PT What do you LIKE about the prequels

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by WhiskeyGold, Nov 17, 2013.

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  1. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    I am a prequel lover, i love them and all i seem to hear is what people don't like. Be nice to read some post about what they like about them. I just watched Attack of the clones again with my son and i don't see how anyone can hate that movie.
  2. SithHorseman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2002
    star 1
    Maul was cool.
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  3. Komodo9Joe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2013
    star 1
    Well, you've found a friend in me if you love the prequels. I hold the Prequel Trilogy as a very enjoyable and powerful set of movies, far surpassing the Originals. Wasn't that refreshing to hear?

    I'm wise enough to understand the other side of it although I'm far from agreeing with it. Attack of the Clones does contain some cringe-worthy dialogue in the romance scenes, particularly the fireplace scene: "I'm haunted by the kiss you should have never given me ... the closer I get to you the worse it gets. I'm in agony ..." While these might be okay lines on paper, they sound very artificial on film. I understand the meaning of Anakin's sentences but his phrasing and diction is awkward i.e., no one ever says these things. George Lucas should have written more naturalistic lines that still impart the same depth and meaning, but come off as more realistic. However, some of Anakin's other lines, including his "I don't like sand," do come off as very sincere and revelatory of Anakin's background and psychology.

    Take Padme's line in the Love Pledge scene (the scene before Anakin and Padme are escorted to the arena to be executed):

    Padme: But it seems our lives are about to be destroyed anyway. (turning to Anakin) Annie, I ... truly... deeply ... love you and before we die I want you to know.

    For me and probably with many others, the emphasis on Padme's love, and the pause between each of her adjectives describing her love, seemed a bit gratuitous and silly. It also made the love pledge a bit unbearable to watch. Although the above line might work on paper, in film it might have been better as something like this:

    Padme: But it seems our lives are about to be destroyed anyway. (turning to Anakin) Annie, (with a slight pause here) I truly do love you. And before we die, I want you to know... (Let the love music take care of the rest.)

    The point after all is that Padme does love Anakin and is finally being honest with her feelings, dropping her defense with the thought that they are going to die anyways in the arena. She can drop her resolve to protect Anakin's commitment to the Jedi and her own commitment for that matter, and finally reciprocate her love to Anakin. Remember that she was rather coy with Anakin, who was very upfront about his feelings, in the fireplace scene where she refused to admit her feelings. The slight emphasis on do is all that it takes to realize that their love is mutual; Padme's soft-spoken tone takes care of the full sentence.

    Attack of the Clones also suffers from congestion in that it has a lot of dialogue and investigation scenes with little action that the other two Prequels had. After the speeder chase, the next action scene takes place in the middle of the film with Obi Wan vs Jango. Although the last fourth of the film is filled with fights, it comes a bit late, after the viewer's eyes have already begin to gloss over. In fact, a lot of people have told me that when they watched AOTC for the first time, as kids, they began to feel drowsy and/or bored during portions of the movie (one even told me he fell asleep [face_plain]).

    But you use the term hate to describe the feelings directed towards the movie which suggests that you're talking about something else: the PT bashers. The majority of people who hate the movie come under a very unfortunate section of the Star Wars audience who take issues with the PT in general for BS reasons. It's best to understand that they have little to bring into the discussion, or any discussion for that matter, and to simply refute their absurd criticisms of the movie when you run into them. I doubt anyone here will respond to by stating their hatred of the movies; those people will be found in the comments section of RLM's AOTC review.

    Glad to know that you and your son enjoyed watching the movie. :)
    Last edited by Komodo9Joe, Nov 17, 2013
  4. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Aside from being a little too silly here and there (e.g. JJ Binks), I like just about everything. The dialogue and such was imperfect, but it was also that way in the OT. I loved the story, the characters, the acting (again, the OT was not Marlon Brando-in-his-prime in this area either, but I liked the final product, and thought the acting meshed well with the SW spirit; there is more to being entertaining than pure technique and acting chops), the special effects and all of those unforgettable sets (be they CGI, real, or both). I was easily the most moved by ROTS.

    I was reading some old reviews the other day that were panning ESB (from the time when it came out). I think history will look kindly in that same way on the PT; I think they will one day be looked at as classics that were put down in their day.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/movies/review97/empirestrikesbackmartin.htm

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...Back-the-Telegraphs-original-1980-review.html
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  5. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    Some of the saber duels were exciting, even though the acrobatics were over the top sometimes.

    Qui gon Jinn was a very compelling Jedi. He died too soon.

    Naboo ships are beauties.

    John Williams. 'Nuff said.
    Last edited by Sarge, Nov 17, 2013
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  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I liked that they showed the old Jedi Order in action.

    I liked that we were introduced to Luke and Leia's mother and I liked that, in the first two prequels, she was a strong and intelligent political leader.

    I liked the parallel with the ROTJ throne room scene: "Turn to the Dark Side. It's the only way to save your friends."

    I loved Qui-Gon Jinn, Mace Windu and Shmi Skywalker.

    I liked that Darth Vader was once a scared, emotional kid with a bit of a sarcastic streak.

    I loved Naboo as a setting. I loved Anakin and Padme's wedding.

    I liked that Palpatine was once considered a benevolent leader and a political mentor of sorts to Anakin Skywalker's wife.
  7. SkywalkerSquadron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2013
    star 4
    I liked so much about the prequels there is too much too list. Like the OP, I am also a prequel lover, I love all six Star Wars films. I can see reasons why some people might not enjoy them, but I think the good outweighs the bad. It would be easier to make a list of stuff I disliked, because of how much I like them.
    Last edited by SkywalkerSquadron, Nov 17, 2013
  8. Loupgarou Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    I'm not really what you'd call a prequel lover but i love naboo Starships, and find the universe of the prequels fascinating when explored outside the films. I like the CIS's general aesthetics and musical theme. I also really like Anakin's ROTS jedi outfit. Really, basically everything aesthetically.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  9. AnakinColodin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2009
    star 2
    Gotta agree with above.

    I love the part of ROTS up till they land at the Senate. This is the only time we got to see the reason why Obi-wan called Anakin a good friend. Thankfully one of the things the TCW cartoon got right was there relationship.
  10. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Like?

    I love:

    - The visuals
    - The music
    - The actors
    - The characters
    - The direction
    - The dialogue
    - The world design
    - The sound design
    - THE STORY
    - The cinematography: lighting, camera positioning, and framing (as well as more obscure technical qualities)
    - The colour palettes of each movie: virtually a language unto itself
    - The technical brilliance of the effects: practical and digital
    - The action sequences
    - The quiet interludes
    - The elliptical intercutting and the slightly-patchwork nature of the scenes and the imagery
    - The locales, the riffs on genre, and the mood(s) of each movie
    - The operatic, arch nature of the storyline and grammar of each movie
    - The manifold transitions: big and small, subtle and epic
    - The brash mix of comedy and tragedy churning away and always strangely overlapping
    - The weird "spaciness" of each movie, especially the "alpha wave", oscillating dream tonality of AOTC
    - The audacity of each episode:
    I = "Flash Gordon" fairy tale mixed with "National Geographic" realism; regal yet slightly rough-hewn
    II = Retro Future Noir Fantasy mixed with Kubrickian disenchantment, Sirkian melodrama, THX cubicle horror, pastoral romance, and roughhouse war "found footage" theatrics (no, that doesn't even make sense to me)
    III = Greek Tragedy IN SPAAAAAAACE ("This is madness!" / "This is THE REPUBLIC!"); starts off with Indiana Jones shenanigans and climaxes in hell; then retreats into poignant solitude
    - The way Lucas pushed himself to cover new territory in each (see above)
    - The really minute visual and story details that reverberate down the saga for those willing or able to see
    - The way there ARE such minute visual and story details; and a ton of them
    - The way Lucas used the character of Jar Jar and the theme of clumsiness as satiric commentary and corrective balm for everything that happens inside of the films and outside of them
    - The way the films endlessly parallel the OT films but also constantly break off and go their own way
    - The way the films are relatively self-contained and don't entirely match, but also feel unified and complete, even independent of anything but themselves (including the OT)
    - The way the films are revolutionary in many ways, like the OT, and paved the way for other visual masterpieces like The Wachowski's "Speed Racer" or Zack Snyder's recent "Man Of Steel" (my own personal bias showing, but whatever)
    - The way they have encouraged me to think more deeply (hopefully) about films and all forms of visual art; all art, in a way
    - The fact that the PT films remain controversial and much-talked-about up to the present day


    ...and for all they continue to teach me about human nature, life, the universe, and everything.


    ....or, at least, myself -- which is kinda the same thing when you get right down to it.*


    *If you want to learn anything about anything, just look in THE MIRROR. ;) ;) ;)


    (But make sure you're really looking and that you're using a good mirror, obviously)
  11. Frank T. Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I don't like much of the prequel films and each is a disappointment throughout and in the end but I do like a few bits:

    Jar Jar(in TPM only)
    Maul v Qui Gon on Tatooine and Yoda v Dooku
    The visual styles of AotC(cinematography and design)
    The ruminations scene(the only scene that met my expectations)
    Yoda and the younglings
    Obi, Ani and Artoo adventure on Grievous' ship
    The picnic scene
    The digital animation of GG was seamless to my eyes
  12. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    I will agree with it has some cringe worthy dialogue and I never seen Star Wars as a great movie to show cause writing. However also I will point out that Anakin was a teen and if some people say love letters i wrong at 17-19 they would call it CRINGE WORTHY. Doing dumb poems, song lyrics and trying way to hard to be cool with my love. So I can see the fault of Lucas in his writing but also can see that Anakin problem says dumb stuff to impress Padme. I just roll my eyes at his attempt.


    I agree that i was weird and the movie, even if i love it, isn't prefect.

    this is a little shocking to me cause it seemed like it has enough action, and not to much. If you ask me TPM is a lot slower and lot less action. Watching it with my son he is on edge a lot. It starts off with a somewhat action scene of a shipping blowing up, then the attack on Padme as the jedi chase down the bounty hunter. Then did dies down but not to long before Obi-wan is looking in the the clones and then he and Jedi fight it out. To me it seems about right, but then again I love the non action scenes a lot in Star Wars and other movies. I liked the whole Jedi talk about who made the clones, and the down fall of the jedi. Who was the Sith and how everything is going on. I like that it seems the Jedi and the Republic fall and its not 100% the Sith's fault. The jedi and everyone made mistakes. Its not blake and white.

    :)


    thanks. At the end of the day, what is great is my son is 7 and LOVES JANGO. We have fun watching it over and over. Not just this but the other films ones also, however he will NOT watch ROTS. He doesn't want to see Anakin turn *SPOILER ALERT* in to Vader. I love to OT the most but thats cause I grew up on them and its part of my DNA. Do have a some problems with the PT. Sure. But most of that me looking to hard for something to not like i guess.

    Oh as for falling asleep. Honestly every time I saw TPM in the theater I fall asleep during the pod race. And its still hard to watch the race scene. I found it really to long. It also seems TPM is the one that is hardest for me to watch over and over. It does seem to have a lot more slow parts.

    Also maybes its my age or that I saw it as a kid but I allow the OT to get away things I wouldn't allow in PT. Some of Han's lines like "one thing is for sure we are going to a whole lot thinner" is great, love it. But if I am honest. If Anakin or Obi-wan said something like this in the OT i would roll my eyes.

    thanks again for the great reply
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  13. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I love almost everything about the PT. They're among my favorite films and I could much more easily give you a short list of the things I don't enjoy.

    See…I understand why people don't like AOTC and I understand why they might enjoy something like The Avengers or the ESB romance. But, for the life of me, I just can't agree. Cheesy as Anakin's dialogue is, it's just always struck me as very…fitting. When I watch it, it makes me cringe, but I enjoy it because I can recognize that this is something that someone like Anakin would actually say. Someone who's been growing up in a very formalized, proper society, who's completely besotted with a beautiful older woman, who's confused and torn about his feelings and feels very passionately -- I can see him making that cheesy declaration. So it doesn't bother me. I understand why people say it sounds artificial to them, but I think it's very true to Anakin's character -- because the kid doesn't really know what he's doing and so he's expressing things in a very intense manner that doesn't sound natural.

    Just like Padmé's line -- yes, it's very saccharine and even cliché, but I still believe it. She's always struck me as a romantically inexperienced person and I don't mind if she sounds a bit over-the-top when she declares her undying love to Anakin (…or her dying love, considering they're going to their executions).

    In contrast, I've always found Han's "I know" reply to Leia to be very artificial. Now, I don't disagree with Ford that it's something Han might say. But I can't imagine it ever being said by someone who loves another person as they risk being separated and killed. To me, it just comes across as heartless towards Leia and I can't really think of a context (outside of directly referencing this pop culture moment) where replying "I know" to someone in such a harrowing situation would not come across as rather cruel.

    I also brought up The Avengers because as much as people loved to quote that movie and enjoyed the dialogue and "banter" between the characters, I cannot think of anything that sounds more artificial to me. There's a huge difference between artificial and awkward. Artificial, to me, is blatant pandering to the audience. Awkward is merely one character's response to another character and I think the audience picks up on that (intentionally) with Anakin and Padmé, which is why so many dislike the fireplace scene.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Nov 17, 2013
  14. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
  15. Ingram_I Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 2
    No one ever says anything that any of the characters say in any of the Star Wars films; to me, it's such a bizarre standard to demand otherwise. Artifice is the point, realism is not. Nothing about Star Wars was ever intended to be realistic or naturalistic, and nothing from the saga is. Everyone speaks in stylized forms that best represents their characters or storylines. Look objectively the banter and dramatic interaction between Han and Leia is as sophomoric as anything from the prequels. It's never natural or real, but it is likable and fun. Their romance is of the 'screwball' motif that is meant to appeal directly, and thus they speak and act accordingly. Anakin's phrasing and diction, however, is supposed to be awkward. That's the whole point of his character and the scene in question; observe how Padme immediately, physically reacts. Anakin, by this interval, is neither a grown man nor especially a womanizing scoundrel. He's swaggering in the face of danger, but when facing a pretty girl, he buckles and overcompensates when expressing himself. The aforesaid dialogue and its delivery perfectly illustrates this.

    It's only cringe-worthy when one keeps expecting these two characters to bond in a healthy way that will make each stronger and for the film to tonally reflect that, but such would undermine the very reasons as to why they're bonding in the first place. A specific story is being told here that eventually leads its way to tragedy, the cause for which is not entirely external. At it's core, unlike Han and Leia, the love story between Anakin and Padme is pained, and this being a Star Wars film where everything is elevated to melodramatic heights, it only makes sense that Lucas appropriated a more nakedly 'soap opera' aesthetic. I can never explain away your personal preferences; that's certainly not my intention. You either roll with it or you don't. But on the film's own terms there is a very deliberate creative logic at work that is, well, logical.

    As for why I like the prequels, two reasons:

    1. Natalie Portman ...all svelte and forbidden.
    2. It has lots of things that go *zoom!* real fast and stuff.

    I'm a man of simple pleasures.
    Last edited by Ingram_I, Nov 17, 2013
  16. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    The lightsabers, the Force, all the space travel.
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  17. Granger Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    The music, Liam Neeson, Darth Maul, the Kamino part of AOTC, Palpatine and Anakin at the opera, Palpatine revealing to Anakin that he is the Sith Lord.
  18. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    What I don't like is where this is going.

    To put that another way, I think phrasing this thread so that the assumption is that people disliked everything they didn't mention seems likely to cause problems.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Nov 17, 2013
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Meh, if we can keep it strictly on "positives about the prequels" it will be fine.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  20. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The different planets, the ships, pod racing, seismic charges, Palpatine, Shmi, Qui-Gon, the Execution Arena, Palce of Theed, the Gungan City, the music
  21. Padmes_love_slave24 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 2
  22. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I'll put it this way: There's nothing in there that I dislike.





    - I'm building a pod racer!
    - Good luck! You're gonna need it...

    /LM
  23. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    AOTC is the only episode of the six that I don't adore, but it has it's merits. I like all three prequels for the sheer scope of them. The premise of the films (particularly in light of the OT) is impressive, there is so much significance and weight to what is happening if you let yourself be immersed in it. The films really do work great together. The main characters' arcs and progression, particularly Anakin's, are I think a good rival for the orginals. The creative thought put into the design of characters, technology and worlds is quite an accomplishment. And of course, the music is a brilliant counterpart to the dramatic flow.

    TPM-
    Love this film. An age of innocence. The more stripped back nature of the visuals when compared to ROTS I think can actually add to the establishment of a simpler time (I can't remember if this is my observation :p).

    Qui-Gon is probably my favourite Jedi in the series, only really being outclassed by ROTJ-era Luke Skywalker. I found Qui-Gon's presence soreley lacking in AOTC, he is the Jedi I feel many on the Council shoild have been, although it does add some relevance when you look at Anakin's training and what may have happened if Qui-Gon had been there.

    Maul is a underdeveloped but cool charcter. There is some symbolism there that can possibly demonstrate what Vader would have been (or continued to be) if he didn't become crippled, and Anakin and Maul perhaps form an archetype of Palpatine's ideal apprentice.

    I love Pernilla August as Shmi, there is some sadness to the character when you see how it ends for her, and for Anakin. Showing Anakin as a boy was a brave move from Lucas IMO, and it actually gives the film a surreal or trippy feeling when you think about where his journey will take him. There is a hidden darkness that we are, I suppose, meant to put in the back of our minds for the time being. "Something elsewhere, elusive." "Don't centre on your anxieties Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now where it belongs." Part of the reason I love ROTS so much is the character as established in TPM. It hurts the tragedy of Anakin's fall if you dismiss this movie.

    Palpatine's introduction in this ep is quite underrated I think. The dual "characters" of Palpatine and Sidious make the Trade Federation's motivations and Amidala's struggle actually quite complicated. It's still cool to think I didn't know they were one in the same in the cinema.

    Visually the suggestion of a different time seems intentional, and while it's maybe not as visually rich as ROTS, there is a warm vibe to the film that works in it's favour. I'm no student of film, but the prequels are certainly well made. I don't find myself tiring of TPM, particularly it's symbiotic link to ROTS, and indeed the whole saga, keeps me watching time and time again.



    AOTC -
    This is the film I have the most problems with. I won't go into this, but for example Yoda's dialogue, and some of the acting and more nonsensical plot turns.

    A big reason I do watch it though is the repeated foreshadowing (such as fire and sand as metaphors for Anakin's demise), and ambitious symbolism. Such as Anakin meditating facing clouds forming a ying and yang.

    As Cryo has said on occassion, the movie feels quite dreamlike stylistically, I'm not eloquent enough to go into it in much detail.

    Shmi's death is arguably the most emotional scene in the saga. The acting and music, the symbolic glow of the fire, and the sheer weight of the moment when watched with the rest of the saga. Also Anakin sneaking up to the Tusken camp looks quite creepy, it really sells that this is where he starts down the dark path.



    ROTS-
    I don't know where to begin with this film. What's not to like?

    Well, the music and emotional impact of the narrative make it easily the most intense and operatic of the series.
    The other films, including the OT set this movie up beautifully, and it in turn, adds depth to every other Star Wars film. ANH, the least consistent with the other five, actually adds to the tragic element as we see Anakin is dead to Vader. TPM and AOTC build up to the ROTS pay-off in ways that I'm sure are obvious to the casual viewer, and in more intricate ways when you really sit down and watch them over and over. ESB's Vader shows that while Anakin is dead, he still holds some of the passion that turned him. ROTJ of course makes it all very satisfying and ironic by first showing the subserviance to the Emperor ROTS took Anakin to, and then showing Anakin returning.

    It has some of the best action scenes in a Star Wars movie to date, enough lightsaber action to satisfy most fans. While I could have used more scenes of Anakin's attack on the Temple as much as anyone, what we are shown works in deeper ways. Anakin selling his soul and turning on his bretheren is intense to watch, and actually surpasses the OT in terms of emotions encited.

    The character arcs satisfyingly bring Anakin and Obi-Wan from friends to mortal enemies, the Seperatists from bad guys to unlucky pawns, the Jedi from dominant to practically extinct and hiding, and Anakin's hate for evil; warped and twisted into something worse than the evil he hated. Padme loses strength as Anakin fades, Palpatine seizes control of the galaxy, and we end up full-circle back at ANH. There is much more to it than I have described, but I'm not really the person to do it.
  24. Ingram_I Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 2
    Or John Fordy.
  25. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    More Star Wars.

    -Like anything more needs to be said...
    :p

    ***

    QFT.
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