What are your thoughts on Scientology???

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Boba_Fat83, Jun 7, 2005.

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  1. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    neither one of us believe that Noah's flood ever happened; all credible science points to its being a myth.

    (trying not to mention the resurrection)
    (trying not to mention the resurrection)
    (trying not to mention the resurrection)

    Eeaaghh! All credible science points to ALL the magical stuff in the Bible being myths.


    Hubbard had people destroyed for real, and the CoS still follows his example today.

    CoS has been around less than a century, and Christians were executing 'infidels' as far as 1600 years after the religion was founded.


    And again, Jesus preached about the New Testament "loving father" God, not the Old Testament "mighty smiter" God.

    The loving god of the NT and the smiting god of the OT are just different aspects of the SAME god. The OT is not just some archaic mythology in the history of Christianity. If it was, why would the OT be included in the Bible and quoted in church services?
  2. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Eeaaghh! All credible science points to ALL the magical stuff in the Bible being myths.

    Of course it does. The point is that you can't compare what we know Hubbard did for real to a bunch of myths.

    CoS has been around less than a century, and Christians were executing 'infidels' as far as 1600 years after the religion was founded.

    True, but that doesn't mean that the CoS gets another fifteen-and-a-half centuries to do whatever it wants.

    The loving god of the NT and the smiting god of the OT are just different aspects of the SAME god.

    Depends on how you look at it; you could also argue that the Hebrews' views and concept of God changed with the times. In any case, when Christians ask "What would Jesus do?" the answer is never "Destroy your enemies and deposit their loathsome corpses into the nearest body of water." When you ask "What would Hubbard do?" the answer is usually "Stalk and harass them, accuse them of whatever perversion you can come up with, and sue them into oblivion. For starters."
  3. CloneCommander07 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2004
    star 4
    I have never been a person to judge without knowing more. I couldn't form an opinion until I looked up on Wikipedia and read the highlights and beliefs up to OT III as well as calling a fellow friend of mine who happens to be a Scientologist.

    And now, I must say, that I believe that since it is a system and means of worship (albeit it is REALLY pushing realism), and they have successful followers, it is right to declare it a means of worship or a religion.

    But, something about this equation . . .

    "More money into the Church of Scientology = Faster movement up the OT levels = "Faster Enlightenment & Growth""


    . . . just doesn't seem right to me.

    There are no impoverished people in the Church of Scientology for a reason.
  4. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Oh, there are impoverished people, all right-all the ones at the bottom.

    I give up. I'm tired of every religious discussion on this board yet AGAIN being hijacked to a discussion about Christianity.

    Oh, and Malkie, vitamins will NOT freaking help a psychological problem.
  5. Espaldapalabras Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
    Malkie can't or won't respond when he is wrong.
  6. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    did you take the time to read the studies I posted, or are you just repeating your opinion again ?

    The facts > Your opinion

    edit

    do you even understand what a pyschological problem is ? can you provide evidence and studies which counter the studies I posted previously ?
  7. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I give up. I'm tired of every religious discussion on this board yet AGAIN being hijacked to a discussion about Christianity.

    Trying to refute Christians' assertions that Scientology is so much less legitimate than Christianity =/= 'hijacked by a discussion about Christianity'


    Guin,

    I'm just speaking for myself here, but I don't compare CoS to Christianity because I'm trying to attack Christianity. I do it because people on this board continue to hold CoS to a higher standard than other more 'accepted' religions. As I have continued to demonstrate, almost every reason people have used to say "Scientology is a load of crap" could just as easily be used to say "Christianity is a load of crap" or "Islam is a load of crap". The comparisons would work just as easily on Islam or Judaism as on Christianity, but my greatest familiarity (and, I believe the majority of this board's) IS with Christianity. I think comparing CoS to Christianity allows me to make my point much better than if I used other examples.


    Do I believe Scientology is bunk? Yes. And for the same reasons that I believe Christianity is bunk. The fact that the Christian mythology is older than CoS's doesn't make it any more legitimate.

    EDIT:
    And if you want people to be accepting of your belief that a guy was born a god, died and rose from the dead, then it's hypocritical to not accept that some people believe everything bad in the world is caused by the souls of dead aliens clinging to our bodies.
  8. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Keep in mind, though, that the CoS's mythology, outlandish as it may be, isn't the real issue here. Their practices are the problem.
  9. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    So you could claim any number of things against any number of religions. Scientology doesn't have a monopoly on scummy people.
  10. CloneCommander07 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2004
    star 4
    I just made an enlightened visit to Xenu.net and learned some really disturbing things. It seems the CoS took a good idea and built a corrupt belief system on it. Well, it can be argued by any religious opposition that all religion has done that in some form.

    I couldn't believe that people drop anywhere between $300,000 and $500,000 to gain OT levels in the CoS. Damn. Other religious followers throw $5 or $15 in the collection plate every Sunday or so but 1/2 a million dollars???

    And I would assume that unlike, say Christian or Catholic collection money that goes back to those less fortunate, the CoS money goes into their own pockets.

    I wonder if Scientologists can make it a tax writeoff.
  11. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    It doesn't bother me so much that people bash other religions, or whatever. That's their choice. It's that we can't even just sit down and discuss Scientology itself. That's all.

    Oh, and THIS is some freaky ass stuff. It's basically L. Ron Hubbard going on about his stupid theories and crap. Dude should be shot just for how he pronounces the word "galaxy." Except he's already dead.

    ETA: there's more!

    Oh, and I bloody well know what psychological problems are. Are you telling me I could cure my OCD by popping a Flinstones Chewable? o_O



  12. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    so I take it you haven't bothered to read the studies I posted, and don't have any evidence to support your opinion.

    I didn't think so.

    :rolleyes:
  13. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    I don't have access to those studies right now, unfortunately. And I'm not about to drop everything I'm doing to rush to the library because of a debate on a freaking Star Wars message board on the freaking internet.
    ETA: it also annoys me that I've provided plenty of cites for MY claims, only to have them dismissed as "propaganda."

    ETA: That was a tad harsh. I don't dispute that sometimes medication isn't the answer. What gets me is that Scientology's methods are bunk. Their vitamin cocktails contain dangerous levels of niacin-it's quite easy to overdose on vitamins, especially if you take them as Scientology suggests.

    Sitting someone in a sauna for hours and chugging Wesson doesn't sound like a good idea.

  14. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    I don't have access to those studies right now, unfortunately.

    o_O
  15. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    What the hell? I acknowledge you provided cites-I'm saying I right now do NOT have the resources to locate them. Excuse me for being unemployed and not having a car.

    My point isn't that I'm disputing what you're saying. I'm disputing what SCIENTOLOGY is saying. There's a difference.

    Jesus.

    At any rate, Scientology states that mental illness does not exist and those who seek psychiatric aid are being duped. THAT has not been my experience.



  16. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    In some cases people are being duped by psychiatrists. Especially with the ADD and ADHD growth in our society. I'm sure there's way fewer cases of ADD and ADHD than what's reported on.
  17. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    The only reason why it SEEMS there are more such cases is because we understand it better, and more people are willing to talk about it.

    Trust me, ADHD is real. I've lived with it all my life.
  18. Constant_shadow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    On the matter of psychology:

    It is a fact that drugs are over perscribed. I know many parents that have children that do not behave at all and the parents claimed they had ADD or bi polar. When those children were under discipline and regulation of rational people they behaved well and after discipline was enforced the parents noticed "Hey my kid doesn't hae ADD".

    Now I probably have slight bias on this issue. When I turned 13 I was acting a little weird. Never doing anything wrong or bad. But the doctor said my weird mood swings were from Bi polar disorder (WHICH I DO NOT HAVE). It turns out after 6-7 years of being labelled as such, the doctor was wrong. I had a pituitary tumour (Not cancer). It screwed up my thyroid (resulting in mood swings and tiredness).

    Taking Insulin, thyroid pills and pituitary drugs fixed everything. I am now no longer diagnosed as bi polar. I never had it. I was just mis diagnosed with something that would mimic that problem.

    So, what does my story have to do with the debate?

    Many things that may seem like mental illness may be caused by other problems, or imbalances. I do not deny that there is such thing as mental illness. But there are things that may seem like illnesses that can be cured by restoring things the body naturally produces or uses, such as vitamins/hormones.

    I'm not even going to take a shot at the rest of the debate... just yet.
  19. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Yes it is, otherwise I wouldn't continue to defend my stance.

    You've posted :-

    "Or that post-partum depression can be cured by popping a few vitamins"
    "Oh, and Malkie, vitamins will NOT freaking help a psychological problem."

    So clearly you are disputing what I'm saying, but are unwilling to prove evidence other than your opinion.

    I'll stick with science over your opinion.

    Why should anyone trust you ? Saying "trust me" is a rather redudant and worthless expression to use on the internet.

    Parents pump their kids full of Mountain Dew then wonder why their kids are crazy, but rather than control their kids they look for a disease reason.

    The number of real cases (if any) are tiny, and doctors will prescribe depressants which will calm anyone down, diseased or not.

    ADHD is the current 'trendy' disorder to have, just like ME was in the 90s.
  20. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Current trendy disease? Hardly.

    All right, I was wrong on the vitamin thing. But I stand by what I said about Scientology's methods. In their case, it's not so much vitamins as the way they are prescribed.
  21. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    I never said that ADD and ADHD isn't real, I said it's over-diagnosed.
  22. BenduHopkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    Just because Scientology is wacked out doesn't mean that some of its beliefs are not valid. I agree that there is overdiagnosis these days, but Scientology is more harmful IMO. The reason Scientology succeeded is that a lot of the teachings in the early phase are based on other theories that are less crazy. It starts out as a sort of pop psychology - self help, but then becomes something very sinister. The pop psychology is the "hook" and when that works for people, they begin to trust it.

    Same with Falun Dafa. It starts off as Eastern Philosophy and Taoism/Buddhism, but then becomes a cult the more you learn. Hence, both instituions have a lot of money and defenders, but are seriously wacked out doomsday cults.
  23. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    It absolutely, 100% is today's trendy disorder.

    Read:- this (the part of trendiness, not the stuff about over-active children.

    Or read this.

    Or this comment on trendy AHDH from the US Government.

    Or this article highlighting the fraud which is ADHD.

    Or this article which describes it as the "designer disease"
  24. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    And I'm telling you I've lived with it all my life and find it highly insulting that you can just waltz in and tell me I have something that's made up.

    Especially when it has jack all to do with Scientology and the topic at hand.



  25. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Well, I can agree with you there. I guess I'm just a bit touchy because I KNOW that it exists.

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