Lit What bothers you the most about the Yuuzhan Vong? Spoilers in case

Discussion in 'Literature' started by JediMasterKendo, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. JediMasterKendo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2000
    star 3
    It's their arrogance and sometimes ignorance when it comes to them and their obsession with the Jedi. I just got done reading Rebel Dream and sometimes i get annoyed at their attitude.

    Wonder if Palpatine would have done well if the Vong invaded when Palpatine was emperor or heck what would the Vong do during thousands of year sago during when Revan and Malek and others were around?
  2. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I was never annoyed by the Yuuzhan Vong. I got annoyed trying to remember what their names for everything were, but that's my fault.
  3. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    That the novels don't use them anymore. :(

    obsession with the Jed
    Like SW Lit in general has become :( very bothersome indeed.


    Wonder if Palpatine would have done well if the Vong invaded when Palpatine was emperor
    Done very well because of how easily manipulated and corrupt many his minions are. ;)


    or heck what would the Vong do during thousands of year sago during when Revan and Malek and others were around?

    Done very well because they could play opposing factions against each other better then in many other periods.
  4. Darth_Foo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
    Three things-

    1. "Living" weapons and ships.
    2. Exist outside the Force. Yes, I know there was eventually an explanation....don't care. Still dumb.
    3. Being from another galaxy. Vision of the Future ended with great promise of exploring the Unknown Regions and the potential threats there. Instead we get the Vong.

    I'll leave it at that. Honestly I gave up post-rotj EU specifically because of the Vong. Since then the only books or comics I've read have been in the PT era.
  5. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    It made them rather unquie you got to admit that. :)

    A little, but then Force stuff generaly is more magic then common sense, but still better then just another Tribe of Sith which is what they apprently orginaly had in mind and we actually now got in TOR, LOTF, FOTJ, and even kind of in LEGACY + Dark Nest. ;)

    They can still do that, and actually have some of it in the Vong war + Dark Nest and also in three newer Zahn novels and I am sure we will get more about it when Zahn writes it. :)

    You really should pick up the LEGACY comics, they are pretty amazing.
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  6. Darth_Foo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
  7. LivingJediDream Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2010
    star 4
    I suppose that after four years of reading about them, that they vanished from the galaxy, along with most other significant consequences from the Yuuzhan Vong War (e.g. character development, character relationships, the status of Coruscant).
  8. Shepherd492 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2011
    star 1
    It was pretty lame how the Vong have gotten only token references in the post-NJO era. Wars leave scars that last longer than a year or two...The only media that really tried to explain what they had been up to was Legacy, and even it (understandably) didn't go into too much detail.
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  9. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    This.
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  10. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    When we say it's sad that the novels don't use them any more, let's put it in context so if the authors read this they don't kark it up, lol.

    I don't think it's required for the Vong to reappear as a military force fighting the GFFA, we've been there and done that. I want more exposure for Zonoma Sekot and the Vong living there. Sure, draw them into a crisis, but don't make them another 'warlord of the moment', that demeans them.
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  11. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah. All it takes is a scene on Zonama Sekot, or a Vong smuggler working on Nar Shaddaa. Just some acknowledgement.

    Really, I always felt they blew a natural opportunity to visit Zonama Sekot as one of Jacen's probable sojourn spots in FOTJ, as he himself never spent much time there in the NJO apart from the ending, and yet I'm sure Sekot would have had some ideas on the Force to discuss with him.

    It could have had a "following in Vergere's footsteps" feel to it, which in turn would have made Lumiya's later twisting of the truth more poignant.
  12. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9


    This.
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I'll just add a fourth thing:

    4. Their appearance.

    Those are my four reasons.
  14. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Hm, trying to keep track of all their weirdly named ships was annoying. Especially since even in universe half the time the New Republic just identified them as corvette-analog, frigate-analog, etc.

    Hm, no, what annoyed me the most was how lucky they always were. Like how at the Battle of Fondor, when Jacen kept whining to Anakin at the last second about the morality of using Centerpoint, Thracken just fires the weapon almost randomly and takes out half the Vong fleet... but the Hapans lost three-quarters of their fleet, so it was yet another disastrous defeat. The Vong were brutal, but after 20 years of the Galactic Civil War, tough choices in war shouldn't be that new or unexpected. But then most of the smart veterans were either dead or had retired by then, and the new generation wasn't that impressive, relatively speaking. Not to mention the whole question of why they were outside the Force, and how it troubled Luke for so long. If this had just been another Imp warlord of the week, or even say a Sith invasion from the Unknown Regions, well that would've just meant capturing or killing them, instead of debates about whether striking down someone that cannot be sensed in the Force counts as a darkside act or not. Oh well, the Unknown Regions are still unknown and might be better left that way, but it would've been really cool to see the novels expand that region.

    Their complete absence post-NJO is kind of annoying too. Don't want to see them as a major faction (although sending them up against the Lost Tribe or Abeloth might've been interesting), but just a few appearances. The effect they had on the galaxy is still present, but not that many references to the Yuuzhan Vong themselves. Of course the Legacy comics fix this somewhat (as usual).
  15. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    5. Their Un-Starwarsness. I wasn't reading Star Wars books to read un-Starwarsy things.

    6. That you were stuck with them for nine. Teen. Novels.

    7. That they were invented at a business meeting between marketing people at a Chinese restaurant, and named after the dish.

    8. That their invasion made a saga into a soap.

  16. Joe_Garelli Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2007
    star 1
    I liked the Yuuzhan Vong, they were religious fanatics and they were ruthless, very violent and yet full of honor, unstoppable early on and for a very long time, a very good villian to face in battle, tough even for the Jedi, i would have liked to see them face the Empire more though, or some of the One Sith and end up being slaughtered by them, these aliens were not unbeatable but were just tough.

    And i loved how they dealt with people, acting serious and like fanatics, would kill anyone and nobody was off limits for them, living ships that were badass, reminded me of that episode of Star Trek TNG where that Betazed bonded with that living ship, one of the last of its kind, almost like a Vong ship but peacefull and non-violent by nature, i also loved watching the Yuuzhan Vong put the Hutt's in their place and being violent and ruthless with them too, Jabba was ruthless and so was Durga, it would be interesting to see them face down the Vong, in the end it was the Yuuzhan Vong that dominated the Hutt's and nobody ever did that before.
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  17. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    I'm sorry, but I hate the "they're un-Star Warsy" as a complaint. It's completely non-sensical to me. What does that even mean?
  18. Darth_Foo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
    Yes this. All fictional characters have to fill a certain role but it seemed too obvious to me that the "creative" team just said to themselves 'we need an anti-jedi villian. ok so they aren't in the force. How about their weapons are alive. Oh I got it, lightsabers can't penetrate their armor. Neat' and yadda-yadda-yadda. They really just don't fit. If you want violent religious fanatics it was already done, well, with the Yevetha.
  19. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    I do not necessarily have a problem with them, i just that that the universe after the Thrawn Trilogy has become darker and grittier than the EU between 19BBY and 0BBY/ABY. And that it has steadily gotten worse within time.

    Needs a complete and utter revamp.
    So, yeah, butterfly away everything.
  20. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah, well that won't happen. So you can put any expectations of it away.
  21. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    I know.
    but i just decided not to read NJO and everything after it.
  22. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Because the movies aren't dark at all...


    *Owen and Beru's burning corpses
    *destruction of Alderaan
    *death of Obi-wan
    *death of Luke's friend, Biggs
    *Han being tortured on Cloud City
    *Han being frozen in carbonite
    *Luke being told by Yoda to not save his friends, let them die
    *Luke getting his hand cut off by the main villain
    *the main villain then revealing that he's Luke's father
    *Leia becoming the sex slave to a giant slug with a nasty tongue
    *Anakin being born a slave
    *Qui-gon's death
    *attempted assassination of Padme
    *the Republic using a brainwashed, slave army of 10-year-old's
    *Jango's beheading by Mace Windu, when he didn't need to die, and with his son watching
    *Shmi's death
    *Dooku's beheading
    *Grievous being shot to death by Obi-wan, then catching on fire, with his eyes boiling then bursting away
    *Order 66, with unsuspecting Jedi being betrayed and gunned down by their own troops across the galaxy
    *Bail Organa watching as clones gun down a padawan
    *Mace Windu deflecting Palpatine's lightning, and Palpatine's deformation
    *Anakin slashing off Mace Windu's hand, who's then electrocuted to death and shoved out a window
    *Anakin slaughtering defenseless Jedi children
    *Anakin slaughtering the defenseless Separatist leaders
    *Anakin choking his pregnant wife into unconsiousness, as she pleads that she loves him, and subsequently dies
    *Obi-wan cutting off Anakin's legs and remaining arm, who then catches on fire by a river of lava


    So, the movies were never dark?
  23. nostalgia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2011
    star 2
    I don't think that's what P5 means, but the books that took place afterward were consistently dark and depressing. A lot of what you mentioned happened to map out and develop the events that led up to Anakin Skywalker becoming evil, what happened as a result, etc.

    I think P5 is referring to how much more serious and "angsty" the story lines became with the appearance of the Vong. We see a dark age of massive, colossal, and merciless genocide at the hands of an extra-galactic species because of religious differences. Even for Star Wars, that is a heavy concept. Han, Luke, and Leia didn't die in the OT, because in the OT, good always triumphed, and the innocent were always safe in the end. That image is completely destroyed when Chewbacca and Anakin (both main and majorly developed characters) die in their quests for the greater good.

    The Swarm War trilogy certainly had its dark moments. In the LOTF series, the authors depict a newly arisen Sith Lord bashing a woman's head into a table until she dies of bludgeoning. We see similar types of torture used in the NJO series, all of which was inflicted on innocents. Tahiri, still in a 15+ year(s) bout of depression falls to the dark side so that she can see the last boy she ever loved. She offers a teenager sex. Mara (another main prot.) is killed when she finds out her only son has been harmed and goes out Sith hunting. Lets not forget about what happend to Isolder. Jacen is murdered by his own sister...

    To top it all off, Luke Skywalker gets put into exile when the civil war ends. Those characters haven't experienced any real happiness in.. a long time.
  24. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    nothing bothers me about the vong. They were the best vscience fiction villians in decades.
  25. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Honour? The Battle of Ithor, plus their supposed 'ceasefire' post-BP says it all about Vong 'honour'.

    Define "dark". :) Everyone has a different definition, but I'd suggest it's more a question of tone and that's where the difference lies.

    For instance, a few of your OT examples are implied rather than outright - so, in contrast, Jabba having Leia as a sex slave would, NJO-style, have the full violations detailed in-depth. Han being frozen in carbonite - we'd have an in-camera, stuff that woussy dry ice - we need to see the pain and anguish! Alderaan getting blown up, come on, it was pathetic, we didn't even see anyone scream or catch on fire. This is the sense I had when reading NJO at its most excessive, it lingered on the blood, pain and violence, whereas the movies had violence, they weren't focused on it. Even the PT has a sense of restraint on the whole, although ROTS certainly lost that at times and suffered for it - like the immolation of Anakin.

    And arguably, in some cases, the violence has a bigger impact due to the speed and shocking impact that would be lost with a more horrific take. We don't need to see the bleeding stump of Luke's bleeding wrist for a long slo-mo close-up, instead Kershner tells Hamill to act it! And the ending of ESB is hopelessly optimistic compared to NJO, the heroes escape, Cloud City isn't even destroyed and Luke gets a new hand and is all better all too quickly.

    What I saw NJO as was the answer to what happens if you take ESB as the SW story in isolation. I don't want that in the EU - I want an EU that draws on all 6 films to the full - Legacy and KOTOR are example of how to do that and do it well. NJO suffered by the thinking that because ESB regularly tops the lists as best film, then what is wanted is more of that and I'm not certain that's so.

    What bothered me the most about the Vong? That they were so indulged. But then power of the plot is all that stopped the GFFA being destroyed completely as the Vong to bulldoze like mad, but while they were allowed great latitude to bulldoze about 75% of the galaxy, the latter 25% was considerably more protected by the power of plot. Here's the problem: By 1999 both Babylon 5 and Deep Space Nine had shown you could do a big war story on SF TV and not have to hold b