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What are your thoughts on Scientology???

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Boba_Fat83, Jun 7, 2005.

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  1. Beowulf

    Beowulf Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 28, 1999
    Ever heard of the auditing that Scientologists do? They charge for that per session, average cost around $1000, and that isn't on the honor system.
     
  2. Guinastasia

    Guinastasia Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2002
    You know, in the pagan threads, we were told NOT to bring up Christianity as a comparison. Why is okay here? Why can't we just discuss SCIENTOLOGY on its own?

     
  3. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Because scientology is just Christianity with a different premise?
     
  4. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Because scientology is just Christianity with a different premise?

    Dude, Jesus said "Love your enemies." Hubbard said "Destroy your enemies." Explain again how those two things are the same?
     
  5. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    You don't pay for a temple recommend, nor do you pay for a copy of the Church's Handbook of Instruction. Especially on the latter, even if you did pay for it, it would not give you the right to reproduce it.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  6. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Yes, but if you did pay for it you could sell it on ebay.


    btw, Ani, your faith isn't your job, unless you're a priest. So find a better example.


    Dude, Jesus said "Love your enemies." Hubbard said "Destroy your enemies." Explain again how those two things are the same?

    Christianity (or any major religion) asks you to give-up a part of your humanity to serve it. That sounds a lot like scientology to me.
     
  7. cyris8400

    cyris8400 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2006
    But isn't this true of any group, more or less? You must conform (a little or a lot) to fit into a group, be it your job, you hobby, or your religion.
     
  8. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    KK and Espaldapalabras have already given evidence of the accusations I'm stating.
    Remember, I said "Yes, as seen in aspects of", I made no claims on degrees of similarity, only that there are similarities. You are twisting my words, not the other way around.

    KK and Espaldapalabras have clearly displayed some of the unethical (imo) practices of the LDS and JWs.


    But you did agree with me to some extent, we just disagree on how similar the aspects of the LDS and JWs are similar to Scientology. It's all a subjective interpretation of different religions, but by my yard stick LDS and JWs are closer to Scientology than you are prepared to admit.


    Because people continue to bash Scientology using criteria that Christianity are guilty of. You are especially guilty of doing that.

    Stop bashing scientology, or use criteria that other religions are not guilty of, and the debate will naturally move on. (again, I must stress that I'm not defending Scientology, nor do I agree with it, I'm just defending people's right to follow whatever religion they want without critisism from others).


    Didn't God create a global flood to kill off all of the non-believers ?
     
  9. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    What specific unethical practices?

    Calling someone who is still on your membership rolls? There is a very simple process (consisting of sending a letter to the local leader) to get your name removed.

    Suing someone who has infringed church copyrights? How is that unethical in any way?

    Stopping someone from selling church property (such as temple recommend)? How is that unethical?

    Nothing I said comes anywhere close to supporting your claims, and as I haven't said one word about the JWs, you're basically just blowing hot air.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  10. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    I'm sorry where did they point out "unethical" practices of the JW's? As far as I know they are both LDS not JW, and nowhere did I see them say anything representing JW's point of view and KK even says as much. So again where is this supporting evidence you claim aganst JWs in order for you to make such bold and slanderous claims? You can cry the claim of twisting of words all you want but until you can provide some sort of evidence or even a valid example of how they are similar I'm afraid your claims are based on pure ignorance, nothing more.

    Again, please give me an example. You sure seem to know a lot more about JW's than myself, a practicing and active member.

     
  11. Guinastasia

    Guinastasia Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Except it's not. That's like saying that Buddhism is Christianity.

    Besides, L. Ron Hubbard was very anti-Christian. He called himself the Antichrist at times.

    Seriously, read all about it at [link=http://xenu.net]Operation Clambake[/link].

    Here's a topic: what about Scientology's views on psychology? How are they wrong (or not.)

     
  12. cyris8400

    cyris8400 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Well, that depends on how much or if psychology as we know it is proven. I could be going off things so ingrained that I believe to be true without any real evidence, but I thought it was totally crazy, akin to saying the sky is pink-and-green plaid instead of blue and dandelions devour small children when we're not looking.
     
  13. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    >>>Here's a topic: what about Scientology's views on psychology? How are they wrong (or not.) <<<

    Don't know exactly, but they were at my campus the other day and were talking about how you could/would get raped by a psychiatrist.

    o_O
     
  14. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Didn't God create a global flood to kill off all of the non-believers ?

    You know, I can understand not knowing much about Mormons or JWs (which is a good reason not to make wild and false accusations about them) but if you're going to go off on Christianty in general, shouldn't you at least know the story of Noah's Ark? :p

    If you go by the story, there were no "believers" or "non-believers" at the time; Judaism wouldn't have existed yet, let alone Christianity. The story only says that humanity was "wicked" and that Noah and his family were "just." "Belief" doesn't come along until centuries later.

    Seriously, do your homework here. Why stand up and claim that all religions are the same when you don't know much about any of them?
     
  15. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Thanks for taking me out of context.

    You posted "Dude, Jesus said "Love your enemies." Hubbard said "Destroy your enemies." ", to which I responded referencing the story about Noah.

    Whether they were believers or not is irrelevant, God killed off people he didn't like - extremely similar to what you are accusing Hubbard of promoting.
     
  16. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    And thanks for taking the time to completely disregard or ignore the issue of your slanderous accusations towards JW's! [face_plain]
     
  17. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2000
    Except it's not. That's like saying that Buddhism is Christianity.

    Except Scientology and Christianity are both religions of a similar structure, whereas Buddhism is much more of a philosophy.

    The Buddha said not to worry yourself with questions like, "what is the origin of life?" and "where does evil come from?"

    Christianity and Scientology, on the other hand, have essential mythologies (whether God, Jesus, and the angels or Lord Xenu and the Thetans), the belief in which is required as a member.

    Both churches say, "We know why the world is the way it is, and if you do what we tell you then your life (or afterlife) will be better. Only by following our path can you escape the evils of the world."

    The Buddha, of course, said that there is not only one path to enlightenment.
     
  18. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Malkie, you ought to know the difference between the Old and New Testaments. Vengeful God, Old Testament. Loving God, New Testament. For 500 points and a toaster oven, which Testament does Jesus show up in, and which version of God does he preach about?

    You're clearly familiar with neither the teachings of Jesus nor those of Hubbard. Why not go out and learn about them before you start trying to compare the two?

    Halcyon:

    Christianity's beliefs aren't copyrighted as trade secrets, and they don't charge you a dime to tell you about them ? in fact, Christians will often tell you about them at great length, on the street, whether you ask about them or not. :p

    Scientologists, on the other hand, guard their beliefs under lock and key until you either gush out money or swear yourself to servitude.

    Christianity spreads their beliefs freely, while Scientology sells theirs for all the money you've got. That's not a religion; it's a business masquerading as one.

    By the way, I'm a fan of Buddhism too. Not a practitioner, but I like what they have to say.
     
  19. Warsie

    Warsie Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Nothing necessarily wrong with Scientology
     
  20. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    what about Scientology's views on psychology? How are they wrong (or not.)

    I think their views on psychology are harmful to society at-large if you get enough people believing as they do. Hopefully their views will remain on the fringe and never enter the mainstream. Also, while I am against any pills being used wantonly to treat psychological illnesses, they are useful with therapy. So on that I cannot defend them. It's patently stupid to believe that some boogie-men from another planet are the reason behind depression or any other mental disorder.
     
  21. Guinastasia

    Guinastasia Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Or that post-partum depression can be cured by popping a few vitamins. The doses of niacin reccomended by Hubbard can be downright dangerous-one can easily overdose on vitamin supplements.

    Or how you cure addictions by sitting in a sauna for eight hours, downing cooking oil and vitamin cocktails.

     
  22. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    Sounds like a fun time spent in the bathroom afterwards. [face_sick]
     
  23. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2000
    Christianity spreads their beliefs freely, while Scientology sells theirs for all the money you've got. That's not a religion; it's a business masquerading as one.

    I don't think secrecy and charging money necessarily indicates illegitimacy.

    Don't forget that in its first few centuries, Christianity was something of a secret society, too. Romans thought 'body and blood of Christ' meant they were cannibals. And from time to time some Christian sects have demanded tithes, too.


    As the Jesuit priest at my high school used to say:
    A religion is just a cult with numbers.
     
  24. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    I'm not actually sure what you are trying to argue here. You agree that God caused the deaths of millions in the flood he created, yet you say Hubbard is a bad person as he's said "Destroy your enemies".

    I'm failing to see the difference myself.

    Science is kinda on his side on this one. For many, many women post natal depression is a psychological problem, not a physical one. There's reasonable evidence supporting a non-medication solution for this condition. Infact, cognative therapy (which I personally disagree with), apparently works very well on post natal depression - ie the simple case of seeing a "specialist", and being prescribed a placebo (but being told it's a miracle cure), works wonders.

    Read :-

    [blockquote] Psychological Medicine, Volume 32, Issue 6, August 2002, Pages 1039-1047
    Chabrol, H; Teissedre, F; Saint-Jean, M; Teisseyre, N; Rogé, B; Mullet, E[hr][/blockquote]

    or

    [blockquote][hr]Pragmatic randomized trial of antenatal intervention to prevent post-natal depression by reducing psychosocial risk factors
    Psychological Medicine, Volume 30, Issue 6, November 2000, Pages 1273-1281
    Brugha, T S; Wheatley, S; Taub, N A; Culverwell, A; Friedman, T; Kirwan, P; Jones, D R; Shapiro, D A[hr][/blockquote]

    or

    [blockquote][hr]Group treatment for postpartum depression: a pilot study
    The Australian And New Zealand Journal Of Psychiatry, Volume 30, Issue 6, December 1996, Pages 852-860
    Meager, I; Milgrom, J[hr][/blockquote]

    or

    [blockquote][hr]Post-natal depression: the relevance of sociological approaches
    Journal Of Advanced Nursing, Volume 22, Issue 3, September 1995, Pages 416-424
    Thurtle, V[hr][/blockquote]


    >
     
  25. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    The difference? For one thing, neither one of us believe that Noah's flood ever happened; all credible science points to its being a myth. Hubbard had people destroyed for real, and the CoS still follows his example today.

    And again, Jesus preached about the New Testament "loving father" God, not the Old Testament "mighty smiter" God. You ought to know that.
     
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