What do mods look for?

I have taken part in a couple Mod votes, and it was easy to come to a decision as they involved users I either knew about, or looked up information on. Other Mods tend to be very forthcoming with information about candidates that might not be so well-known as well. If I genuinely didn't know the candidates, I abstained. I don't want to discuss specific voting decisions, even other Mods don't have a right to see who voted for who.

I'm trying my best here to state my position, Malkie. I'm sorry if I can't help out, but I'm not gonna flail around in the dark and give you BS if I don't know the answer.

 

I'm not really sure what you mean by double standard, but I replied to several of your questions through PM. With all due respect, I have a forum to moderate and hundreds of users whom post in it by the minute, so forgive me if I don't have the time to play PM tag with you.

Really, thats a shameful response. I'm referring to the last of three PMs I sent to you. I asked a single question, you read it 5 hours ago. Take your time in responding, I'm in no rush.


I'm trying my best here to state my position, Malkie. I'm sorry if I can't help out, but I'm not gonna flail around in the dark and give you BS if I don't know the answer.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm glad someone is bothering to say something.

 

Ok, at the risk of being called a bitter ex-mod (despite my earlier pro-administration posts...but you know how it works....say something against the administration, and you're bitter), I'll say that I dont like what I'm seeing in here.

No, the administration is under no obligation to discuss how these candidates fared.

But damn, there is such a notion of public relations, you know. It really shouldnt have been hard for JCC mods, or an admin or two, to send malkie a PM saying "This is why we thought that these candidates weren't up to scratch". It really isnt a difficult task. Especially given 2 of the 3 he is talking about could have been dismissed quite easily due to their newness to the boards.

But rather than that, he gets a brick wall. He gets told that you lot dont want or need to explain anything to him. No, you dont need to. But as a member trying to be constructive, you should be anyway. Its called good public relations. Hell, its called good manners.

Dash and Damon, you're both excused from this grilling. As a non-forumer, you get some leeway, Damon, because you dont have to know. And Dash...well, it was your promotion, not for you to have input.

Grilled-Sarlacc, if you're reading this, you might want to do something about this Ivory Tower attitude I'm seeing from other mods here. These mods should be trying their best to discuss issues with members that were trying to be helpful, and not be holding this poor attitude.

 

ok, I would have accepted "we're not going to tell you" two days ago when I asked. Honestly, I was just trying to be a helpful JCC member by suggesting people. When they weren't selected I would have appreciated some feedback. I wasn't, so I posted in Comms and was met by a brick wall, and generally poor attitudes. It really doesn't make me want to be a helpful JCC user in the future.

How many times do I have to restate myself? I answered your question before you even asked it, in dashy's promotion thread.

The process is simple. We gathered names from many sources. This was mostly from mods, but we also included names that users suggested to us. Next, we started narrowing it down. We eliminated users with long histories of trouble, or recent histories. From there, we discussed each candidate in detail (including their online time) and proceded to a poll. dashy won my an overwhelming margin, and so he was offered the position and accepted it.

Does that mean that we didn't consider your suggestions? Not at all. We did consider them. However, in the end someone else received our full support.

However, we don't talk about promotions in detail outside of the MS. That includes telling other users about them. Everyone recommended to us was looked at. That is all that I will say on the matter.

You may not like that answer, but it is all you will get.

Kimball Kinnison

 

That is all that I will say on the matter. You may not like that answer, but it is all you will get.

Honestly, your post was going great until the negative attitude towards the end. Its not like I'm repeating myself for the hundredth time, or that I'm a problem user or a serial troll. I'm just someone who tried to help and feels treated poorly.

Its exactly as Dags suggests about public relations.

You people make regular users not want to help.

 

Honestly, your post was going great until the negative attitude towards the end. Its not like I'm repeating myself for the hundredth time, or that I'm a problem user or a serial troll. I'm just someone who tried to help and feels treated poorly.

Other moderators have said essentially the same thing already, and you haven't accepted it. You have continued to ask for more answers to the same question.

You have been around long enough to know that we don't talk about the details of promotions outside of the MS, and even then we delete the related threads before we promote the candidate. For example, I have no knowledge (other than hearsay) of the discussion surrounding my own promotion last July. Other mods don't know that sort of thing about their own promotions either (unless they asked someone personally and were told). That's the way it's been for quite some time.

This is the same policy that it has always been. We followed the same procedure. The only major difference this time is that it was public knowledge that we were looking for a new mod. However, that didn't change the process any.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Grilled-Sarlacc, if you're reading this, you might want to do something about this Ivory Tower attitude I'm seeing from other mods here. These mods should be trying their best to discuss issues with members that were trying to be helpful, and not be holding this poor attitude.

Also, please note that this may not apply across ALL Fora... just, perhaps, some of them...

 

OK, I am a little behind on the discussion. I had popped in yesterday and the day before to hear the comments and I find most are some solid points of view. A good discussion here.

I think many mods earlier in the thread posted great examples of what we are looking for in a mod. The only one that I don't think was mentioned was that I evaluate (and hope) they a new mod does not play favorites. My number one pet peeve is a mod who cannot differentiate between their role to apply the rules equally and consistently to all users, regardless of friendship. It has to be that way. Mods showing favoritism is noticed and reduces the mods' credibility (and all of us, really). But that is something I hope does not develop and it is not that common anyway. Of course, as with all issues, if an instance arises where a user feels a mod is playing favorites, they need to contact another mod to get another opinion and we can then police the ranks.

As far as mod selection and why some do not get chosen, it is not much of a mystery. The criteria explained by the mods earlier on what they look for is what is the basis for why a name gets thrown into the hat. There will be a discussion thread in the MS so that all mods can collectively contribute comments and opinions on the nominees, applying those things they look for. You will find most are looking for the same generic things (familiarity with forum, history as a poster, time online to do the job, etc)

Then after we feel everyone has made their comments and/or if the discussion has gone on long enough, a new poll thread is created. It is then time to push forward to make it happen. If there is a gap to fill, we try and keep the delay as short as possible. The poll is a nice easy visual way for us to see who was chosen. Given the number of total mods, that means we get a good vote from many people, not just a few. It spreads out the field and allows for a more democratic way of selection.

Some votes are close others are not. Some selection is easy, sometimes it is not. And we take our time in that instance to make sure we do the best thing for that forum.

The mods who did not win enough votes simply didn't gain the necessary votes from the mods during the poll. The mods vote using their experience and judgment and evaluation on the comments and so on. And if mods feel they are not familiar enough with the forum and/or nominees, then they post "I abstain."

If anyone wants to talk more with me about this, I certainly will. I am here and a mouse click away from a PM. I am generally in he 3SA, doing the icons, assisting Raven with tech stuff (as needed), and several other duties. My time in Comms is not as much as some would like, I am sure of that. It is a gap I recognize in my online time and I pop in to read whenever I can. Kimball is our dedicated Admin for this forum to assist in that regard and he is the main POC for the issues in here and represents all the Admins. Don't thnk I am not paying attention, I am here! Sometimes I just may need a PM to alert me to something or if someone want to hear my own comments.

Grilled

 

Other moderators have said essentially the same thing already, and you haven't accepted it.

I disagree slightly - they suggested I PM an admin. You've really been the only person to actually address my questions.

I honestly believed you were looking to promote someone who posted in the time slot thats currently not moderated by the current JC mods. I really thought this was a major factor when looking for someone. I also realised that the current JCC mods might not get a chance to see the people who post during this period so I was invited to provide suggestions. I did, and one in particular I thought would be a great candidate. I thought that he might be up against people in a similar situation, but obviously he was up against someone from a different situation who is better known.

Clearly there were other factors deem more important, and thats fine. I understand that.

Whatever. I'm done here too.

 

You may not like that answer, but it is all you will get.

This post will probably get edited and my family put in jail, but I have to say: that kind of attitude really doesn't help the atmosphere of Communications. This is supposed to be a forum for user-mod discussions, not a place for mods to say, "This is what happened. If you do not like it, too bad.

At the very least we should strive for a friendly tone in this forum. Dagsy is quite correct when he talks about public relations, and the handling of malkie's question seems like a PR failure. No one should feel the need to end their post with, "Whatever. I'm done here too."

I don't mean to make this into a big deal, but come on. Even if you just throw a few s out there, at least that's something.

 

This post will probably get edited and my family put in jail, but I have to say: that kind of attitude really doesn't help the atmosphere of Communications. This is supposed to be a forum for user-mod discussions, not a place for mods to say, "This is what happened. If you do not like it, too bad.

How many times has the mod selection process been explained in Comms? Of those, how many times have any specific information about candidates or votes been publicly released? The policy hasn't changed, and asking the same questions again isn't going to change it.

You don't have to like the mod selection process. If we had to promote someone that everyone likes every time, we would have a very empty Mod Squad. In this case, we received recommendations from several different users, very few of which had even one name in common on their lists. As we were only promoting one mod, that means that most lists would likely have no one selected from them.

Comms is a place for user-mod discussions, but there are some things that we will not discuss in detail here. Specifics of moderator promotions are one of them.

Kimball Kinnison

 

KK, I think you've been missing Griff's point.

Oftentimes, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Lately, while info has been a been hard to come by, the way things have been said has left much to be desired. In short, it's been lousy.

There were times I let myself lose sight of the need to be thoughtful and understanding, even if the answers I gave weren't what people wanted to hear.

While I also suggest maybe meeting people halfway on some things, or just being more flexible, I recommend maybe softening the responses more than anything else.

 

You don't have to like the mod selection process.

There are problems with it, but I didn't mention anything about it in my post.

If we had to promote someone that everyone likes every time, we would have a very empty Mod Squad.

Believe me, I know that. But nowhere did I say that dashy is not a good choice.

Comms is a place for user-mod discussions, but there are some things that we will not discuss in detail here. Specifics of moderator promotions are one of them.

Trust me, I know what you can and cannot discuss outside of ModSquad. All I even mentioned in my post, though, was tone.

 

Trust me, I know what you can and cannot discuss outside of ModSquad. All I even mentioned in my post, though, was tone.

And have you considered that perhaps you are reading too much into the tone of my messages?

I try to be as accurate and matter-of-fact as I can be. The simple fact is that the policy hasn't changed, and other moderators have explained it. As much information as we will give outside of the MS had been given. If that is not enough to satisfy some people, I'm sorry, but that is all that we will give.

When I answer questions, I try to be thorough and provide all of the relevant information that I am able to appropriately give. I have also made many attempts in the past month to add transparency to the policy making process at every step possible. As many people can affirm, I am always willing to answer any question on policy or process for the boards, and I will give all of the information that I am able to.

If malkie had PMed me (as he had been told to do several times), I would have gladly answered him that way as well. As many people can affirm, I try to be very quick and thorough in answering my PMs. However, he decided that it would be ineffective without even trying it once. I have been mostly away from the boards over the last 2 days (when he has been asking the question) due to a combination of work and school responsibilities, but I have also managed to answer all of my PMs in a timely manner in that time.

Kimball Kinnison

 

What is it with mods and PMing? Why can't people post general questions in Comms so that more than one mod/admin can answer it? Isn't that what Comms is for?

 

Maybe they don't want their posts evaluated to the borders of sillyness? I can imagine some members going through the posts trying to find fault with anything. Just because your friend didn't get the moderator abilities doesn't mean you have to keep going on about it.

 

If malkie had PMed me (as he had been told to do several times), I would have gladly answered him that way as well.

He shouldn't have to. The question was asked here, you saw it, there's no reason you couldn't answer it here. If he can be told in PM, he can be told in public too. Frankly your attitude towards public questioning is lacking pretty badly, possibly due to you not spending much time as an admin. Snubbing everyone who criticises your actions won't make you many friends, though.

 

It really shouldnt have been hard for JCC mods, or an admin or two, to send malkie a PM saying "This is why we thought that these candidates weren't up to scratch".

I don't think it's ever been the administration's responsibility to specifically inform a user why other users were not promoted.

We look at a series of candidates, we discuss, we vote, but everyone has different reasons for why they vote a certain way. We don't itemize them and release the results to anybody who happens to ask. Do Oscar voters get up on the platform at the end of the show and demand to know the reasons why Sean Penn won over Bill Murray or Johnny Depp?

 

Oscar winners don't get to determine who can post here and what we can post. All malkie was asking for was a bit of information on why some candidates were considered unsuitable or not as good as other candidates, and I think it's fair that he gets that information. There's no harm in a bit of transparency when it comes to voting people into a position of power.

 

All malkie was asking for was a bit of information on why some candidates were considered unsuitable or not as good as other candidates, and I think it's fair that he gets that information.

I wouldn't exactly use the term unsuitable, but better yet which canidate best fit the requirements the administration and MS were looking for in the mod position available, such as online time, forum knowledge, user history, good communication skills, and a tolerance to continual scrutiny IMO.

 

Hence why I added the "not as good as other candidates" bit. However, until your post we weren't even sure if they were unsuitable or not, so thanks for giving us at least some information.

 

He shouldn't have to. The question was asked here, you saw it, there's no reason you couldn't answer it here. If he can be told in PM, he can be told in public too.

If you read the rest of my paragraph that you quoted, you would have seen why I mentioned that he should have PMed me. I stated:

I have been mostly away from the boards over the last 2 days (when he has been asking the question) due to a combination of work and school responsibilities, but I have also managed to answer all of my PMs in a timely manner in that time.

While I'm at work, my moderating time is limited, but I see when PMs come in due to emails (I get them within a few minutes). I then take the first opportunity to respond. In that time, I did not have the chance to read through all of the Comms threads for that time, but I am catching up right now.

If you have a question that isn't being answered, PM me. That is the easiest way to get my attention. Even if the PM only asks me to take a look at a thread or post my answer there, it serves to move forward.

And no, I hadn't seen his question before today.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Oscar winners don't get to determine who can post here and what we can post.

It's an analogy. But if that one doesn't work for you, how about Governor instead of Oscar winner? He, after all, could put you to death if you break the wrong law.

The issue is not whether other users were found unsuitable. It was simply the majority vote that Dashy was more suitable than anyone else.

 

GS, that was an excellent post and a perfect representation of what takes place.

 

I think K_K's responses have been more than fair.

I also suggested a few people for modship, but they didn;t get picked. I didn;t know -_-_-_- or his psoting, but he seems like a fairly good mod, and in the end, taht's what matters. He doesn't seem to have trouble adjusting, doesn't have an attitude problem, and doesn;t seem ultra defensive. He's a ton better than another recent YJCC promo, who really seems to talk down to reg users in her posts.