PT What do you imagine the Jedi to be like before the Prequel Trilogy?

I agree with what you said. In fact the slavery situation is a lot more complicated than I had realized. I admit I never really considered all those factors, just sort of assumed the (imaginary) Jedi were the "just go and do it" type heroes, ready to stand up and fight whatever injustice they may encounter. I realize that it doesn't work that way of course, even in SW. You are right that at that point in TPM, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had no way at all of doing anything about the situation. Maybe what I meant to say was more regarding the absoluteness or finality of his reply, without even thinking about it for a second. He just said "no", they will not free slaves, period. He might have said it.... I don't know, a little more "diplomatically" maybe? Like "well, that's not easy; Jedi are not soldiers and we can't fight your wars all over the galaxy; but I promise to address this issue with the council and senate when we get back to Coruscant....", or something like that. It would have been in line with Qui-Gon's idealistic rather than by-the-book attitude. Their options on Tatooine were very limited for sure. But, in the full decade Obi-Wan had to train Anakin no one ever thought to look into the issue, not so much as try to get some news about Shmi? But then of course we get to the Jedi's teachings to let go of all attachment. So there was really no easy way out of Anakin's and Shmi's situation.

Of course you are right. It would not have worked. And that's not even considering the slaves had detonators implanted, which the two Jedi very likely had no way of removing. About the concept of slavery, we all seem to agree, and so do the SW characters, the good guys anyway.

 

Something similar to the knights Templar

 

Wow, you're right. I totally forgot about the implanted detonators. Yeah that would make the whole operation basically next to impossible.

And I agree about Qui-Gon. He tended to be really terse with everyone, Anakin, Watto, even Obi-Wan. Maybe it was just his way. I suppose he may not have been one to make promises either.

The saddest part of the slavery situation in TPM is that Anakin promises his mother he'll return and free the slaves himself. But of course, as Darth Vader, he just helps re-legalize slavery in the Galactic Empire, and he's personally responsible for untold suffering.

 

No one expects one knight and his padawan to rectify the problem, the failing is the order at large's not Qui-Gon's other than emoting "meh". It just seems that the guardians of peace and justice would have to have some response even down to a report to the worthless Senate it would be quite insufficient but would rise above "meh" levels at least.

Even if it came to use of force, it is hard to buy a good 50 or 100 knights couldn't make a heck of a dent in the problem, Luke took Jabba and his cronies out all but single handed and he just went to one of those correspondence schools where you go in for a bit of hands on training 10-25% of the time.

 

Several have already talked about my thoughts on Jedi and slavery...

The ultimate issue was,again, the Jedi being tied to the Republic,and therefore tied to it's laws,procedures,and decisions. In becoming the Republic's "special ops force" as it were,they sacrificed a lot of their freedom without even realizing they did so. TPM shows it all - the Supreme Chancellor must send 2 Jedi IN SECRET to mediate a trade dispute. Not to fight, but to sit down and negotiate a peaceful settlement. There should have been no need for this,but because of the bloated,corrupt Senate and Republic Government, Valorum obviously felt that not only was the Trade Federation Blockade and unjust situation, but that he could not resolve it with the help of the Senate,nor would they sponsor the sending of Jedi to resolve it.

The Jedi Order became less about following the Will of the Force,but more about following the Will of the Republic. A Republic that became bloated,corrupt,and ineffective. So even if Qui-Gon wanted to free all the slaves on Tattoine, even if the Council felt this was the right course of action, they would need Senate approval to do so first. so it was not always about doing what was just or right for this later incarnation of the Jedi Order, it was about doing what they would be allowed to do.

 

I didn't expect them all to be dressed like Tatooine moisture farmers

 

I never had a solid image of them, more just a vague notion of some sort of saintly "knights". I had assumed that they were politically connected to the republic, perhaps that they even directly governed it. Ultimately the Jedi of the PT (flawed and dogmatic political accessories of the republic) turned out to be infinitely more interesting and engaged my imagination in ways the 2-dimensional jedi of the OT never could.

 

Hey it was good luck for Obi-Wan though. He happened to hide out on a planet where the locals are all dressed like Jedi. Perfect cover

 

Pretty similar to how they wound up being except less assholish.

 

I thought that each Jedi Knight could choose whether or not to fight in a war, and that Obi-Wan and Anakin fought in the Clone Wars against Yoda's advice.

 

All interesting views of pre-PT days. I always thought they did look similar to Obi Wan and had special powers. Did not picture them living on Coruscant or tied to the Republic but it made so much sense as this was part of the reason for their demise (other reasons being over confident and not intune to the living, present Force. Definitely didnt see so many different alien Jedi roaming the Jedi temple halls, but I enjoyed the council members and their mystique. Nice to see Obi Wan made the council and how Anikan was left off. Wish they had started with Shaak Ti, Dooku, Luminara on council and had more Jedi action throughout the PT.

 

Did you miss the ending of ROTJ?
By the way, not everyone is dressed like that.

 

Less a centralized group.

I grew up on the OT and then my first forays into the eu after the glove of darth vader series was the tales of the jedi comics.

In those comics jedi masters were assigned as guardians of specific systems and they trained a group of students on their own on a planet in the system they were assigned to. That why I figured yoda had lived on dagobah forever as he had been the guardian of the systems near sullust. basically it was jedi masters serving like the green lantern corps.

 

I imagined Jedi to be a lot like Obi-wan and Yoda. A few renegade warriors who chose to the Light Side of the Force to battle evil. I assumed there was less evil to battle before the OT, but the Jedi were very decentralized in my head.

 

Obi-Wan doesn't wear the same kind of robes as Owen does in ANH. Obi-Wan's are intentionally designed to be evocative of samurai garb. Luke's outfit in ROTJ is similar to Obi-Wan's in ANH, only without the robe. You're repeating a faulty meme created by people who never bothered to actually look closely at Obi-Wan's and Owen's ANH outfits.

 

Hell, even the EU mentioned Jedi robes as normal garbs. But, internet memes rule the world, even if highly inaccurate.

 

Just for reference:



Note the billowy sleeves of the cloak, the long kimono-like garb worn underneath, the obi (sash) worn across the midsection.

Owen's outfit doesn't have these qualities. The cloak is of a completely different cut, as can be seen with the much less billowy sleeves; he wears no richly-woven kimono but rather a dirty, tattered vest that barely reaches down to his waist; and he wears no obi:



Now compare Luke's ROTJ outfit. He wears no cloak like Obi-Wan's--but his base layer, despite being shorter and less kimono-like in order to facilitate a more active role, is nonetheless cut and woven in a style clearly reminiscent of Obi-Wan's outfit from ANH, complete with obi across the waist:



The Jedi's outfits from the prequels draw on both Obi-Wan's ANH outfit and Luke's ROTJ outfit:




The robes, again, are like the wizardly samurai robe with billowy sleeves Obi-Wan wears in ANH, not like the peasant robe Owen wears:



Though I don't have access to it right now, Lawrence Kasdan affirms in The Making of Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back that Yoda's outfit in TESB was based on Obi-Wan's in ANH, that already having been decided to be the standard Jedi outfit even back then. This is precisely the same reason Luke's ROTJ outfit draws design elements from Obi-Wan's ANH outfit.

 

Not to mention, Anakin's ghost also wears those robes, which lends more evidence to your theory.

 

Hi! Thanks for dredging ths ancient comment up. Also: I don't care. There wasn't anything called an internet meme when I thought this about the robes, so accusing me of repeating it is a bit odd. The thread title is "what did you imagine". Whether I'm right or wrong about the reasons has no bearing on what I imagined at the time.

This is a good reminder why I stopped coming here.

 

Actually, it seems more like you just have a bad attitude about being contradicted.This thread was on the front page so I read it and commented on a post I saw. I didn't realize your comment was so old. I also don't see why it should matter in any way.

I also don't see why you're so offended by my "meme" comment. Okay, so you're not repeating a meme. You simply never bothered to look closely at the costumes yourself. All on your own. Is that better?

Feel free to come here as often or as not often as you like. Discussion will continue without you, between people who are capable of handling debate and criticism.

 

I never thought they would have so much use of technology. The temple was high tech. Big time.

 

Their conflict in the PT is as existential as anything else. The Jedi ended up all but wiped out, after all. You could just as easily frame the political conflict as being a proxy for the Jedi vs. Sith conflict as you could the other way around.

 

Seriously?! I didn't know that. I thought they were the same just by watching the movies. I know the top was very similar. And, I thought I ready somewhere that Jedi "dressed like the humblest of species" to show they were above no one, so it made sense for him to be dressed like a moisture farmer. I'll have to look at that more carefully.

 

But Hutt space is not part of the Republic. Unless they want to go to war with the hutts there is nothing they can do beside diplomatic talks and economic pressure.

Beside the padawans who anguish about their lack of Force capability as a cheep way to create drama how often are the jedi about their Force prowess?