when he wasn't hooked up to any datapad or something. In fact, this has bugged me since the twist in S1 with Bernard but I do have a funny notion of whenever Bernard was working and someone said "freeze all motor functions" that he sort of froze in the background and just nobody noticed.

 

The one Bernard picked up in the secret facility? That was Ford's pearl that he put in the cradle.

 

I think since Bernard killed Delores and brought her back as Hale, she kind of owed him one, so she rebuilt him. Sure, it may sound dumb that she created her own enemy, but again there is no growth without suffering and if none stand to oppose her then she doesn't grow.

 

Perhaps it was a hostile take over of the company and William's ulterior motives of collecting data on the unsuspecting guests. I think that's what the celebration for William was about.

Re Delores and Bernard

I found the following two videos helpful is deciphering season two and particularly the season finale.

 

At 3:16, is that Viggo Mortensen?

 

It looks like him to me in the video, but from a different angle, no so much.





I didn't find anything in my Google search that credits Viggo with an appearance in Westworld.

 

Roll the genetic dice.

Here is the timeline in detail.

 

ok , I'm still having trouble with this .

1. After Bernard kills Delores he goes back to the mesa , sees Emily killed and decides to go back to the Forge again to pluck the pearl out of Delores' head and then goes back to the mesa and sticks it in the Charlotte copy ?
Hmm ... so even tho the cradle was destroyed they can still recreate any host just with their pearl ? also - lucky he didn't damage it , since he shot her straight thru the head !

2. Bernard and Ford have a final conversation on a beach where we learn that Ford is now just an imagining of Bernard's , but when could this have happened , I really can't see where it could happen since once Bernard recreates Delores he's never alone again until he's shot dead .

 

1. We saw when Teddy shot himself that when Dolores removed his brain unit that the bullet didn't penetrate it. Also, it wasn't Emily, it was Elsie.

2. He leaves Hale-Dolores to her own devices, de-addresses his memories, and heads to the beach. We catch up to him as the rescue team is finding him in the first episode of Season 2.

I definitely need to re-watch Season 2 to get Bernard's full timeline straight. I didn't watch any of the videos above yet, but they might explain it as well and hopefully in less than 10+ hours.

 

thanks to @TiniTinyTony for your patient answers to my questions .

I guess it does fit together , but I can't help thinking that they broke up the plot to make it more baffling than it really needed to be .