CT What did Vader want with Leia & Chewbacca in ESB?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by orangefuzz, Jan 18, 2012.

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  1. orangefuzz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2003
    star 4
    So I was watching ESB the other day and found myself wondering what exactly Vader planned to do with Leia and Chewbacca after Lando turned the crew over to him Although we as viewers are not privy to what the conditions of the original deal Vader had with Lando were, it can be assumed that they were probably free to go since Lando says that their having to stay in Cloud City was "never part of our agreement". But after having ordered Lando to keep them in Cloud City indefinitely, Vader (as I am sure you all remember) later alters the deal to have Leia and Chewbacca brought to the Executor. My question is what did Vader plan to do with them once they were there? Try to turn Leia to the darkside as well and have Chewie killed? Or simply kill them both? Additionally, why did Vader keep altering the deal? What prompted him to keep changing his mind on what to do with them? His repeated attempts to gain custody over them obviously shows that he had some interest in having them in his power. I haven't read the ESB novelization so perhaps it is explained in more detail there. Thoughts?
  2. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    Both Leia and Chewbacca were high profile members of the Rebellion against the Empire. Leia was a leader, and Chewbacca was wanted for his association with Han Solo and for his actions on and against the Death Star (in ANH). Vader, I'm sure, wanted to imprison them to send a message to the Rebellion, and I'm quite certain they would have been tortured for information that would prove vital in his war effort. When they could gain no further information from them, they would certainly be executed.

    Vader did not know of Leia's relationship to himself or her abilities with the Force, so no, he wasn't planning on turning her to the Dark Side.

    As for altering the deal he made with Lando (repeatedly), it was never Vader's intention to let Leia and Chewie go. He lied to Lando the first time and the time after that. It was a ploy to get Lando to agree to the terms, then he pulled the rug out from underneith him. Such a dirty villain, he is!
  3. orangefuzz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2003
    star 4
    Really? Did Palpatine reveal this to him sometime in between ESB and ROTJ then? I used to know all this stuff back in my hey-day but alas, I am not the cesspool of SW knowledge that I once was :(
  4. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    Vader only found out about Leia when Luke's thoughts betrayed him (during their duel in ROTJ).

    Vader: "... especially for -SISTER-! You have a twin sister! If you will not be turned, then perhaps she will!"
  5. Grand_Moff_Jawa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5
    Unless someone in the Empires spoke Wookiee, holding Chewbacca prisoner would do them no good. They'd kill him, IMO.
  6. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I'm sure they have interpreter droids.
  7. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'm sure they were planning to kill Chewbacca. The Empire didn't think much of non-humans anyway, and Han had been booted from the Imperial Navy because he refused to kill Chewbacca.

    As far as Leia, I'd guess Vader planned to hold onto her as a high-profile member of the Rebellion, or use her to further tempt Luke into the Dark Side.

    I haven't read the ESB novelization in about ten years but I don't remember it being mentioned. As far as "altering the deal," my guess is that Vader just didn't tell Lando the truth initially, and he had always planned to take Leia and Chewie with him.
  8. jacktherack Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2008
    star 4
    Why wouldn't vader want leia? he had her in the first movie and was going to question her and then kill her. then he had to let her escape with them. he got a free high ranking member of the rebellion or at the very least a rebel sympathizer that could be used to turn a lot of people to their side.
  9. Sith_Bounty-Hunter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 4
    I think if Vader had successfully taken them prisoner, he would have noticed Lea's force sensitivity, and then begun her training. As far as chewie goes, maybe a throw rug?
  10. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Well, that's one theory ;)
  11. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I realize I misquoted Vader. It's actually "SO you have a twin sister", which further emphasizes that Vader had no knowledge of his daughter before that point. The scene definitely implies that Vader doesn't know about Leia until then. If there's evidence to the contrary, please let me know.
  12. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    No evidence to the contrary. All evidence is conjecture. I'm one of the VAST minority that believe that Vader knew all along that Leia was Luke's sister (hence his reluctance to have her killed in ANH*), and that he chose the moment when Luke was at his weakest to lay that on him. Vader makes Luke think that his mind is weak. Vader is playing mind games, and it works. For me it makes Vader that much more calculated and evil. That's my theory, it works for me, and I like it :)

    *Yes, I know that when that was written Lucas hadn't come up with the idea of Luke and Leia being siblings, but I go by what's on screen. It makes the saga that much more satisfying.
  13. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    Yeah, it could work. Probably not true, but it could work. :)
  14. FRAGGLE_ROCKER Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 1
    To answer the question, Vader and any Imperial wouldn't have just let Leia and Chewbacca go.
    I can kind of see your point. Vader masked his personal search for Luke from the Emperor within a quest to route out the Rebels, like on Hoth, so if he knew Leia was his daughter, he could have done the same when pursuing the Tantive IV. Still, the purpose was for the Death Star's plans.
    How was Vader reluctant to have Leia executed? Sure he says "she may yet be of some use to us", but that was once Falcon was intercepted, and before that he didn't care about her scheduled execution. As for the discovery of Leia's relation in ROTJ, the set-up for how Vader learned that from Luke's thoughts was earlier on Dagobah when Obi-Wan, after Luke realized Leia was his sister, advised him to "bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit. But they could be made to serve the Emperor."
  15. Jabba_The_Hutt_123 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2003
    star 3
    I always assumed Vader wanted them as a back up to turn Luke to the dark side, if Luke was taken by force or frozen in carbonite he could unfreeze Luke and make him to turn to the darkside to save Leia/Chewie [works well with prequels and TFU].
    CaptainHamYoyo likes this.
  16. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Leia was a prisoner of Grand Moff Tarkin, not Vader.

    From what I understand, Vader found out about Luke's identity, following the Battle of Yavin. After all, Luke was known to the rebels as "Luke Skywalker". He learned about Luke's abilities when the latter used the Force to destroy the Death Star. I really don't see how he could have learned about Leia's identity before "ROTJ". Why is it so important to make Vader even more evil by believing that he had been aware of her identity for quite a while?
  17. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I didn't say it was "so important".

    I just believe that he knew who Luke and Leia was. Ben did. Yoda did. And Luke kept his surname and lived with Anakin's family. I find the "Vader didn't want any ties to his former life" reason a lot less plausible than my theory. Having been that attached to his mother, he never checked to see what the Lars family were up to? Highly implausible.
  18. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Vader wanted all of them except Han.

    He wanted to take Leia and Chewie as prisoners and a carbonite-frozen Luke back to the Emperor.

    If Luke had been taken that way and had been reluctant to turn to the Dark Side, they could have tortured Leia and Chewie right there, in front of him. They probably thought that was enough to make him turn.

    Also, they probably had files on Chewie dating back all the way to what he pulled on Kashyyyk during Order 66, not to mention being a co-conspirator in the destruction of the first Death Star. All of that made him a very wanted Wookiee in the eyes of the Empire, I'm sure. ;)
    CaptainHamYoyo likes this.
  19. KennethMorgan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 2
    Remember, in ANH Vader said that even the Death Star was insignificant compared to the power of the Force. By that reckoning, turning Luke to the Dark Side (and setting him up to help Vader kill the Emperor) is the most important thing to Vader. Han, Leia, Chewie and even Threepio are only a means to get Luke to come to Bespin, that's all. Once that's accomplished, he probably didn't care what happened to them. Question them, imprison them, kill them, whatever. Luke and his potential is more important.

    It should be noted, though, that Vader probably got some satisfaction in fooling, capturing and working over the group that had humiliated him back at Yavin.
  20. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Of course he did. He went back to his concentration chamber in the Executor and yelled "Yippeeeeee!!!!!" ;)
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Vader didn't want her dead in ANH because he felt that they could glean information from her. Hence he has everyone aboard the Tantive killed except for her. In TESB, there are two reasons. One, it lures Luke right to him. Two, her death will serve as a moral blow to the Alliance. Especially if it's publicly broadcast via the Holonet.
  22. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    The empire hated wookies.
  23. CaptainHamYoyo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2011
    star 2
    I agree with the ones that said Vader wanted Leia, Chewey, and 3PO to be used to lure Luke. Either as further bait, if Luke escaped from Vader's clutches on Bespin. Or if Vader succeeded in capturing Luke, he would torture and kill his friends in front of him to get him to turn to the Dark Side.
  24. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Why didn't luke turn to the darkside? It could help him defeat the empire and bring freedom the galaxy.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Overthrow one Emperor only to be replaced with another? No thank you.
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