What did fans who saw the originals in theaters expect to see in the prequels?

I agree that when all we had was Leia talking about only remembering images really of her mother being beautiful and sad, and how she died when she was really young, it's easy to assume Leia lived a bit longer than she does in Episode III. But with the addition of Episode III, it's easy for me to see that as making sense. After all she did die when she was very young, and all she remembers are "images". She doesn't talk about memories of being with her mother, just images of her being beautiful and sad. Maybe she saw pictures, maybe she dreamed about her through the Force.

Of course I wasn't distracted by the awfulness of the birth/death scene, because I didn't think it was awful.

 

I will agree with some of the previous posts...

I thought we'd see more of Alderaan in the prequels. MUCH more.

You see, I hadn't learned much, or read any SW books until just after ROTS, so I really only just found out about Coruscant and its importance when seeing TPM.

 

Coruscant was always going to be a key planet in the prequels, no doubt about it, completely separate to Leia's home planet that was destroyed by the Death Star.

The 'Imperial home planet' was originally slated to be in the film that became Star Wars/ANH - that's where the heroes were going to rescue Leia from, & at that point it was named Alderaan, the action taking place in a city in the clouds. Ralph McQuarrie did a number of paintings that were later used for Cloud City in ESB.

The finale of ROTJ was also originally conceived as taking place on both the sanctuary moon of Endor orbiting 'Had Abbadon', the Imperial home planet, & the planet itself - a planet entirely covered in cities (clearly based on Asimov's Trantor). Both McQuarrie & Joe Johnston did conceptual paintings for this planet, which was officially referred to as 'Imperial Center' in a number of publications during the 1990s.

Eventually, of course, it received its official name from the EU, & finally appeared in a SW film in the SE of ROTJ in 1997. GL stated that it would be a key planet in the PT, its appearance in the re-jigged celebrations was something of a preview of the new trilogy.

 

I was just watching Cartoon Network's airing of The Clone Wars (the movie) tonight, and something hit me: part of the reason I like Anakin and Ahsoka's Master/Padawan relationship is because that's what I used to imagine Obi-Wan and Anakin's being like, back before the Prequels. Obi-Wan DID say he was as reckless and impation as Luke was in The Empire Strikes Back, and the whole "is Anakin even READY for a Padawan" angle echoes Obi-Wan remorsefully admitting he HADN'T been ready for a Padawan.

That, and given the back and forth banter between Obi-Wan and Vader in ANH, I'd have imagined something a bit more like Anakin and Ahsoka's back-and-forth bit (maybe sans nicknames, but still) before we got the genesis of that in the wonderfully-done brother relationship between the two in the PT.

Huh. Can't believe I never realized that before.

Anyways, I was a little TOO young to have seen any of the films in theaters (I was born in October '85), but I DID grow up watching the OT- I've been watching the movies for so long that I can't even REMEMBER the first time I saw them. And I can remember at least back to my third birthday.

 

I agree. I just figured those "images" she remembers are short memories from that day, that may have recurred in dreams or something...

 

I was just watching Cartoon Network's airing of The Clone Wars (the movie) tonight, and something hit me: part of the reason I like Anakin and Ahsoka's Master/Padawan relationship is because that's what I used to imagine Obi-Wan and Anakin's being like, back before the Prequels. Obi-Wan DID say he was as reckless and impation as Luke was in The Empire Strikes Back, and the whole "is Anakin even READY for a Padawan" angle echoes Obi-Wan remorsefully admitting he HADN'T been ready for a Padawan.



One of the reasons why I had never warmed up to the Clone Wars cartoon is that I find the idea of the Jedi Council allowing Anakin, of all people, to acquire a padawan so soon after becoming a Knight. I can see them allowing Obi-Wan to acquire an apprentice (even if he wasn't ready). But considering their view of Anakin's personality . . . why would they allow him to have an apprentice so soon?

 

Wartime, I imagine - younglings were, perhaps, being pushed into active duty quicker than normal, & as a result, normal Knights were taking them on as padawaans a bit earlier in their service. I don't believe a Jedi had to be a Master to take on a padawaan, anyway.

Not sure if that's the official explanation, but I suspect it's something along those lines. Agreed that the relationship between Anakin & Ahsoka in TCW is a bit closer to what I was expecting to see between Obi-Wan & Anakin in the PT overall - although the start of ROTS hit it pretty close to the mark.

 

Yeah, the opening third of RotS is pretty much the peak of the PT - right through Obi-Wan killing Grievous (that comes BEFORE Palpatine's reveal, right? I can't remember but that sounds right)

 

Obi-Wan's engagement with Grievous comes before, but Obi-Wan's killing of Grievous comes after. In other words, the reveal happens right in the middle of a big action sequence. The battle for Anakin's soul is completely missed by Obi-Wan, and by extension, the Jedi. I like how one of the most important events in the galaxy -- a personal conflict -- is sandwiched between what superficially seems like the much more important and decisive "victory" and what is manifestly the louder and more baroque passage.

 

I never saw any of the OT in the cinemas, despite being born in 1978. I watched the films on VHS, in the wrong order, over the course of twelve years - ANH, ROTJ, ESB. Didn't really become a raving Star Wars fan till the Special Editions came out, coincided with Dark Horses's excellent "Star Wars" comic launch.

I first heard about the prequels in 1996 in an issue of "Empire" magazine which mentioned both the Special Editions and the fact that Lucas had started work "Episode 1".

My Top 15 Expectations For The Prequels:

1) That Anakin would be either a young adult or a grown man in Ep I, turn into Darth Vader in Ep II and we'd see Empire in full-glory in Ep III.

2) That Anakin's downfall would be caused by his pursuit of power and from greed and that his wife would escape him and have children off-screen in the period between Ep III and Ep IV, ensuring that the secret of Leia and Luke's true relationship to Darth Vader would not be revealed.

3) We would only, barely, glimpse Coruscant/The Imperial Planet.

4) The film would be like the OT - three small, personal, adventure stories following a rag-tag bunch of heroes, smugglers, freedom-fighters, explorers as they hurtle across the galaxy getting into adventures. That the fall of Republic, the Clone Wars, rise of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi would be just the BACKDROP for these stories. Obi-Wan and Anakin would be almost the only Jedi who would appear as main characters.

5) The Jedi would be like Luke in "ROTJ" - using only the Force and their lightsaber in unique circumstances, but otherwise they'd dress like everyone else and have full-time, non-Jedi-related, jobs. The Force would be as "difficult" to control as it is on the OT and the spirituality of the Force would be major themes in the film, just as they are in ESB and ANH.

6) The tone of the writing, design and cinematography would be as dark as "ESB", if not even darker.

7) Obi-Wan's story about Darth Vader murdering his father would not as metaphorical as we suspected and that we'd have good reason to never suspect Vader IS Anakin.

8) Lucas would write and direct Ep I, then other writers and directors would make II and III.

9) They would be made so that you could watch the films in sequential order - I - VI - without things like cameos or jokes referring to the OT and that they'd try to maintain a continuity with the look of the optical special effects. I thought they'd have elements that were clearly missing when they made the prequels - more use of the "Star Wars" main theme and "The Force" theme in the score, viewing a ship go into hyperspace from the cockpit's POV, setting up Mon Mothma (OR - going back to those small personal stories idea - NOT turning political and exposition characters into main characters LIKE they do with Mon Mothma and Crix Nadine in "ROTJ"), not seeing Jabba The Hutt so that his ultimate appearance in "ROTJ" has a stronger impact, not using the "Imperial March" till it's appearance in "ESB", just basically ensuring that there was a strong feeling of continuity without spoiling the things that the OT had going for it.

10) We would see at least one space battle that's similar in scale, length and character-focus as the attack on the Death Star in "ANH". In this battle we would discover what a great pilot Anakin is.

11) Anakin would be an extremely likable character so that his fall to the Dark Side would be more-so tragic and unexpected.

12) Palpatine would be a minor character whose presence would be as fleeting as Darth Sidious's scenes are in the actual prequels. And he would be so powerful you couldn't attack him with a lightsaber.

13) C-3PO and R2-D2 would be pivotal main characters like in "ANH" and "ESB". We'd open the saga on them and they would bump into Anakin, Obi-Wan and the rest of the characters.

14) Like Han, Chewie and Lando, there'd be a central hero characters unique only to the prequels. The stories wouldn't revolve around Obi-Wan and Anakin exclusively.

15) The Clone Wars had something to do with the Mandalorian race

 

There have already been some really interesting ideas. I was born in the 80s so I never did see these films in the theater but I had certain expectations going into 1999 (at the time I was in 6th Grade...so the ideas weren't all that elaborate or complex.)

-Like others have said, I thought Anakin would be in his 20s in Episode I, turn to the darkside in Episode II (keeping with ESB where the second act is the darkest.) I expected romance in the first half of Episode II and the turn to the darkside in the much darker second half. In Episode III, there would be more Vader, more imperial glory, and possibly Palpatine vs. the Imperial Senate.

-This is an old rumor--but the word at school was that Leonardo DeCaprio was playing Anakin. As a 6th grader, I wasn't thrilled with the guy from Titanic playing the greatest Jedi--but looking back, it could have been interesting. DeCaprio has certainly proved himself in roles like the Departed and Inception.

-I didn't think Luke and Leia's mother would die on screen.

-I was also convinced that Lucas would preserve the plot twists of the original trilogy (as best as he could.) If you watch the films in sequence 1 to 6...you lose much of the excitement of the originals. This could have easily been avoided by not giving the babies names in Episode III (which I think would be a far better option.)

-Alderaan in a more central role.

 

No, it's not an "observed fact."

I was exposed to the OT and PT both during my childhood, and liked them both for a long time. But my love for the PT waned and eventually died after ROTS came out, while my love for the OT hasn't.

...

Anyway, what I expected to see in the PT.


No inconsistences with the OT.

Anakin to be in his late teens or twenties when Obi-Wan finds him.

The Jedi to be more like they were portrayed in the EU.

Multiple lightsaber colours.

The Emperor to be a self-taught darkside sorceror instead of a Sith Lord, and more of a background character.

Anakin's wife to be a minor character who had little to no impact on Anakin's decision to turn to the dark side.

The Clone Wars to be a war between the Republic and a clone army.

The Jedi Purge to be a years-long ordeal that would have occurred largely off-screen.

 

NZPoe, your 15-point post, quoted below, in uncannily accurate in summing up my general thoughts and feelings about a prequel trilogy. It's odd, because unlike you I saw the OT films in theaters as they were being released (in '77-'83), remained a fan through the 80s and 90s, and caught the second wave of Mass SW Hysteria in early '97. Yet our expectations/imaginations were in almost perfect synchronicity on this topic. Especially with your cogent summation in your point #9.

I hedge at #3; I had read the Zahn books so I fully anticipated being wowed by the city-planet/planet-city). Also #8; by reading SW Insider I was aware from early-on that Lucas intended to direct all three PT films. Other than that, you've captured my pre-98 thoughts pretty well on what we would be likely to see happen in the prequel films.

One addition I would make to my own list of expectations, is:

Massive Jedi battles (probably late in the trilogy) with numerous combatants of different factions of the Jedi Order, and many different lightsaber colors -- golden, purple, white, even black, etc.

 

I did expect a certain choice that was present in the graphic novel of ROTS (which I read before seeing the film) to be present in the film version. In the graphic novel, after Anakin releases his force choke on Padme, he force slams her into a wall. It is more clear that he kills her, as Palps says later.

The film suffers from the lack of that moment; it cuts down on the Greek tragedy of Anakin's character (by purposefully trying to avoid fate, he brings it about...the whole Oedipus thing). The "dying of a broken heart" choice simply does not work. Padme's character is too strong to not find the will to live for her babies.

I agree that Portman's performance in ROTS is weak (I think the weakest of her career, and I'm a huge fan), but that's a bad scripting decision. At that point in the movie, Anakin has already killed a bunch of kids. Would force slamming his pregnant wife into a brick wall really be all that shocking to the audience by that point? Pull out the "dying of a broken heart" and Vader's "NOOOOOOOO!" (and I have no problem with the Frankenstein's monster walk; he's using his robotic legs for the first time after all) and you have a pretty perfect SW movie.

I was expecting that force slam moment to remain consistent from graphic novel adaptation to film.

 

But in the graphic novel, do the Polis Massa droids still say something like "we are losing her for reasons we cannot explain"? Or do they just go "Dude, someone slammed her into a wall real hard"?

 

I honestly can't blame Natalie Portman (or for that matter any actor in the prequel trilogy) for a bad performance. Regardless of our view of these three films--they were filmed almost exclusively in front of blue screens--so it is an incredible challenge to get anything right. When you add the blue screens with a script that appears more like a rought draft and does contain wooden/undeveloped dialogue and the fact that Lucas is notorious for being impatient with actors and giving little guidance from the Director's chair...

end of rant

Portman, McGregor, Lee, Liam, Ian, Jackson--these are all good actors. They were faced with a difficult/unique challenge.

 

I don't believe there was dialogue saying specifically, "Padme is going to die now because Anakin has reached full tragic hero status by bringing about the destiny he was trying to avoid with that whole slamming his pregnant wife into a wall business."

It was a minor point but an important one; slamming a woman who is very pregnant with twins into a brick/stone wall will probably bring about some complications. My expectation, having seen that in the graphic novel before seeing the film version, was that Lucas would keep that moment in the movie. I'm not certain why the droid says, "For reasons we cannot understand, we're losing her", only to say later moments later, "She's lost the will to live." That doesn't make much sense to me. Sounds to me like the droid knows the reason she is dying which is that she's given up the will to live because of her grief in spite of the fact that she has just had two babies. The choice of having Anakin more directly (yes, even MORE directly than the force choke alone) bring about Padme's death out of anger with something like that force shove seemed stronger to me. My expectation was for that to be kept in the film version.

Just for the record, I am not Prequel bashing. ROTS is my favorite of all six films. While this thread is about expectations BEFORE the release of the prequels, I will also write that while I knew the Prequels were putting some folks off of SW, I was expecting ROTS to get an Oscar nom for both visual effects and film score in 2006 and was rather disappointed when it didn't. King Kong won for visual effects that year which I can deal with, but the Brokeback Mountain music won for best score! And that entire score was really only ONE guitar riff!

Sorry - to get back on topic: I was expecting Luke and Leia's mother to be a strong person. Based on Padme's characterization from the earlier films, (a young queen who manages to coordinate a successful military campaign to take back her planet, lock picking, being one of the few survivors in the arena fight where tons of Jedi die, etc.) I do not believe she would have given up on life after having just delivered twins. Also, if she believed in her last words, she really did think there was still good in Anakin, and might have found the will to stay alive after delivering in order to try to bring him back to the light (naturally she would have been told LATER that he was burned to a crisp).

My expectation was that Anakin would have done something to more definitively bring about the fate he was trying to avoid by killing Padme out of anger because she had been defined as such a strong-willed character.

 

Darth-Seldon,

I'm not trying to bash Portman. I think she's a great actor, and for my annual Oscar party/pool this year, I already have her as my choice for a statue for best actress if (when) she gets a nom. I think Lucas choosing her in 1999 was great casting. What was she to Hollywood at that point? She was a younger acting prodigy who who had the ability to convey maturity WAY beyond her years (The Professional, Beautiful Girls, etc.). She was PERFECT for Padme. I liked her performance in in Episode I and even in Episode II. There's just something about what she does in Episode III that doesn't work for me.

Just as one example, her delivery of the words, "...killed YOUNGLINGS", on the Mustafar landing platform three in ROTS is almost a Christopher Walken-esque bizarre choice in inflection that I don't understand but that makes me laugh every time. That being written, her performance doesn't really take away from my love of ROTS. If anything it adds to it (in a funny way). I will write again that as an actress, I think she's had a great career with some REALLY great work. I just happen to believe that Episode III is the weakest performance of her entire career.

Having written that, it's also important to me to write that I have never had a problem with Jake Lloyd or Ahmed Best. Lloyd, in my opinion, did a fine job of playing a special little boy who is taken away from his mother and shortly after that losses his father figure in Qui Gon, setting the stage for the next two films. Best was cast to play Jar Jar, a character he did not create, and I happen to think he did what he could with the part.

I will also go out on a limb and write that I think Ewan MCGregor and Ian Mcdiarmid make some flat-out BRILLIANT acting choices in ROTS, despite being in a SW movie and being in front of a green screen.

 

Thanks Merlin_Ambrosius69, I guess you could say "Great Minds Think Alike"

For me, it was my background and high interest in filmmaking which informed me of my expectations to a large degree. I could already see how different things were looking by 1996 in terms of the feel and design and look of movies in general. I thought that the prequels would have to walk a tightrope, with strong attention to detail, to recreate the "feel" of a Star Wars film accurately. Sadly this was not to pass, though "TPM" still feels the most Star-Warsy out of the three prequels for me despite its script and story problems.

Given my interest in writing and directing, I was already planning in my head how the prequels would tackle some of the trickier issues and yet try to recreate the winning formula of the OT. Still in my 'genius filmmakers are geniuses all the time' phase of my youth, I thought Lucas would work very hard to maintain that level of control and restraint. This was further informed to me by the pre-1997 Expanded Universe which, for a large part, took incredible pains to tie themselves spiritually and emotionally with the OT in artistic and poetic ways. People like Zahn and (my personal favourite) Kevin J. Anderson were experiencing a golden-age in their careers and many of the Expanded Universe encyclopedias and the Dark Horse comics line was just incredible and really captured the feel of a true 'Star Wars' movie.

Again these elements were, sadly, not upheld by Lucas by the time the prequels came to be.

I guess - ultimately - it goes to show that no matter how you approach and love Star Wars (either instantly or, as in my case, through slow exposure and re-exposure), there are many strong and potent elements of what made a "Star Wars" film work that fans of the OT had really latched onto. One still wonders what the saga would be like today if the prequels really did live up to the expectations set out by the OT, even if it was just a matter of recreating winning elements rather than completely shifting the style of the films.

Of course some would argue that Lucas's misguided approach was foreshadowed early in the Special Editions with things like the awful CGI Jabba, Greedo shooting first, replacing the "Lapti Nek" number with an overblown and very Earthly jazz sequence and so on.

Perhaps the prequel bashers have been right all along -- what Lucas really needed was a team of people who were more in touch with the OT than he was to creatively guide and support him.

 

Chiss: I agree.
Ironically, for a Director who doesn't like interacting with actors--he does spot talent.
I believe that what Harrison Ford was for the originals--Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor will be for the prequels. They should both have promising careers that really started with SW.

 

The point is that the droid's dialogue is probably essentially the same in both versions. In other words, slammed into a wall or not, she still doesn't die from the physical injuries caused by Anakin.

 

For accuracy:
Portman's career took of with The Professional (and rightly so, she does a great job)
McGregor's took off with Trainspotting.

 

Mostly what I expected were answers to all the questions that the OT brought up, plus I didn't think it would start that many years back. I expected:

To see Anakin turn into Darth Vader at the end of Episode 1
The Empire in episode 1
A scene where Han wins the Falcon from Lando
Leia with her mother
Yoda going to Dagobah (I was partially right as it was a cut scene)
An explanation of the tree that was strong with the dark side of the force
...and overall I expected to see the ships/galaxy to look the same as in the OT


Having said all that, I still loved the prequels!!

 

I got pretty much what I expected. I wanted to see Anakin's fall to the DarkSide and why. The Emporer's ascension through the ranks. How Luke and Leia came to Tatooine and Alderon, respectively. I wanted to see their mother. I wanted to see Bail Organa and the Senate in action. I expected to see the Clone Wars. I expected to see the rise of the Empire. I expected to see Anakin and Obi-Wan fighting. I expected to see some other Jedi. I expected to see Owen Lars and Aunt Beru.

I did not expect Anakin's fall primarily because of hormones. I did not expect TPM to be more of a comedy, but I know why it was done this way. I did not expect to see Anakin as a whiny little b**** in the first two episodes. I wanted him to be at least 17 and on his way to becoming a great Jedi. But then again, I did expect some things to be explained in a strange way because as proven in ROTJ, Obi-Wan could be a bit a lying old bas**** just to get things going in the right direction. He also stated that when he met Anakin, he was an accomplished pilot. I guess that is Obi-Wans 'point of view' as he sees pod racing to be piloting.

I did enjoy how Palpatine and the way he used the false flag and manipulated the entire Senate and galaxy to fall prey. I did like the allegory to Hitlers rise. Also love the Jedi as being protectors of the Old Republic, similar to the Samurai
of old.

Quite a few people did not like the political subtexts, but being a lover of history and politics, I enjoyed it greatly and wish more political dialogue was included. I also loved the entire mythology and heros journey, this is what brought me to Star Wars in the beginning. I really hope the two deleted scenes, one where Padme, Bail, Mothma, and other Senators are discussing a revolution; and the other where the Senators voice their displeasure to Palpatine's iron fist rule and he uses his Sith voice to usher them out; are put into the film.

Now when I went to Wal-Mart the first day the toys were put out for TPM, I was truly confused when I seen this figure, who looked like the Emporer, but named on the package as Darth Sidious. Needless to say I was examining that one to see who is this new Darth. When I came to the conclusion it had to be the eventual Emporer and was indeed Palpatine, I thought how in the hell would the galaxy fall under the rule of a Sith. TPM was still a few weeks from opening, so I had plenty of thoughts in my mind.

TPM and AOTC were a bit disappointing at first. Later I realized there was a method to the madness. I wanted to see more of Anakin turning and not a hormone infused whiny little b***** he was in AOTC.

In the beginning of the prequels, like I stated, I expected Anakin to be older. I thought he would turn to the DarkSide in AOTC. I thought Episode II would have not just the opening battles of the Clone Wars, but also the fall of Anakin. Then in Episode III, the Clone Wars would wind down and then the transformation to the armored Vader and show more of the Jedi purge, not just insinuation and holographs. I expected Anakin to be fighting quite a few Jedi.

But in the end, I was overall happy with the way it played out.

 

I believe the reason the Council allowed Anakin to have an apprentice is because they needed as many trained Jedi in the field as possible and Ashoka showed the most promise. The second reason is they wanted Anakin to show a little less recklessness and by having a responsibility, maybe he would exercise caution. The third reason is they trusted Obi-Wan more in leading a group of Clonetroopers as Anakin may be a little more reckless.