Awards What do you think of Award threads?

I trust that our moderators and the chosen host will do everything in their power to make sure they choose the best possible way to do this. No one is perfect but I'm sure they will try their best.

I also don't think that polls would be a good way to handle this at all.

And no one should be excluded from having their fics nominated be they host, mod or past winners.

IMHO.

 

Veng: That was supposed to read "short story/novella." Mar missed a word there.

Casper: I certainly hope that you in no way deduced that I am hosting these awards in order to garner popularity and recognition to myself. I'm doing this because I love the forum and the people therein, and I want to see those authors who deserve recognition to get it.

Having said that, this idea of private voting was something that Mar and I did in an effort to ensure privacy, cut down on server usage, and to keep an element of surprise. After all, what point is there in having an awards show if everyone knows the outcome already? These votes wouldn't go to me or anyone else via PM; rather, they would be sent to an email address for which Mar and I both know the password. If it would make people feel better, we could add one or two more people to the group counting votes. However, as Mar and I have stated repeatedly, these are our ideas - there's plenty of time to change things if people think that we've completely lost our minds.

And Casper, I could be misinterpreting your signature, but it looks suspiciously like self-promotion to me. If you plan on posting in the nominations thread, I'm afraid you'll have to change it.

Mel

 

Actually it's a pretty clear and concise and very self explanatory signature. No, I have no plan, or desire, to participate in the Award Thread in any way, shape, or form. I'm boycotting all participation. Is it advertising? Hell yeah, guilty as charge we all do advertising of some form.

Am I against private voting: absolutely. When Mr. P did the shows a few years back, we had the voting right on a thread, one thread, and right there in digital folks could count the votes. Does it take the mystery away? If it was like that voting thread back then absolutely not because you had to fight through 20 to 30 pages of post to count: I still don't know how P did it.

But the voting was right there: in fact one of the nominees did a recount and discoverd that there was a miscount; he didn't win, and the person that won didn't win either it was somebody else by one vote. The people could do their own counting.

As for wanting popularity: well you are getting it like it or not, along with doing it out of the love of the Forum. There's good and there's bad with taking on such a task. The flip side is the unpopularity because of it. Too many people I talked to was totally disenchanted on how the last award show turned out overall, from the way nominations were gathered to the voting process itself.

Now what I was merely suggesting was things that may very well bring people back to Award threads. It may not, of course. There's no guarantees in anything in life.

I maybe the only one that takes up the boycott: no offense to those who are going to participate or carry out the thread. In fact I hope they have a damn good time. Folks I know understand my position and they know I will be rooting for them if they get nominated.

Personally, though, the Award threads can be better, throughout the entire process. Otherwise folks will stay away and won't participate. And it won't be my fault or anyone elses that steps aside.

And again my signature is very clear: I waving for the newbies to not be afraid, go ahead, and participate. I don't need the extra confidence. I don't need the acceptence. I don't need the ego boost. I don't need the advertising. I've won in the past, I'm having fun, and its time for these folks who don't last three months on Fan Fiction Forum because nobody will read their better if not superior work to step up, introduce themselves, and use the Award thread as that extra confidence, to gain acceptance, to get an ego boost, and yes the Award Thread's ultimate goal to advertise their fics. The latter I don't blame those newbies; there's newbies authors, and they can't find newbie readers if you know what I mean.

 

Having been here for close to four years, I have seen a fair share of differing award threads. After a while I stopped participating because I did feel like they were an absolute popularity contest and because I caught myself doing the whole clique thing.

I think that these new awards will be good, but I'm not going to vote in them...just a personal choice because the last couple of ones and the way they were conducted.

Kit

 

I agree with Kit. I suppose I'm what would be termed a 'middle-agedbie' on these boards. Not as old as some in terms of when I registerd but enough to see various award threads come and go. Yes, they are tremendous fun. Yes, it's fantastic when you feel recognised. The problem is that PM'ing/sending people the votes (whilst it does maintain privacy) will not stop the cliques from voting for each other.

I speak as an ex-clique voter myself, and as an old washed up fanfic writer who writes simply for the fun of it and who never gets any votes these days anyway *sob*. I really don't think that there is any radical restructuring that will allow the awards threads to be much better. More dignified, for certain - which is a good thing - but newbies and oldbies and non-cliques will still get ignored no matter what you do. My opinion, for the little it is worth.

That said I hope everyone enjoys themselves with the award threads. That is what they are there for, after all. I'm sure the individuals hosting them will do a fantastic job.

 

You know, when I think about it, there's no way we can make these Awards perfect. Not by a long shot. There are too many people with many opinions, and we can't possibly please everyone.

However, what we can do is to try and do our best to make these awards as fair and enjoyable as possible. And to do our best NOT to turn them into a popularity contest.

Believe me, neither me or Mely are seeking popularity. We both are known in a certain circle of readers and writers, and we're happy about it.

About the voting process. As Mely said, we're having the votes sent to the special e-mail address because we want there to be privacy, cut down on server usage (and you may know that we're doing some restrictions and pruning all over the boards because of the Snowballs limitations) and keep the mystery. I believe that the voters will trust us in this, but as Mely said, we're willing to ask several other people to check the vote count as it comes. Also, I think that after the Awards are over, we could supply the password to the people who would wish to check the votes for themselves. After some time we'd change the password again. How does that sound?

 

I just wanted to clear-up any misperception there might have been about my comments, which I think there may have been based on following responses. I never meant to question of the integrity of any host or vote counter in my comment about having the votes done in threads. I have 100% confidence that all vote counting in these sorts of awards is done to the best of the ability of the hosts and with the best of intentions. My comment was only intended to say that having the votes in threads is the easy way of handling any post award questions (and I am the sort to take the easy way out ).

I can see the advantages of having the element of surprise in the awards, and think that has the potential of making them more fun in some respects. The only downside I see is a personal one: I enjoyed seeing who folks voted for so I could discover new authors and fics, and I also got a charge when I saw somebody vote for my fic that I didn't even know was reading it.

So please, don't feel I am criticizing or questioning the manner in which Mely and Mar (or anybody else in the past or future) are choosing to run this round of awards. Everyone does it differently, and all ways have merits. I don't think there's any way to eliminate the popularity factor in these sorts of things, which is why it's important to remember that these things are just for fun.

I do hope that a more inclusive tone is set this go around, with no single group dominating the scene by actively encouraging folks within the nomination and award thread to vote and root for their particular favorites. That sort of thing causes hard feelings and quite frankly takes all the fun out of it for me.

Hmmmm. So I guess I may have crossed the line into "bitter-oldbie-hood" in attitude, if not in "age".

 

Considering that I've never been nominated, nor will I ever be ( ), I would volunteer to help tabulate votes.

 

I enjoyed seeing who folks voted for so I could discover new authors and fics, and I also got a charge when I saw somebody vote for my fic that I didn't even know was reading it.

That's why we're having separate nominations and votes, Di-Lee.

We will have one huge thread with nominations. This will be all public, hopefully people will post the links to the stories, too, so it will be a good way to present also unknown authors and fics. No nominations through PMs will be allowed. And of course no self-nominations and no promotions.

After the nomination period is over, Mely and I will count the nominations and pick the five nominees with the most nominations for each category. This "final nominees" will be presented in a new thread, and the actual voting will start. All votes will go to the special e-mail address, no PM votes or votes posted on the thread will be taken into consideration.

After the voting period is over, the votes will be counted. To ensure the maximum fairness of the count, there will be a vote counting committee for this purpose, consisting of Mely, myself, and several other people (together it should be about 7-9 people). If you have any suggestions for the vote counting committee members, please post them here. Again, we don't want the committee to consist of our friends we chat with every day on AIM. We're trying to get responsible and respectable members of this board's community for that.

This would be all about the nominations/voting. Mely will talk about our other ideas.

::steps down and hands the mike to Mely::

 

As Mar said earlier, we're working on how the "Best Author" category will work. In an effort to make things palatable for as many people as possible, we're presenting our ideas here.

• Direct nomination/voting: Pretty self-explanatory. You nominate them and vote for them.



• The author who has the highest number of votes across all categories wins: Again, sel-explanatory. This is similar to the way things were done last year. The question about doing it this way is whether or not we count in votes for collaborations and round robins.



• The authors who have the highest number of total nominations are put on the slate for best author, and the populace votes on that: Carries the same problem as #2, but to a lesser degree, I think.

Comments? Suggestions?

Mel

 

My personal opinion is that it ALWAYS seems to be the same people being voted for. I do vote but the people I vote for seem to be the minority while the "usual suspects" (excuse the phrase ) seem to win.

It also seems like yet another way for all the good friends here to pat each other on the back while the strangers and lesser known yet just as deserving writers get ignored.

 

I appreciate your concern, Ginger_Jedi, but if a story is good and well-written, it DOES get replies. Therefore people know about it and will nominate it, if it's good.

Don't tell me there's a masterpiece somewhere out there and is completely overlooked. That's just not possible. Every story gets at least few readers. If it doesn't get many readers, it means it's not that good. Trust me, I was a newbie, too.

 

If it doesn't get many readers, it means it's not that good.

That statement is so completely untrue it makes my head spin.

 

I'm deeply offended by that remark. More often than not, fics that don't get many replies are good. It's just that they aren't centered around popular characters, are sometimes experimental in nature, or aren't of the genre du jour. If the majority of readers believe that statement, then it's no wonder the same groups of people get nominated for these awards time and time again.

 

OK, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way. Sorry, this has happened to me too often, I just expressed myself in a really stupid and inappropriate way. I apologize.

I just wanted to say that if a story IS good, it WILL get replies. I've read some "non-traditional" fics, too, and some of them were really good and got many positive replies.

Sorry again for my stupid hotheaded remark.

 

The Daughter speaks wisely. But the essential problem, in rebuttal to Mar's response: I just wanted to say that if a story IS good, it WILL get replies. I've read some "non-traditional" fics, too, and some of them were really good and got many positive replies.

Yes, they will get replies. But not nominations. And any votes will get drowned in the flood of votes for the "flavor of the moment." Has happened before.

I do appreciate the efforts you are both putting into this; I do fully believe that you will do your best to encourage wide participation and fairness. Certainly, your integrity is not in question, in MY mind anyway...

...but you aren't going to stop the "flavor of the month" readers from voting for the latest Obi/Mary Sue or Ani/Ami romance over someone perhaps more deserving if less widely read.

Unless you include the "Academy" rule... if you haven't read EVERY SINGLE story in the category, you can't vote. And that would have to be the honor code.

Still, go ahead with it. Maybe the discussion will lead to change. And as I said, I always find things I would otherwise have missed by following people's links, so it is a useful thing.

 

Just to add to what Renata said...
Some, if not most, of the best stories--best plotlines, best characterizations, best writing, best EVERYTHING--I've read here have had only a very few readers, or even just one or two. Jairen's "Echoes of the Future" and "Destiny's Shadow," Moonscribe's "Too Deep For Tears," and Renata's wonderful stories are just a few examples of this that I can think of off the top of my head. The number of replies a fic receives isn't always a very accurate measure of how good it is, at least not in my experience. Sadly, many excellent stories fail to get the attention they deserve, both reply-wise and as far as awards go.

 

So, if I don't get any readers, replies, or nominations, my story sucks, eh?

 

I already said it: I TAKE IT BACK.

Do I have to edit it?

I apologize. It was a rushed thing to say, and very stupid. I know. Can we get over it? I really didn't mean to offend anyone.

 

I agree.....I think the hardest is original character stories. I started one once, and I think it was by far one of my best, but it eventually died because people tend to have less interest in original chars.

I have written Obi stories, and only one of those has not been urged on to completion, and the one is now being finished because of renewed interest.

Let me ask a straight forward question. Have you ever seen an original character story be pulled up after a couple months with a plea of "FINISH THIS PLEASE?"

I know I haven't, nut maybe that's me.

This is no one in particular's fault, but it is a common problem of JC society.

One of my favorite stories has died because it was an original character, and this saddens me. This is the reason I said talented writers are sometimes overlooked and that is when I vote.

I think you are trying very hard, and this is a hard job. I know I could not do it. I thank you for your efforts at making these awards as balanced and fun as possible.

Mar: I think this is just feelings that need to be vented, and I'm glad they are getting out. I didn't mean this post to you, though I know you weren't talking to me, I just wanted to let you know. It's just a general comment. Don't take anything personally, k?

 

In reply to Renata's and princess-sari's posts:

That's true, there are the "flavor of the month" readers. But a change CAN be made. There are people who read excellent stories by relatively unknown authors and they're precisely THOSE people who can make difference.

To help the "non-traditional" stories be recognized, we made the "Ancient History / Far Future Stories" category, because yes, those fics went unnoticed last year. With more categories, more fics can be recognized. That's our goal.

Everybody can make a change. I don't want these awards to become popularity contest, and neither does Mely. And I don't believe any of us here wants it. If you want to make a change, DO it! Vote for stories that you think are great and go underappreciated!

 

Unless you include the "Academy" rule... if you haven't read EVERY SINGLE story in the category, you can't vote. And that would have to be the honor code.

Force, I wish we could impose that kind of restriction, and if we were to have some kind of committee picking the winners, I can guarantee you that we would. But you hit the nail on the head there - if we were to impose that without a committee, it would have to be on the honor code.

But something Mar and I have talked about should be brought up, since you mentioned this. We want to contact each nominee and get an excerpt from the story nominated and post it, along with a link to the story, in the thread announcing the nominees. That way each voter will have easy access to something that each nominee has written.

Good idea, bad idea? Better idea?

 

I appreciate your concern, Ginger_Jedi, but if a story is good and well-written, it DOES get replies.

Not always.

Therefore people know about it and will nominate it, if it's good.

That's not always true. Some of the best written stuff that had a lot of repsonses gets ignored and, as I said before, is lost in votes for all those who ALWAYS get noticed.

I think the reason is because there's people in the fan fiction forum who don't post here in the resource forum. Maybe it's because they feel uncomfortable posting in a place where they're likely to get ignored or told to "stop whinging about not getting any replies" etc...

I think the awards should be stopped. Isn't getting hundreds of replies in the actual story thread good enough?

 

[b[Ginger_Jedi,[/b] you're actually describing someone who is very much in support of the awards - me. I have thousands of replies to my name, a respectable number of nominations, and numerous requests from various websites to archive my work, but I've never won an award here.

Does it upset me? Not really. It was irritating at first, but then I realized that my readers just typically don't frequent the resource board, for whatever reason they have. Is that annoying? Yes, but I'm not going to beat them with melée sticks to get them to come in here and vote for me. A forced vote isn't a sincere vote, and if my readers don't feel like voting for me, so be it.

Having said that, I was actually honored last year to lose to a great story like RebelMom's Shackled Past because it showed me how much my writing is lacking. And let's remember, that's the point of all this: to improve, and to have a good time while doing that.

So no, I don't think we should disband the awards. Last year's led me to some very talented authors whose work has been valuable to me in imiproving my own writing, and I think others benefited as well. I think the merits of the awards outweigh the problems, and the merits make the effort in improving the awards worth it.