CT What did Vader want with Leia & Chewbacca in ESB?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by orangefuzz, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Because Luke thought turning to the darkside would bring oppression to the galaxy.
  2. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    What's wrong with Vader ruling the galaxy? If luke ruled at his side, he would be mellowed down, and certainly not the evil dictator that Palpatine was.
  3. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    What do you mean? How would turning to the darkside bring oppression to the galaxy? The rebel alliance would accept a sith, as long as he was good and didn't do anything evil.
  4. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    You're presuming the Rebels know what you're saying...the Rebels, and Luke, thought being a Sith was bad. People can be wrong, you know.
  5. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Unless you're the Rebels. Because they're not.
  6. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    So the rebels decided to persecute the sith? What if a sith was on their side, helping them to fight evil?
    Last edited by Lord Tyrannus, Oct 25, 2012
  7. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    lol. Yeah that's it. The Rebels are persecuting the guy who can shoot lightning out of his finger tips.
  8. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Luke was his enemy, a rebel and a traitor.

    Does it affect the trillions/quadrillions of people/aliens in the galaxy is their leader has dark magic powers?
  9. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    The Rebels were far from persecuting the SIth - you have to be "in charge and have power" to persecute. They did most likely prosecute the Empire higher-ups once they gained control - you'd have to ask EU folks that. You do know, right, the different between persecute and prosecute?

    Most of the Empire's citizens were probably affected psychologically more than physically - their duly elected government was taken over by a dictator, troops often stationed on their planet, dissent stifled and history rewritten.
  10. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Prosecute means to punish someone for doing something wrong. Persecute is different. I know.

    Most of the empire's citizens were around during the time of the republic, it was only 20 yrs ago. Many of the republic citizens would still be alive.

    When LUke tried to redeem his father, was it because his father was a dictator? Or what?

    Hints of the sith empire's tyranny. Dissent stifled, troops stationed? What do you mean by that?
  11. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Luke tried to redeem his father because he loved him (the heroic Anakin of his dreams, confirmed by Obi-Wan) and thought he could reclaim the good within the monster.

    Do you not really understand "dissent stifled" and all? No one could say, for example, that the Jedi had done good, or the Empire sucked - you have to suck it up and toe the official line that life is all roses and sunshine the way it is. Some planets, suspected of being sympathetic to the old Republic, had troops stationed on them. Would you like to live under martial law, watched, possibly your conversations listened in on?

    Anyone here who used to live under a repressive regime and is no longer and can talk freely about what it was like?
  12. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    It's sad that anakin never met Luke, in normal form. He met him as a cyborg. When luke and leia were being born, and, when darth vader had that scary robot suit, samurai helmet, and deep JES voice, he was only in his early-mid twenties. When anakin/vader was deformed, more machine than man, and put in the robot body and mask, he was only about Luke's age.! He was being rebuilt the same time his children were being born, when he was still a young man. But that's why the story is so interesting. A story where Luke and leia were raised by jedi, normal looking anakin on tattoine would be the most boring thing I could ever imagine. Do you agree that darth vader (not cyborg vader just yet), looked a lot like luke skywalker in this photo? A few hours before he got the suit, and luke and leia were born.

    [IMG]

    When you mention people praising the Jedi and disliking the empire, are you referring to the rebel alliance-who are an armed force during war that the empire had the right to defend themselves against, or everyday, civilian people? What planets in the GFFA had troops stationed? Where does that info come from? What would've happened if the empire found out people were'nt loyal to them? Also, the stormtroopers had the choice to not inform the emperor what the people did. They were dumb.

    What does it mean that luke "redeemed" his father? Spiritual or political sense?
    Last edited by Lord Tyrannus, Oct 25, 2012
  13. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Ever hear the sayings power corrupts or With great power comes great responsibility? If Luke fell after he defeated Vader and the Emperor, he would be the one in charge. It would be almost impossible for him to return to the light (with Leia it might be possible). Besides if he fell wouldn't be driven insane with the power? He wouldn't give it up.
  14. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    If luke fell to the darkside, and he took over the galaxy, why would that be evil? Galaxies have to have rulers. So what if he used dark magic? Why does philosophical and religious things matter with a rule. Darkside vs Lightside and luke's refusal to return are about religion and philosophy, not politics and power. If he decided to turn to the light, he could have. There is no rule that says, " the darkside won't let you turn back, even if you try". Turning to the darkside is not an unpardonable sin.

    Also, philosophical ideas about the jedi aside, you said he would be driven insane with power. Now, what would luke have done as emperor? Anything evil? No. Build a 3rd death star, probably not. He would just be a political ruler. Luke wouldn't commit atrocities as a ruler.

    Also, how does religion and philosophy (darkside and lightside) related to politics (galactic dictatorships)?
  15. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    What are YOUR thoughts on the above?

    To most rulers, philosophical and religious things probably don't matter, as long as they rule without interference, that's all that's important. So I might give you a point there. But to those ruled, it does matter. Humans created religion to make sense of their world - humans are not herd animals blindly following the tough alpha male no matter where or how he leads them.

    As for "deciding to turn back" - one who is so selfish and dismissive of others won't have a reason/motive to change unless something/someone - like Luke did with Anakin - gives them that motive. If you ruled the world, your every word "law" and insisted your people have bloody gladiator games, etc. why would you suddenly decide, "Oh, wait - me bad"?
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  16. jedimikey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2012
    star 2
    Hmmm. I always thought Vader wanted Leia and Chewie to use them as leverage against Luke.
  17. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    The empire was considered evil because a sith ruled it. A sith ruling it was evil because a sith, in and of itself, is considered evil, because they wield the darkside-black magic.

    Personally, I wouldn't care if a dark wizard ruled a nation. Who cares?
  18. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Probably very few outside the Jedi cared whether Sids was a Sith or not.

    At first, at least.

    The Empire was evil because an elected Chancellor seized power and overthrew the legitimate government and instituted all sorts of policies the citizens did not like and could not protest.
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In RoTS, it's more like the government "voting for their own overthrow" by replacing the post of elected chancellor with that of hereditary Emperor.
  20. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    It's obvious that Vader discovered who Luke was after the Battle of Yavin. But how do you explain that he knew Leia's identity . . . before his second duel with Luke during the Battle of Endor?
  21. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    No. He wanted to annex cloud city. Using them to find Luke may have been part of it, but not his main goal.
  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Other way round- Vader didn't even know about Cloud City being independant until Boba Fett led him to it.

    As Yoda said "It is you and your abilities the Emperor wants. That is why your friends are made to suffer."
  23. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    So, what did Vader want to do with Cloud city? Invade and take over? I thought anakin just wanted to get Luke to be his new sith apprentice. Cloud city was a bait or a trap.....