Saga What Balance is the Chosen One Supposed to bring?

So essentially bringing balance involves unbalancing the force by ridding the Sith.

Admittedly, there are many more dark side users than 2 Sith but the light sider force users far outweigh the dark side and tilt the balance. The 2 Sith embody much of the dark side power so the concept of balance and ridding the Sith is just ambiguous and silly imo.

 

The dark side exists inside everyone. When that ubiquitous dark power is manifested in the flesh by a Sith Lord, who uses his power to manipulate the galaxy, that creates an imbalance in the Force towards the Dark Side. Ridding the galaxy of that Sith Lord restores balance.

It really is that simple.

 

this has already been explained to no end. if you don't get it by now i don't know what to say.

 

It hasn't been explained at all! The evidence is contradictory and George Lucas doesn't make sense in what he is saying in this matter.

 

Yes but the force is not discriminating. That same argument can be applied to the Jedi collectively, their power originates from the light side. The Jedi then go on to reign protection all over the galaxy by exterminating many dark side force users they cross paths with. And it does not matter what the Sith lord is intending to do wth the galaxy, the force has little interference in politics and sovereignty of the galaxy; the force is a metaphysical entity.

Am I overcomplicating an overly simple concept?

 

I think it meant both. Killing the Jedi caused a literal balance, and killing the Sith also brought balance

 

You're misunderstanding the point.

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars."

--George Lucas, Time Magazine Article 2002.

The Force is in everyone and everyone is connected to the Force, but some have a stronger connection than others. These are the Force users. The ones who can hear the Force and use it. The Sith are the cause of the imbalance because they try to destroy the balance of the Force, by eliminating the Jedi.

LOR SAN TEKKA: "Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force."

The Sith and the Ren must be eliminated because they're trying to disrupt the balance of the Force and the Jedi are the only ones who can prevent that from happening. The Chosen One, aka Anakin Skywalker, was born to bring balance to the Force. In the PT, the Force is starting to go out of balance because of the Sith. The Jedi fall because of the Clone Wars and Order 66. In the OT, the Chosen One finally pulls his head out of his ass and fulfills his destiny. Luke then attempts to rebuild the Jedi Order until his nephew falls to the dark side and helps to undo all of his hard work.

 

I do understand this view point but the definition of 'balance' is: "a situation in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions".
So why is it okay for the Jedi to slaughter the Sith and other dark side force users? Surely this will create an imbalance as well. I understand what George Lucas is saying but I feel like the idea of balance is so simplistic that it becomes incredibly complicated and contradictory. The only way it can make sense is if the notion of balance is context dependent and dependent upon the individuals concerned: so a Sith lord may see balance as the extermination of the Jedi and the Jedi would believe in the extermination of the Sith to bring balance.

Is what I'm saying making sense?

 

The Jedi are in balance to the Force, not because of sheer numbers, but because of what their connection is to the Force and what they do as Jedi. The Jedi Order and the Dagoyan Masters use the Force for knowledge and defense. They work with the Force, seeking harmony and peace within and without. The Jedi in particular use the Force to help people, by working within the larger cog of the universe. They form a symbiant circle. The Sith and the Ren are the cancer that exists which seeks to disrupt the balance. They violate the Force with their selfish actions. The Jedi are the healthy cells that fight the cancerous cells that make up the Sith. But when the Sith become too powerful, that's when everything goes to hell.

It is simple because the themes of the Saga are simplistic. The Sith don't want to destroy the Jedi to bring balance. They don't even see it as balance. They only go after the Jedi because they oppose them. Because they are the only ones who can. That's why both sides try to purge the universe of the other, because of their opposite natures are such that they cannot co-exist.

 

Perhaps I'll repeat my original post here. Don't forget that it is possible to take an outside position on these things; while they may not solve the problem, they might help you gain a little bit of perspective:

I believe that the the wording of the prophecy used originally, "Bring balance to the force," was put in, or used in T.P.M. basically because it sounds good (see, "the chosen one", "the force runs strong in my family", the Jedi assault on fear, etc., etc.). But, this of course left the problem of what 'bringing balance to the force' actually entailed. So, in subsequent films, "Destroy the Sith," was tacked on, and this became the interpretation or wording used from then on in both the films, and in Lucas' and others' minds.

 

That is probably what happened behind the scenes.

In universe, it is simply that the darkside causes imbalance and must be kept in check by denying it users that expand it. The light side is balance, it doesn't cause imbalance like the dark and doesn't need to be kept in check. The users of the light side stride for balance, while darksiders become addicted to the darkside and abuse the force leading to imbalance as they don't give a flying F about balance.

 

The Jedi are keepers of the peace not soldiers. They seek balance in the Force and work in unison with the Force. The Sith do not. They want to control the Force.

It's the basic selflessness vs selfishness.

That is the basic core of Star Wars. Luke was able to let go and work in harmony with the Force (which means working with other to mutual advantage) and trust in the will of the Force. Anakin could not let go and wanted to bend the Force to his will.

The idea is simple. The layering and detailing are not.

 

I agree that the Jedi's primary goal is to maintain peace and justice across the galaxy. However, I believe that the Jedi in the Prequels had "lost their way" in a sense. They had changed from peacekeepers to political puppets. They went from trusting the will of the force to taking matters into their own hands (I'm looking at you Mace ). No matter how powerful Palpatine was, he couldn't have accomplished what he did if not for the Jedi's arrogance and ever-dimishishing connection to the living force.

-Darth Plagueis

 

Except Lucas already did decide that Balance to the Force meant getting rid of the Sith, back when he was making TPM.

"The Midichlorians have brought Anakin into being as “the chosen one” who will balance the universe. The mystery around that theory is that we don’t know yet whether the chosen one is a good or a bad person. He is to bring balance to the Force; but at this point, we don’t know what side of the Force needs to be balanced out."

--George Lucas, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

"If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is gray. In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine Interview, 1999.


"I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The “phantom menace” refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader—also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction and Qui-Gon are correct—Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine interview, 1999.

"The first film starts with the last age of the Republic; which is it's getting tired, old, it's getting corrupt. There's the rise of the Sith, who are now becoming a force, and in the backdrop of this you have Anakin Skywalker: a young boy who's destined to be a very significant player in bringing balance back to the Force and the Republic.

In the second film, we get into more of that turmoil. It's the beginning of the Clone Wars, it's the beginning of the end of democracy in the Republic, sorta the beginning of the end of the Republic, and it's Anakin Skyalker beginning to deal with some of his more intense emotions of anger, hatred, sense of loss, possessiveness, jealousy, and the other things he's coping with.

Then we will get to the 3rd film, where he is seduced to the dark side, which brings up to films four, five, and six, where Anakin's offspring redeem him & allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

--George Lucas, The Star Wars Trilogy VHS box set 2000.

There is a bit of truth in this.

EZRA: "Yoda, you're powerful. You must know a way to destroy Vader and his Inquisitors."

YODA: "Padawan, thousands of Jedi once there were. Then came war. In our arrogance, join the conflict swiftly we did. Fear, anger, hate. Consumed by the dark side the Jedi were."

EZRA: "Was it wrong for the Jedi to fight? Is it wrong for me to protect my friends?"

YODA: "Wrong? Hmm. A long time, fought I did. Consumed by fear I was, though see it I did not."

EZRA: "You were afraid?"

YODA: "Yes, afraid. Hmm, surprised are you? A challenge lifelong it is, not to bend fear into anger. There's still a way."

EZRA: "Yeah, but Master Yoda, how are we supposed to win if we don't fight back?"

YODA: "Win? Win, hmm. How Jedi choose to win, the question is."

EZRA: "We already chose. We're going to fight."

 

darth-sinister

I see, there are some quotes I'd been asking you for in the other thread. Good.

"If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is gray. In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine Interview, 1999.

VERSUS

YODA: "Padawan, thousands of Jedi once there were. Then came war. In our arrogance, join the conflict swiftly we did. Fear, anger, hate. Consumed by the dark side the Jedi were."

So we have the new Disney / Lucasfilm line with the tendency to make everything gray, while Lucas was making clear, that this is not what he had in mind.

 

It seems to be less "make everything grey" and more "put the PT Jedi as being dark". "Everything grey" would involve playing up the "Sith are not-so-evil" angle.

 

There is no contradiction. The Jedi were trying to do the right thing by fighting in the war, but they were doing it for the wrong reasons. So there is the mix between good and evil which turns black and white into gray. Remember, Palpatine was making the Jedi look evil while they were trying to be good and the Separatists were viewed as both good and evil. Consumed by the dark side doesn't mean that they were evil, but that they were being influenced by their emotions. Lucas even says that balancing of one's emotions is important and Yoda himself tells Ezra that it is a constant struggle to not give into fear and have that fear become anger.

 

Balance to the natural state of the Force, in my opinion. The Force is "there". It's in everyone. It's up to the individuals to decide to use it for light or dark, good or evil,or both. The Force is aloof to a point - it let's things play out as they should. It has a will, but it's a will beyond the understanding of most people. Think of it like Mother Nature. But then the Sith start doing unnatural things to it. They find a way to recreate life itself, to "force the Force" (LOL) to create life where there is none. To do things that are an abomination. On the other end of the spectrum, you have the Jedi Order. It has become bloated and in some ways corrupt itself. They no longer follow the Will of the Force, but the Will of the Galactic Government. They are becoming disconnected to the Living Force without even realizing it. So the Force is in a bind - Sith are doing bad things to it, and risk tipping it completely over to the Dark Side. But the Jedi no longer follow the true path of the Force. So it creates it's own champion,it's own lifeform , to destroy the Sith because of the unnatural things their doing to it, something the Jedi are blind to.And it takes decades, but true balance is brought forth - The Sith,and their unnatural, destructive manipulation of the Force, are destroyed and the Jedi Order that had long ago strayed from the true path and Will of the Force is also destroyed. In the end,there's one man left, new,fresh, a virtual clean slate, embracing both the dark and light in himself. A true Balance.

So the Balance to the Force itself is two-fold : that it is once again left in it's natural, true state. The Chosen One brought balance by destroying the Sith,and their unnatural manipulations of attempting to control life itself, the very thing that fuels and creates the Force.But he also brought balance by having the corrupted Jedi Order gone, and to be replaced with a new order that will (hopefully) follow the true Will of the Force, not the will of the Senate.

 

I think it also depends on how you conceive The Force, in which case, we should start up a separate 'Metaphysics of Star Wars' sub-forum.

 

It's destroying the sith, which warlike a cancer to the force. Using the force to bring nothing but darkness Overshadowing the galaxy, making the cosmic and living force out of balance and disturbed. The force has a darkside,but I see it as it doesn't like it and needs it in check.

 

It is nonsensical and inaccurate to say that the light side is balance. Balance is a condition which the Force may or may not be in at a given point. The light side is a part of the Force. The balance is between the light and dark sides.

Not if the Sith were the ones disrupting the balance in the first place. The balance of the Force is not a balance of Force-users.

Arguably this viewpoint is contradicted by the definition of the Force itself. It's supposed to be an energy field generated by all living things - generated, if you will, by the act of living. It's been described as the combined vibrations of living things. In what universe would these energies ever be uniformly positive in nature?

 

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars."

--George Lucas, Time Magazine Article 2002.

"The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil. The Force itself breaks into two sides: the Living Force and a greater, Cosmic Force. The Living Force makes you sensitive to other living things, makes you intuitive, and allows you to read other people's minds, etc. But the greater Force has to do with destiny. In working with the Force, you can find your destiny and you can choose to either follow it or not."

--George Lucas, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

 

This is why the whole "chosen one" / space Jesus plot device is ridiculous. Why give birth to someone for that purpose just so the force can be so easily unbalanced again? Does the force have to give birth to another chosen one every time balance gets out of wack or can a regular jedi do it? And if so, why go through the trouble of a chosen one in the first place? I get the "keeping balance" thing but the chose one was the dumbest storyline GL put in SW. Anakin's story of redemption was just fine without that nonsense.

 

Nate787

I agree, but then again, it's just a prophecy and apparently even the Jedi couldn't really make head or tail out of it:

QUI-GON : A boy... his cells have the highest concentration of
midi-chlorians I have seen in a life form. It is possible he was conceived
by the midi-chlorians.
MACE WINDU : You're referring to the prophesy of the one who will bring
balance to the Force...you believe it's this boy??
QUI-GON : I don't pressume...
YODA : But you do! Rrevealed your opinion is.
QUI-GON : I request the boy be tested.

I don't really recall a scene or context where the Jedi ever elaborated on the imbalance to the Force. Simply put: To bring balance the Force must have been out of balance before. But how and why, that's the point we never really learned.

It's almost as if once they learned about Darth Maul, they all concluded "That's it" and never really got back to the issue.

 

I guess the whole immaculate conception annoys me the most. It came off forced, trying to make him look more special than he was.