Speculation What Changed to Prompt Lucas to Outline an ST?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by LunarMoth, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    At some point, assumedly around the time of the OT DVD release, Lucas must have had some kind of revelation as to how the Star Wars Saga would continue beyond ROTJ and ultimately come to a different conclusion. We have always been told that this was the story of Anakin Skywalker, with the OT being about his redemption by his son, and the PT being his rise and fall. Once we got ROTJ, closure had come, or so we thought.

    Clearly ROTJ was supposed to be the end until a certain point in time where Lucas either thought of something else, or do you think this was always the plan?

    My opinion on this:

    I think ROTJ was supposed to be the end until Lucas began to put together the PT. I believe that during the writting process for the PT, Lucas developed a concept for an ST that would allow him to take the story into areas that earlier drafts of the OT had explored to some degree. Many things throughout the Star Wars Saga were alternate version of previous ideas that were re-imagined and molded to fit the scaled down final productions.

    In doing so, Lucas used Anakins insertion into ROTJ for the DVD release and the PT to set up situations that will come to light in the ST.

    On some what of a side note, I'm not sure where the sale to Disney fits into this, as I think Lucas was going to do an ST anyway, given when the above all happened. I think he just wanted someone else to bring it to life so he could get on with his.
  2. LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2002
    star 4
    /insert The Apprentice theme song here
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  3. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    He gave all the money away because he didn't need it.
  4. Darth Claire Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Huh....I'm guessing one of the reasons the ST trilogy is being made is cause Avengers, Star Trek, Transformers, ect were beginning to steal the child/teen audiences so it was time for SW to come back or risk being irrevelant *or something like that*.....but most likely this: $$$$$
  5. LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2002
    star 4
    He didn't give it all away, just a portion and anyway doesn't mean he didn't want the money so he could decide where it goes.
  6. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I guess I cant argue that, but I was looking for a more Star Warsy reponse......;)
  7. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Really? Everyone is gonna say $$$$$$$

    Come on.
    Last edited by LunarMoth, Feb 19, 2013
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  8. LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2002
    star 4
    I just don't think he wanted to make the ST.

    After the PT being a critical failure (although big commercial success) he probably said he has enough money now so he'll just leave the universe alone.

    Then of course people kept knocking on the door offering to throw bags of cash at him, he didn't need the money but thought if he wasn't going to have to do them (i.e. wouldn't get the blame if they were failures) then the money could help him make his arthouse films and he'd even give a large chunk to charity.
  9. Sum-Wan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2013
    star 3
    We the audience wanted more Star Wars... and he had plenty of time over the years to imagine what would the future of his beloved characters would be like... he didn't have the desire to keep making Star Wars movies because he didn't want to deal with all the trouble... but Lucasfilm is a big company now and its future needs more Star Wars movies so he put his ideas on paper and passed on the torch... thank you flanneled one
  10. Darth_Zidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4
    Lucas has said contradictory things over the last few decades about his Star Wars story. My guess is that he hasn't invented something new but is using some old original ideas.
  11. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I'm just glad he did. As I've said elsewhere, I think sooner or later Star Wars would have passed into new hands, so I'm glad that it's happening with involvement from Lucas.
  12. Corvax855 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 2
    Haven't you guys read A Secret History of Star Wars? Lol! Lucas always had plans to make a sequel trilogy, starting with the pre-production of Empire. Back then, the story was going to follow Luke straight through to Episode IX (there was going to be 12 episodes in total, but he reduced it to 9). This first iteration of the ST was condensed into RotJ, however, Lucas did state (in 1983 after RotJ came out) that he still had plans for a ST. This time, the story was going to focus on an older, 60-something Luke passing the torch to a new generation. Lucas had plans to make these film all the way up to 1999, but cancelled them when Episode I came out.

    I assume it was probably a combination of working on The Clone Wars and the Disney deal that were the prime motivators for greenlighting the ST (from Lucas' POV). When Lucas cancelled the project in 1999, he probably didn't know exactly what he was going to do with the franchise or the company. I also assume that the version of the ST we're going to get is the second iteration with Luke being an old man, and has been in the works since 1983. This seems obvious at this point, given the age of the actors, but Lucas also likes to reuse ideas and concepts that he wasn't able to get around to in the first place. Whatever was in his notes for the ST (post '83) would be a gold mine if they ever saw the light of day, and I assume they'd be a close overview of what we're actually going to get.
    Last edited by Corvax855, Feb 19, 2013
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  13. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    To kinda of expand on the Clone Wars stuff. I think when Lucas started getting involved with a group of writers who could flesh out his ideas; I think he realized that Star Wars didn't necessarily need him to be what it is. Lucas has already established the framework for the universe, and creative people understand what that universe is all about. He didn't have to be the caretaker anymore.

    I think Lucas finally understands(with his Clone Wars experience)that Star Wars is basically just modern folk lore. New people come along and contribute to the tapestry.
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  14. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    I remember an old interview concerning TPM where Lucas said something along the lines of

    "And in Episode I, you'll see some things alluding to Episode VII - I mean Episode IV, no, we aren't there yet. (Laugh)"

    Simple mistake, or freudian slip? You be the judge.
  15. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    This is going to sound cynical, but I think the idea for making the ST came when Lucas decided to retire. He knew he didn't want to make it himself, and he knew he didn't want to run the company anymore. In order to safe guard the companies future he would need to sell it. And, in order to make the company valuable, he would need more Star Wars movies. TCW alone wouldn't do it. Indiana Jones isn't valuable enough, especially at Ford's age. What's left, a Willow sequel? Nope. Disney admitted that the ST was the selling point for them buying LFL. I think George took steps to get the ball rolling on the ST. He hired Kathy Kennedy, one of the best producers in the business, to take over LFL. He put together his notes. Hired Michael Arndt to write a quality, detailed treatment on those notes. He had lunch with Mark and Carrie to feel out their reaction to the ST. And, had Disney practically licking their chops come negotiation time. Well played George.
    Last edited by Pro Scoundrel, Feb 19, 2013
  16. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    Honestly, this is probably closest to the truth. I think George only had a real passion to tell about 2 and a half films of Star Wars. I think after Return of the Jedi he didn't really have a real passion to flesh out a Star Wars story. I think with the prequels he felt he was a bit obligated, but no real drive(maybe save for parts of Revenge of the Sith)imo.

    I think he had TONS of ideas for Star Wars, just nothing to commit to actually writing. At his core that is what Lucas is: A storyteller, not a writer.
    Last edited by Zuckuss the Ruckuss, Feb 19, 2013
  17. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    The PT wasn't a critical failure.
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  18. Corvax855 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 2
    This is true, and the reason why the original idea for the ST was condensed into RotJ. At that point, Lucas (and some other people within Lucasfilm) just wanted the whole thing over and done with. Not only was the OT technically and financially difficult to make (remember, they weren't made through the traditional Hollywood system), but in a very real sense they ruined Lucas' life. Making the OT put a huge strain on Lucas' marriage, and is probably the main reason why he got divorced right when RotJ came out. Marcia Lucas had a big stake in the company, and the divorce almost bankrupted it. Fortunately for Lucas, he still had merchandising deals, along with ILM, THX, Skywalker Sound, etc, otherwise Lucasfilm wouldn't exist today.

    Another contributing factor to Lucas being "Star Wars'd out", was the fact that one of the major motivational factors for making the movies was never fulfilled, and that was to turn Skywalker Ranch into a Mecca for indie filmmakers. Other than the technical facilities, nothing like that really happened. People weren't really interested in the notion of a "Hollywood outside Hollywood", but they were, ironically, interested in Lucasfilm properties such as more Star Wars and Indy films! Lucas was kind of a victim of his own success in that regard, because I think he misread what audiences really wanted.

    Getting back to the ST...as Pro Scoundrel pointed out, there's no way Lucas would have been able to sell Lucasfilm for a high price unless more Star Wars movies were part of the deal. As you said, the big hurdle for Lucas was probably for him to realize that he didn't have to be 100% involved in a Star Wars project for it to work. Perhaps The Clone Wars taught him that lesson, and made him dust off his old ST notes and outlines.

    Another element we might be overlooking is Lucas' new girlfriend/fiance. She is a financial expert for big business afterall, and she may have played a factor in all this. For example, she may have realized how much untapped potential there is for Star Wars (I honestly think Lucas was blind to this), and convinced him to put it in someone else's hands before it rotted away. That's just a theory, though.
    Last edited by Corvax855, Feb 20, 2013
  19. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    Yeah, Lucas's original idea for Lucasfilm was basically to fully realizing Coppala's American Zoetrope. It never played out that way. But, Lucas is partly to blame for that. He never really tried to cultivate new young filmmakers. He just kinda became a technocrat; which is all I think he really cares about film(technical aspects).

    Maybe Kennedy can try to turn Lucasfilm in to some sort significant production studio(instead of just a Star Wars factory). Course, its never going to be totally independent either.
  20. Episode Swag Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2013
    star 1
    Personally I think he changes his mind all the time when it comes to Star Wars. It's obvious he made up plot points that were not intended to be there in the first place on a whim. Ie, Vader being Luke's father after the discussion Obi had with him about Vader in 4, Leia being his sister, the midichlorian concept and Vader being the chosen one? It's all very obvious he has been adding/changing plot points that were never in his original outlines for the saga. I mean, at first there were going to be 9 episodes and Leia was not going to be his sister. He was going to find his sister in the original ST outline.

    The ST is just his latest example of being, for lack of a better term, wishy washy on plot decisions. He always changes the plot of these movies, even little things when it comes to the Special Editions. Not that I'm mad or upset, it's awesome that we are getting more!
  21. markdeez33 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 3
    I think he canceled it because he knew it was just going to be too much for him to undertake (for the timeline he thought he'd be filming it in). I think he spent A LOT of his creative energies on the PT, and didn't know if he could thoroughly deliver ANOTHER trilogy. Also, the business aspect of things and other projects/ventures he wanted to delve into, kept him from doing it. But now, it's all happening, and well worth the wait, in my opinion.
  22. yodasbum Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2004
    star 2
    I was gutted when Lucas announced that the sequel trilogy was cancelled back in 1999. I read the Variety interview before Phantom Menace came out in which he said it never reall existed as anything mor ethan an idea. From his earlier interviews it seems that this Disney deal brings him to the place he intended Star Wars to be back in the early 80's- other people making them with some input from George himself. After the interview George gave last year when he looked/sounded hurt by the backlash from many people over the PT I was shocked but pleased that the ST has been resurrected.

    I'll be interested to see if George is more involved during the editting stage and promotion of VII or if he will stay at arms length away.
  23. Doug625 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 1
    I think it is a combination of things. One thing being that he is just ready to semi-retire, and the other one is that he feels like he just can't make everyone happy. After all the hatred from the fans with the PT maybe he figured to just let somebody else deal with it. He wants the story to continue but now he won't have to take the blame if the new films don't live up to expectations.
  24. NoChesterHester Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    Hasn't George admitted before that he only writes out of necessity and doesn't really enjoy it? I've read things about how his real passion is editing, or putting the story together.

    Using that lense what transpired makes total sense.
  25. Lord Chazza Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2013
    star 4
    Can't remember the source but I thought Lucas was already planning a Sequel Trilogy that would be announced around 2011. I'm sure I read something somewhere where Hamill said "I defy you to add 36 years on to your life and not be amazed" or something to that effect.

    Edit: Here's a source http://www.totalfilm.com/features/star-wars-episode-7-the-story-so-far
    Last edited by Lord Chazza, Feb 20, 2013
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