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What? Ben is Owen's brother?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by mattalgrand, Sep 1, 2003.

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  1. mattalgrand

    mattalgrand Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Aug 14, 2003
    I know this has been discussed millions of times before, especially when relating to the very skeptical and unreliable novelization of ROTJ, BUT, I have found another source that confirms this and is not something relating to the EU, but rather directly towards the film.

    In, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, George Lucas states that during script meetings for ROTJ, they had decided that Owen WAS IN FACT Ben's brother!

    What the hell!

    Another reason why the OT does not fit in with the PT.
     
  2. darkcide

    darkcide Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 17, 2003
    What we see on film is ultimately what matters,and in no existing Star Wars film does anyone say that Ben and Owen are brothers.
     
  3. Vader666

    Vader666 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 3, 2003
    Nope

    The OS confirmed that they are not brothers.
     
  4. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Ben & Obi-Wan were originally supposed to be brothers, hence the reference in the RotJ novelization. However, Lucas changed his mind.

    No biggie.
     
  5. Latorski

    Latorski Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 14, 2002
    Another reason why the OT does not fit in with the PT.

    How so? The idea of Owen and Ben being brothers was not mentioned in the ROTJ film. If it was an idea in the annotated screenplays, that's all it ended up being. There's lots of abandoned ideas for any movie. Besides, AOTC takes precedence over the ROTJ novel.
     
  6. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jul 9, 1999
    They are not brothers by blood or marriage, but they can be brothers in other ways.
     
  7. darkcide

    darkcide Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 17, 2003
    You mean like lodge brothers? They could both be members of the same fraternal organization,like the Loyal Order of Banthas.
     
  8. Latorski

    Latorski Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 14, 2002
    [face_laugh]

    I love it! Ben and Owen were both in the same frat.
     
  9. jedi_master_ousley

    jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Yeah, Obi-Wan and Owen decided it was time to go to college while they were on Tatooine... they were in the same frat, and Obi-Wan used a mind trick on Owen to get him to ask out some ugly girl... that's why Owen doens't like Obi-Wan anymore.
     
  10. AssassinDroid21

    AssassinDroid21 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 6, 2002
    Post that in 3SA and some newbies will think you're an Episode 3 insider.
     
  11. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 27, 2000
    [face_laugh]

    Personally, I wish Lucas would have stuck with Owen being Ben's brother rather than Anakin's step-brother. I think it would have made more sense because, if Vader and the Emperor are looking for Luke, wouldn't they possibly check with Anakin's family?

    -sj loves kevin spacey
     
  12. Darth_MacDaddy

    Darth_MacDaddy Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 10, 2003
    Just to add that this has been discussed here.

    Pretty nifty arguement in the middle :D
     
  13. Scott3eyez

    Scott3eyez Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 1, 2001
    They're only brothers in the novelisation.

    Remember that the novelisations are not EXACTLY the same as the films. Some events occur slightly differently, extra dialogue appears in one but not the other etc. etc. (I've heard that Yoda is blue in the ESB novelisation.)
    They can be considered to be in parallel, but very similar universes.

    So in the universe that the novelisation takes place in, Ben and Owen are black.
    ;)
     
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    >>If it was an idea in the annotated screenplays, that's all it ended up being. There's lots of abandoned ideas for any movie.<<

    Well, it was a little bit more than an abandoned idea- yes, the annotated screenplays contain concepts dropped during the development of the film, but the Owen/Ben thing was part of the final draft of the film, though the scene was ultimately cut.

    Lucas's comments about Owen and Ben being brothers were made after ROTJ was completed, so he still prescribed to the concept until somewhat recently, relatively speaking.
     
  15. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2001
    And what's with everyone calling Anakin 'Skywalker'?
    He's very obviously 'Starkiller'. Just another way Lucas is messing everything up :(
    And why don't the snowspeeders match those in the productioin paintings?
    And don't get me started on Vader!
    Sarcasm aside, you cannot possibly consider abandoned ideas canon.
    As far as the novels go, I could be wrong, but I think SW is the only franchise that possibly has these problems.
    Other movies have novelizations of them, people read them, and that's that.
    With SW it's 'well see it's a paralell universe unless it doesn't blatantly contradict anything whereupon in section C of the canon treaty, it means that it is in fact 'just-off-screen' canon, unless contradicted by another later EU novel, which in point you alter what is aid previously to fit in with what was said later.'
    Yeah... ummm... I'll just read 'em for what they are, thanks ;)
     
  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    >> Sarcasm aside, you cannot possibly consider abandoned ideas canon.<<

    It would depend on at what point they were abandoned, wouldn't it? In this case, by all accounts, it was an idea that Lucas stuck to for 10+ years after ROTJ came out, and was only originally cut for pacing issues.
     
  17. DarthHtrad

    DarthHtrad Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 24, 2002
    Why is this an inconsistency anyway? The prequels never state that Obi-Wan and Owen are NOT brothers. They never say who Obi-Wan's biological family is. So it is still a possibility.
     
  18. Scott3eyez

    Scott3eyez Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 1, 2001
    >>>It would depend on at what point they were abandoned, wouldn't it? In this case, by all accounts, it was an idea that Lucas stuck to for 10+ years after ROTJ came out, and was only originally cut for pacing issues.

    No- in this case, by all accounts, it was an idea that Lucas came up with in story meetings for ROTJ, and abandoned by the time the film was finished, for whatever reason. I don't believe that there's any evidence that it was even filmed, let alone "only cut for pacing issues."

    (Please correct me if I'm wrong though...)
     
  19. Darth_MacDaddy

    Darth_MacDaddy Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 10, 2003
    There is no need to put Owen and OB1 as brothers in the OT it has no real bearing on the story direction, it is more an issue for the PT IMO.
     
  20. gator

    gator Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 20, 2003
    It doesn't matter how long it took for Lucas to abandon the idea. The fact remains that it has been blown out of the water by what we saw in AOTC. The idea of Ben and Owen being brothers is now dead and might as well have never existed, as far as the movies are concerned.
     
  21. DarthHtrad

    DarthHtrad Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 24, 2002
    I'm sure it will just be left a mystery. Episode 3 will not state that they are brothers, nor will it state that they are not brothers. This way, everybody is happy. The people who want to believe they are brothers still can, and the people who don't want them to be can believe that too.
     
  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    >>No- in this case, by all accounts, it was an idea that Lucas came up with in story meetings for ROTJ, and abandoned by the time the film was finished, for whatever reason. I don't believe that there's any evidence that it was even filmed, let alone "only cut for pacing issues."<<

    I'm fairly certain it was actually filmed (I believe even the editing of the scene in the final film cuts around the excat spots the expanded dialogue would have occured in).

    >>There is no need to put Owen and OB1 as brothers in the OT it has no real bearing on the story direction, it is more an issue for the PT IMO.<<

    It was included as an OT issue- it was supposed to add to the tragic nature of Obi-wan's character, by making him indirectly responsible for his brother's death.

    Granted, the PT has certainly ended up portraying Obi-wan as a far less tragic character, so dropping the brother-connection would remove yet one more piece of blame off of Ben's shoulders and follow that PT trend. Still, if the brother connection can be maintained, it at least preserves some of that original characterization.

    >>The fact remains that it has been blown out of the water by what we saw in AOTC. The idea of Ben and Owen being brothers is now dead and might as well have never existed, as far as the movies are concerned.<<

    Lack of mention is not a contradiction, thus it hasn't been "blown out of the water", merely not addressed.
     
  23. gator

    gator Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 20, 2003
    So if nobody in Ep 3 says that Owen and Ben are not brothers, will you assume they are?

    If yes, is that because of the ROTJ book?
    or because of the old ideas (in screenplay drafts or deleted scenes) that never made it into the final film?
     
  24. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jul 9, 1999
    The films are not the only source. Everything, except Infinities, counts.
     
  25. gator

    gator Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 20, 2003
    I never said they were the only source.

    But do you think Owen and Ben's "brotherhood" is a legitimate relationship or simply a discarded idea?
     
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