What are the Jedi? Warriors? Peacekeepers?....the philosophical debate.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by I-poodoo, Aug 24, 2001.

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  1. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    I would tend to agree with you Peacekeeper, Jedi are definitely peacekeepers above all else, even though I think that calling them monks wouldn?t be too inaccurate.

    I believe that there is a question that every Jedi must ask himself. ?What is the best way that I can be a peacekeeper?? A Jedi must ask this question in respect to both the short term and on a much grander scale.

    When a Jedi asks this question in the short term, he will be asking it every day for the rest of his life. If a Jedi is mindful of the future and listens to the Force for wisdom, he will usually answer the question correctly. Jacen hasn?t always answered this question correctly, however he is on the right track and is getting much better at it.

    When a Jedi asks this question on a grand scale, he is essentially asking what type of Jedi he is going to be. If the Jedi is lucky he will only have to ask this question on the grand scale once. Cilghal became a healer after asking herself this question. Leia continued being a politician after asking herself this question. Luke was not a lucky as Cilghal and his sister, because he had to answer this question more than once. He hasn?t always made the right choices, but he is now back on the right path. Jacen has not yet answered this question but he does seem to be getting closer to the answer.
  2. SubSane Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Ya know what Jedis are? They are individuals who have been born with the ability to harness the power of this Force. However, as Jedis, they are taught that the power should be used to act as peacekeepers and protectors(rather, these new Jedis have been taught that). Nothing more.
    Is that not a warped mentality? I mean, why not use the power to make life easier. I understand the whole crutch argument, but I figure it's just like a car. It makes activities that would be harder, easier.
    Yes, you will have those who will try to use that power for grander, more selfish things. But hey, that's life. Abuse of power will always be there.
    It might be because I'm a laid back guy, but I can see the benefits of being able to use the Force however I see fit.
  3. mena_lyn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 3
    I've always thought of Jedi Knights as the GFFA manifestation of the Knights of the Round Table, y'know? And, if you go and read the Knight's code of chivalry, the duties of a knight are clearly outlined. Here are some of the highlights:

    -- Live for freedom, justice, and all that is good.

    -- Defend the weak and the innocent

    -- Destroy evil in all it's monstrous forms.

    -- Crush the monsters that steal our land and rob our people.

    -- Fight with Honor

    -- Always maintain one's principals

    -- Exhibit self control

    -- Administer Justice

    As far as dark side/light side is concerned, it's one's motivations, not actions, that make the difference most times. If the Jedi fight the Vong to save the lives of innocents, then there's nothing wrong with that. It's only fighting them out of hate and anger that leads to problems. Sometimes the best defense is seems offensive...but it's "self defense" if the other party strikes first.
  4. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    "Suppose you and I argue. If you win and I lose, are you indeed right and I wrong? And if I win and you lose, am I right and you wrong? Are we both partly right and partly wrong? Are we both all right or both all wrong? If you and I cannot see the truth, other people will find it even harder.

    Then whom shall I ask to be the judge? Shall I ask someone who agrees with you? If he already agrees with you, how can he be a fair judge? Shall I ask someone who agrees with me? If he already agrees with me, how can he be a fair judge? Shall I ask someone who agrees with both of us? If he already agrees with both of us, how can he be a fair judge? Then if you and I and others cannot decide, shall we wait for still another? Waiting for changing opinions is like waiting for nothing. Seeing everything in relation to the heavenly cosmos and leaving the different viewpoints as they are, we may be able to live out our years.

    What do I mean by seeing things in relation to the heavenly cosmos? Consider right and wrong, being and non-being. If right is indeed right, there need be no argument about how it is different from wrong. If being is really being, there need be no argument about how it is different from non-being. Forget time; forget distinction. Enjoy the infinite; rest in it."


    --Chuang Tsu: Inner Chapters, page 46

  5. Jarik Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2000
    star 4
    I'm missing all these new ones. Anyway:

    The Jedi are peacekeepers and defenders of justice primarily. Occassionally in order for them to keep the peace and the justice they must become warriors and fight. Other times they can be mediators and philosophers to keep the peace. The latter is the preferable method, but the former is sometimes necessary and when it is the latter will not be a good replacement.
  6. suncrusherX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 3
    mena_lyn-I agree with you 100%
  7. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    JMA: "What are the Jedi doing, by aiding those refugees, that a normal person could not do? Why do you need a fully trained Jedi Knight to perform the task of basically herding sheep?"

    Here's what it comes down to: if I'm a jedi (and no doubt every SW fan has imagined themselves as jedi :) ), if I feel I can save MORE lives than the average person helping refugees and other people escape, I cannot in good conscious go off on some fairly random mission to find that secret of securing the YV's defeat.

    Still I agree and echo your thoughts about there being some need of gathering more information about the YV. And I feel Kyp is doing a marvelous job so far of doing it. Right now, the time is different (in DT before, jedi did go on intelligence gathering missions), and I just feel the people would be best served by jedi directly, not indirectly... at least right now.
  8. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    "Here's what it comes down to: if I'm a jedi (and no doubt every SW fan has imagined themselves as jedi ), if I feel I can save MORE lives than the average person helping refugees and other people escape, I cannot in good conscious go off on some fairly random mission to find that secret of securing the YV's defeat."

    Vergere:

    Can a Jedi, in the unique time and circumstances of the NJO, really be more of a help than a normal person? Actually, if word ever got out that the people spearheading the refugee gig were Jedi, than I'm sure that all hell would break loose. With public sentiment being what it is towards the Jedi Knights at this time, don't you think that it would be more of a hinderance than a help?

    "Still I agree and echo your thoughts about there being some need of gathering more information about the YV. And I feel Kyp is doing a marvelous job so far of doing it."

    I would agree with you wholeheartedly, if only it were in the past tense. Kyp was doing a great job of intelligence gathering. Unfortunately, due to recent and highly questionable actions, any information he gathers from this point forward is highly suspect, and will probably be disregarded by anyone in a position to utilize it.

    JMA
  9. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    Thanks everyone for their posts. You guys gave alot of thought into this question, and have answered it with great insight. That is all I can ask.

    Vergere, JMA, I think you two are running around in circles. You both agree that Jedi should be out there gathering info on the Vong, but not on the importance of maintaining Luke's river.

    It seems to me that If Luke acted smartly, and finally was committed to an action, he could do both. Send Jedi or better yet pairs of Jedi to collect intelligence. Then when those Jedi return from whatever number of these reconmissions that is too many. Have them guardian a convoy of refugees in this river of Luke's.

    That way they continue to fight the Vong's invasion (knowledge is power), but also by herding sheep as you say, they don't forget who they are inevitably fighting for.

    Kyp has done just that IMO, despite all his bluster about fighting to save the people of the GFFA, we have not seen him help those victims personally. We don't see Kyp protecting refugees from the sorta corruption we saw in AoC and BP, We don't see him trying to find little Janie the Vor's lost mother, and we don't see him after the YV attacks helping in the Triage camps. He fights for them but only at a distance when that is good when necessary, but it is also necessary to not forget who's suffering you're trying to end. The statement "Jedi for Jedi." showed me that he has forgotten just who he claims to be protecting by his aggressiveness. I'd like to see that change made in him. I feel it would help him grow up.
  10. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    So, Jarik, you mean that the Jedi should be more chameleon than anything else.
  11. Jarik Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2000
    star 4
    "So, Jarik, you mean that the Jedi should be more chameleon than anything else"

    Huh? You think you could flesh that out and explain what you mean please?
  12. Gasgano_of_Earth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2001
    star 1
    the jedi are supposed to act on the will of the force, so the question is, what does the force want?
  13. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    That poses a whole nother set of questions. Does the Force have a will of it's own or is it merely a tool?

    JMA
  14. Gasgano_of_Earth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2001
    star 1
    well qui-gon says midi's tell the will of the force, so either he was wrong or they say something to some extent.
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