What did you think of the exclusive use of CGI for the clonetroopers?

TO THE COSTUME DESIGNER:

Lucas: "I need five hundred million clone costumes by next week. Think you can do that?"

TO ROBIN GURLAND:

Lucas: "I need you to find about five hundred million extras for the clones that are EXACTLY <so and so> feet and and <so and so> inches tall."

 

I'm sure I saw an official response from Lucasfilm that they were 100% CGI. It took me a while to believe this as they look totally real, especially the close up on the trooper who speaks to Padme on the sand.

 

The clonetroopers looked great.

shame Jango didn't in his few CG incarnations.

He looked good. but still.

the clones looked great.

 

TO THE COSTUME DESIGNER:

Lucas: "I need five hundred million clone costumes by next week. Think you can do that?"

TO ROBIN GURLAND:

Lucas: "I need you to find about five hundred million extras for the clones that are EXACTLY <so and so> feet and and <so and so> inches tall."

Huh? I haven't seen anybody suggest this. All I've seen is people suggesting that extras in suits would have been a better choice for the close-ups. Seems reasonable to me.

 

Oh I know, I was just kidding around... something a lot of people are too uptight to do on these boards nowadays.

 

i had no idea ALL of them were cgi. of course the shots wheres theres thousands waiting to get on the starships was cgi, but the close ups i thought were real actors. so i think lucas did a good job making them all cgi

 

Oh... I see.

Actually it would be intersting to see what would happen to all those costumes after the movie. Think E-Bay.

 

Extras in suits for the close-ups would only have called attention to the differences between their movements and the CG clonetroopers. Also, why have an extra doing blue-screen work as a clonetrooper when his scene consists of interacting with a CG Yoda.

IMHO, it's better to stick with one version of the clonetrooper, either all CG or all extras, for consistency. Look what happens with poor Obi-Wan and his real/fake beard. The differences between the shots (some with real beard, some with fake beard) do stand out and they break the magic for an instant. Since CG clonetroopers were necessary for some of the shots, I think it was a great idea that they used them for all of the shots.

 

I thought his beard looked funny in some scenes!

I didn't know it was fake at times, how come? (I never had heard this before, excuse me if it sounds silly.)

 

Hey! I didn't know his beard was faked at some points! But I could recognize that all clonetroopers were CGI. That's funny.

One of the problems with the total use of CGI at some shots (like the one mentioned, when Yoda talks to the clone commander) is that it made some bashers compare AOTC with Shrek.

 

There was a discussion on Obi-Wan's beard and hair (and all the shots you can see the fake beard and hair in) on the ***The Official Obi-Wan Kenobi Eps II & III Discussion and Speculation Thread: Part 5*** but the basic reason is that after principal filming was completed, they had to do additional pick-up shots (perhaps they changed the lines Obi-Wan was supposed to say or something didn't look right when the special effects were added or a whole new scene was added).

Principal shooting of AotC occurred after Moulin Rouge completed filming. So Ewan had long-ish hair and was able to grow a beard before AotC started filming. The additional shots took place right after Black Hawk Down was filmed. In Black Hawk Down, Ewan had very short, shaved hair and no beard. Thus, he needed to wear a wig and a fake beard for the additional shots. Ewan had also lost weight (most noticeable in the Dexter's Diner scene) which also made the differences more obvious.

I think it's hilarious that some people bashed AotC for the clone commander talking to Yoda because for me that was one of the scenes that made me question whether the clonetroopers were *really* all CG. Because I thought that scene looked really good. Of course, I saw most of my many showings on a digital projector so that might be a factor in the quality.

 

All I've seen is people suggesting that extras in suits would have been a better choice for the close-ups.

Better how? I mean, either you have a guy in a suit or a CGI recreation of a guy in a suit that looks so real that it fooled about 99.9% of the viewers. Given the success of the CGI clonetroopers, I don't see how an extra in a suit would have been better.

One of the problems with the total use of CGI at some shots (like the one mentioned, when Yoda talks to the clone commander) is that it made some bashers compare AOTC with Shrek.

That's a problem with the bashers, not with CGI.

 

I think they looked great, but that doesn't mean they looked excessively real.

what is going on? everyone says "oh that's great, cgi looks real, keep using it" but the supporters are going to be really nostalgic when a few years from now, cgi is a total replacement for human actors.

sure it looked great but why why why, GL? why do this? to prove a point that you can? The OT pioneered fx, and it did a lot of good.

The only thing that excessive cg will do beyond awesome backgrounds, space shots, and general fx look great, is replace people in the future, and that is bad. GL will eventually be responsible for bringing down the medium that he loves so much, IMO.

Why not have thrown in a bunch of guys in suits? that is where the fun is. maybe i'm just old at 29, but i'd rather be a nostalgic 29 yo than a slobbering geek with a false sense of scope who drools over computer graphics replacing humans.

 

Why not have thrown in a bunch of guys in suits? that is where the fun is. maybe i'm just old at 29, but i'd rather be a nostalgic 29 yo than a slobbering geek with a false sense of scope who drools over computer graphics replacing humans.

Projecting much? Hmmmmm?

Nice to know where those of us who liked the CG clonetroopers stand with you.

 

I think they looked really, really good. Only shot that bothered me was when one of the clonetroopers was taking orders from YODA (I think) and he is standing with hsi back to us really close to the camera. Even though he is just standing still, listening to the orders being given to him, and the only movement should be 1) his breathing 2) no movement at all, you can actually see that his armor is moving really smoothly in place, I guess trying to simulate his breathing in and out while standing. It was just too smooth, or I don't know why but at that moment I realized they were all CGI. I guess that's why maybe he should have some close ups with real actors in costumes. Overall they did look terrific. Look for that scene if you can.

 

George Lucas has said countless times that he has no desire to replace human actors.

But a question for "CGI is the devil!" folks, did you go this nuts over Toy Story, Final Fantasy, and Shrek? I mean, those films didn't have a single real actor in them thus having proved long before Attack Of The Clones that it is entirely possible to create a successful film without the need to film a single honest to goodness actor.

If you're afraid of CGI replacing actors, I hate to tell you, but it has already happened, and Lucas didn't do it.

 

oh please.

you know i am an aotc lover, absolute fanatic. but i can still find fault with animating humans.

we'll just see in a few years at GL's legacy when we wish for humans to act as humans in movies.

 

actually i go to an animated movie to see an animated movie.

i go to a live action movie to see a mixture of fx and humans.

if i wanted to see a cg humans galore, i would most likely choose to see an animated movie, no?

 

we'll just see in a few years at GL's legacy when we wish for humans to act as humans in movies.

Lucas has said that it takes a team of six working for a year to create a single realistic character. It would take an actor a single afternoon on a set to accomplish the same thing. Therefore, he has no desire to replace human actors.

The clones were CGI for a specific reason because he wanted them all exactly the same height and he wanted them all to move in exactly the same way. It wasn't a frivilous use of CGI but something done to realize a specific vision.

 

I just posted this in another thread, but it is relevant so that i am not considered some gl or aotc basher.


"ok ok, we are getting into details here.

sure from far away, armies of clone guys can work.
backgrounds, sunsets etc work awesome!

space battles look excellent.

close up cgi dudes mimicking human behavior look way off. if they didn't we might as well start having every movie, from romantic comedy to horror be made like final fantasy."

 

It's entertainment. Who cares how it gets made? If there was an entertaining romantic comedy featuring CG actors, who really gives a flip how it was made if it's a good movie and enjoyable to watch?

And like I said, we already have films completely devoid of real actors on screen, in fact we've had them for years, so it seems you're a bit late to be starting this crusade.

 

it's not a crusade my friend, in fact, the fervor ends as soon as i log off this computer to go talk with real humans, have real adventures,etc.

stay home and play with your nofriendo 64 system, type away, and go laugh at the loveable antics of shrek.

 

Well it also depends what you mean by mimicking. After all the clonetroopers were mocaped as a startup point. James Tooley, the technical animation supervisor, wore the markers and he performed a lot (if not all) the mocap movements for the troopers. So depending on your point of view it's not mimicking but actual human movement.

 

well let's just use the scene where the trooper aids padme as an example. if that's how humans move in your world, i would like to know the color of the sky where you are from.

 

I didn't say all FX were perfect, there never is. That was one of the few shots that maybe was a tad off. But how do you expect a person witha heavy and rigid armor to move while walking on a slope of sand? I don't hear any real complaints except for the fact that you don't like CG humans. No mention of artificats or animation glitches per se, maybe you lack the vocabulary. I would suggest reading Cinefex, the 2 CGW articles, and maybe attending SIGGRAPH or reading a couple of books. Have you been bothered by CG humans in ome of the other films. Granted there is some bit of truth to your view since it was Lucas that mandated Cg for the troopers but 99.9% of the time it's the supervisors that decide the best approach, and they are certainly more talented and smarter than you or me.

Where I come from the sky takes on may shades besides blue, but that's just heavy pollution ;-).