Lit What are the biggest weaknesses of Luke/Leia/Han/Jaina/Jag/Ben?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ghost, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Han Solo for Chief of State!
  2. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    This will be somewhat of a rant. My thoughts will be all over the place.
    The Big 3 need to actually retire. Let the next generation handle things. They should only come if the good guys absolutely need the win.
    Use the next generation! We know the people or some of the ones that can step up but with the Big 3 generation hogging the spotlight we don't know anyone that can handle a major war or anything.
    Jaina is 30-something. Way older than Luke and Leia were in Episode 4.
    Luke needs to bring back the redemption feature. He redeemed his own father and tried it in the Bantam books but gave up on Alema and Jacen. Why?
    Han needs an apprentice smuggler. Like that scene with Roa in Hutt Gambit. Do something like that for Han! They should have kept Droma around as well.
    Clighal should have been the replacement head of the NJO while Luke is away.
    Show Luke actually making administrative decisions for the NJO. Show him training younglings like Yoda did.
    Leia should have been trained as a Jedi for more than just DNT.
    Han and Leia should have tried to reconcile the GA and Corellia and later the Confederation.
    Give them mercy missions to planets in trouble.
    Give everyone an apprentice except Ben and Allana
    They should have gotten Jaina and Jag together sometime during the gap between the NJO and DNT. But no Denning wanted us to have a Jaina/Jag/Zek love triangle.
    Speaking of time-gaps, they need to get rid of them. Between the end of the NJO and the start of LOTF there is a 10 year gap with only 2 years being filled up with the DNT.
    Jedi_Glover and Kyris Cavisek like this.
  3. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Luke's faith in his friends. G-canon, overruled.
  4. Jedi_Glover Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 1
    Only problem with Clighal is the the fact that she is an alien that nearly had her world destroyed by Daala and the fact that Daala wanted someone she could push around which is why the deal with Luke was able to work out in the end. The authors seem to write everyone younger than what they are. Goes with any character except Allana who they wrote as if she was 13 or 14.
  5. Jedi_Glover Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 1
    The problem is the fact that there are too many situations lately that the good guys have to win. Abeloth could only be stopped by Luke, which is a problem the writing team needs to work out because I did not mind the fact that Luke saved the day but I minded the fact that they keep bringing in so many things that Luke has to be the one to stop.
  6. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The writing crew certainly does need to tame down the threats of galactic doom. Have a new generation person or persons start on an adventure and fight someone in book 1. In book 2 have the good guys get beat and then in book 3 have one of the Big 3 generation come and the combine forces to win
  7. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I honestly don't want the Big 3 to help out if it is Luke, Han maybe to do a turbo laser Falcon thing, but if it is Jaina or Ben, they need to fight the bad guy by themselves and show that they can hold their own. I mean I guess Jaina fought Jacen, and Ben fought Tahiri, but since LotF they haven't really fought anything 1 on 1 with a terrifying enemy
  8. Danzo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012
    star 1

    See this is something that really irritates me. Aside from Jacen and Ben the only real Master/Apprentice pairing that we've seen since DNT is Octa/Seha. We need more of these relationships. All these new Jedi are constantly popping up and I'm left wondering who the heck trained them. At the moment it seems like to be a Jedi you simply need to have been taught by the Solusars at some point in your life but never have actually studied one on one with another Jedi. The Master/Apprentice relationship can be great but we never get to see it anymore.
  9. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Very true, however Jaina's apprentice would have to be ingeniously designed to keep up. But it wasn't hard to introduce the Octa/Seha Master-Apprentice dynamic and it developed both characters. Doran and a cathar, Valin with a Selonian. Not to mention it would have been more interesting had a Jedi went crazy while mastering an apprentice. Either the apprentice could have saved them or they could kill the apprentices and after the crazies would deal with the regret of killing their apprentice...
  10. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    I'm not sure about traditional master/apprentice pairings. It smells too much of a monolithic prequel style Jedi Order to me. I think it would work better if it was less a character formally taking on some kid who was already being schooled (*cough*indoctrinated*cough*) in some temple and more one of the character's stumbling on a kid with force potential on one of their adventures and just decided to start teaching them.

    The problem for me with traditional formal apprenticeships is that those are going to give us Jedi characters who already have Jedi ideology ingrained in them instead of letting them come to those beliefs on their own, by their own conscious choice and having to struggle with aspects of their upbringing that conflict with it. And having a student/teacher relationship would be kind of dull and static if the student accepts the views being taught right out of the gate.

    And no more damn robes. Unless you live in an arid wasteland there's no need to dress like a highly flammable vagrant.
    Last edited by Landostrip, Jan 17, 2013
  11. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    uhh, yeah
    women are irrational, sub-intelligent, and weak

    When Leia was chief-of-state i'm surprised the New Republic didn't go to war every 28 days
  12. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Luke: He's the worst leader I have ever seen. Not trying to sound like a jerk on that one, but the man has yet to truly train others to take his place. If Luke were to die right now the Order would be a mess. That does not tell me he is the proper leader yet. He needs to seriously start training his order, especially those on the council to be the leaders they need to be.

    Leia: Others have said it, but she is just a bad mom. I find it upsetting because I think this is largely how the authors portray her, but she almost seems t not even enjoy being a parent. it is really bothersome to me.

    Han: He has become the taxi driver for the gang mostly. There are moment where they use him properly into being a steady anchor for Leia. They need to zone in on that element and let it shine. They need to highlight that as his best purpose.

    Jaina: She is a 30 something year old woman still being written as a girl in her late teens to generous early twenties. I don;t blame the character so much as the writers for this. They really need to write her as a grown-up. She is supposed to be older than I am, but right now is portrayed as significantly younger. Plenty of characters fall into this issue, but Jaina takes the prize on this one.

    Jag: Grow up and be the change already. The guy has the potential to make serious change in this galaxy, but has so far been wanting to also act like a teenager and get rid of responsibility. I get it's a lot of pressure, but right now the only word that seems to clearly define the character is "coward".

    Ben: He is rather cocky. As others have said he also really need to be around people his own age more. He is clearly being groomed to be the new leader of the order. It would be nice if he actually got to know the people he will one day be leading.

    I say all this harsh stuff, but still acknowledge that I do enjoy these characters. These are simply elements I wish would change.
  13. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Overall I love the characters but even they have faults, just like you or me. Pointing it out is just being a good friend
    Jedi_Glover likes this.
  14. jedimaster203 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 4
    You're either twelve years old or a misogynist of epic proportions if that is what you actually think. I honestly hope you're joking, and just really bad at conveying it through text.
  15. Hope Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 1999
    star 4
    What are the biggest weaknesses of Luke/Leia/Han/Jaina/Jag/Ben? The authors are the problem. The creative team needs to get off their butts and start being creative by bringing some new blood into the post NJO era. People like Denning and Golden have had their chance and in my opinion they blew it. Get rid of these guys and bring in new authors who can breathe new life into this era and characters. I know others may not feel this way but I would love love love it if Crucible and the SotJ were cancelled.
  16. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I would give Golden another chance, she only has had 3 books in the EU all constrained by a 9 book series. And the "middle" author at that. I would give her one more chance with the SotJ trilogy. She can write Jaina really well. So hey, one more shot for her.

    Denning, oh boy. The last book that he wrote that I liked was Inferno, but even that was far too short. Star by Star was great and long. I don't blame him for killing Anakin, kind of blame him for killing Jacen. But his writing style is repetitive, clinging to supporting characters that only exist to him. Taatoine Ghost wasn't terrible, but wasn't all that interesting, which is what I am expecting from Crucible, a decent but all together boring book.
  17. Hope Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 1999
    star 4
    Three books is more than enough for me to know that I will never pick up another Golden book. Being a middle author of a series is absolutely no excuse for crap writing. But Golden isn't the only problem. The post NJO era has left such a sour, nasty taste in my mouth that it will take a freaking miracle for me to want think of picking up another book//comic in this era. Most of the characters I care about have either been killed off in the most hackish manner possible or completely ruined. Honestly I'm hoping that the ST will render this era infinities (I doubt I would shed too many tears if the entire post RotJ EU is declared infinities). Best thing to do is toss this era into the bin and start over from scratch. It probably won't happen but a girl can dream.
    Zeta1127 likes this.
  18. Manisphere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2007
    star 5
    Just...no.
    Last edited by Manisphere, Jan 18, 2013
  19. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Incompetence/incompetence/incompetence/incompetence/lack of personality/incompetence.
  20. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    What is your problem with her? Aside from not liking her, give me reasons. She is better than Traviss at writing post RotJ
  21. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    Don't feed the troll.
  22. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Listen to Windu
  23. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Which is why I have virtually no interest in the post-NJO at this point beyond certain things like X-wing: Mercy Kill.
  24. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    i thought it would have been incredibly obvious that i was "joking"

    but apparently not
    Last edited by FatSmel, Jan 18, 2013
  25. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Ben needs some yjk type adventures with a crew of Jedi his own age, fall in and out of love a few times. He needs to have some fun in his life before he gets set in his ways. Maybe go to Naboo on his own to meet the rest of his family.
    Jaina needs to train an apprentice or two.
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Jan 18, 2013