PT What Do You Think Of Padme Giving Birth to Luke & Leia Scene?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by SkywalkerJedi02, Jul 19, 2013.

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  1. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm no longer looking for relevance, or a children's answer to her life and death. I think there is no way to look at this from all angles and come out with a satisfactory answer, and I'm not a child, so I won't be satisfied with the "children's story" answer either. But I refuse to believe Padme actually lost the will to live, as the doctor claims. So I'm choosing to go with Palpatine's claims instead. If this makes me an imperial stormtrooper, so be it ;)
  2. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Padme died because The Force left her, hence her death could not be explained medically.
  3. SithStarSlayer PT & SWTV Ntwadumela: he who greets with fire

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    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Med droids are stupid.

    Sidious told us the truth...

    Vader killed her.
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  4. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

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    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    Can I still be a stormtrooper?
  5. SithStarSlayer PT & SWTV Ntwadumela: he who greets with fire

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    star 6
    As long as you can shoot straight, yeah.:p
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  6. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

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    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    The overall contrast of Vader's birth and the birth of his children is awesome and quite well overall. Looks good, works well, edited nicely, no complaints there.

    But I simply cannot, will not, give that "She has lost the will to live" thing a pass. It is, in my view, probably the silliest point of the entire Saga. It is out of character for Padme, a fighter, to lose the will to live when she has two kids to take care of in a galaxy that has suddenly become a very, very, very dangerous place - especially for Force sensitives, especially for descendants of someone who's supposedly the most powerful Force user ever.
    So she does what? Loses the will to live and dies? Literally just lies down and dies? Even if I ignore all the crazniess about that being a silly thing from the medical and logical point of view, it is simply completely and utterly out of character for Padme to just lie down and die.
    kainee, DarthDuckie, Yanksfan and 2 others like this.
  7. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    But how exactly does Padmé surviving protect her children in any way? Sure the galaxy is a dangerous place. But Luke and Leia won't be safer simply because they're with Padmé. In fact, I'd argue exactly the opposite since, with Padmé dead, the Sith believe the children died with her.

    I just find it puzzling that people are up in arms about Padmé "abandoning" her children but seem to have no issues with Padmé abandoning Luke to go and live with Leia.
    kainee likes this.
  8. SithStarSlayer PT & SWTV Ntwadumela: he who greets with fire

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    Wait. Did I miss something?
    DarthDuckie likes this.
  9. Merkual Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 4
    Contrary to what crap Hollywood films show us, not every woman is screaming bloody murder as she gives birth.
    ------------

    I must have very wimpy sisters :p

    they told me it blooming hurt, all 3 of them, :p
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    Dude, it does blooming hurt. I only had labor with one of my kids (the second was a scheduled C-section) but that 72 hours was enough.

    But there are other ways to react than screaming.
  11. Merkual Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 4
    suppose, I haven't really gotten into that conversation with them,

    and since I'm not a father myself (or been present at any birth) I don't suppose I can comment, the way she was as still as she was bothered me though, but eh
  12. Yanksfan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5

    You may be right, she may not have been able to protect them. But any mother worth their salt would do everything they could to at least *try*. It's maternal instinct. And Padme should've fought tooth and nail to survive so she could be there for them.

    As for the alternate chain of events of Padme staying with Leia and not Luke? If the story had been developed correctly, that could have been explained. Especially if it was made clear to Padme (by Yoda or Obi Wan or whoever), that it was absolutely in the best interest of her children's safety to be separated. I'm sure it would've torn her to pieces to be separated from Luke, but again, as a mother, she would put his needs ahead of her own if she truly felt that was the best thing for him.
  13. EvilQ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2013
    star 1
    What do I think of the scene?

    Two words: poorly written.
  14. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2007
    star 4
    I thought, "Isn't there supposed to be more slime and red goo on those babies?" [face_dunno]
  15. MOC Yak Face Moderator

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    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    I don't think it was ever clearly indicated in the OT that Luke was abandoned by his mother. All we know is that he had no memory of her and Leia did.

    As for the birth scene, I didn't think it was that well done, but it doesn't bother me greatly in the context of the film overall.
    Last edited by DarthDuckie, Aug 7, 2013
  16. Samnz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    Don't you contradict yourself here?
    One the one hand you claim that it should be most important for a mother to "be there for them". Then, contrariwise, you mean that leaving Luke behind is acceptable because it would be " the best thing for him".
    That's basically my point (and I believe PiettHat's as well) all along. I just extended that line of argumentation and asserted that Padmé's death served both of her kids best. Her death was the only way for Luke and Leia to live a relatively happy and pieceful childhood and youth without being hunted by the Empire and their father.
    I just don't see how it can be acceptable to leave Luke on his own (because she "felt" it was "the best thing for him") but not to offer both, Luke and Leia, a better life by sacrificing herself (although that's most likely the best thing for them).

    And, since the problems of her death have been emphasized to death, let's not forget the logical problems that Padmé's survival would have provoked:
    20 years without any extensive imperial inspection of Alderaan in the search of Padmé and her kids?
    Leia unaware of her family history when the Empire is looking for Padmé and her kids?
    There's no galaxy news on Alderaan, is there?
    Leia not knowing about her family is problematic anyway, but it's just plain unrealistic with Padmé surviving. Padmé's death and the presumed death of her unborn kids as well is really the only way to make that unawareness as plausible as it can be.
    Last edited by Samnz, Aug 8, 2013
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  17. Yanksfan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5

    *tired sigh* No, I wasn't contradicting myself, and if you think I was, then you're missing the point.

    In both those scenarios I laid out, Padme was putting her children ahead of herself. In the film as shown, she was only thinking of Anakin and herself. I mean, heck, her last words weren't even "take care of my babies" or "tell them I loved them" or whatever. Her last thoughts were only of *Anakin*. And I'm sorry, but that's messed up. As a mother she should be putting her kids ahead of everything. And yes, she should've battled her grief, sucked it up, and survived for them. Because they were infants, they were vulnerable, they were *hers*, and her most basic instinct would be to protect them at all costs.

    And I"m gonna ignore the rest of "Oh, but the kids were better off." As I mentioned in my previous post, MAYBE they were. But that's besides the point. Because she had no way of knowing that. And to argue that in defense of the scene, is to pretend that Padme died as some noble gesture toward her children. And that's plainly not true. She "lost the will to live" because Anakin had gone to the Dark Side and she couldn't handle it. It's as simple as that. To say otherwise is to contort what's clearly in the script to support your argument.

    And again, that scenario with Leia never happened. So I'm not going to defend plot holes of a storyline that never came to fruition. That's silly, and again, beside the point. Piettshat wasn't arguing the plausibility of that storyline he was questioning why we never railed against Padme for her apparent "abandonment" of Luke. Again. I've already addressed that in my previous post.

    If you are still not convinced of my argument at this point, then I direct you to call your mom. Or any mother. And get their take on it.
  18. MOC Yak Face Moderator

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    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Yep, if the intention was to show some noble gesture by Padme it wouldn't have played out as it did and contained losing the will to live.
    Yanksfan likes this.
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    <<<This mother of two agrees with Yanksfan. I would take a bullet or ten for my kids but I would go down fighting for them; I would not "lose the will to live" while they needed me the most. Besides, "losing the will to live" is classic drama queen behavior, and while very immature people have kids all the time, having kids should be an indicator to drop the drama-queen bull**** and grow the **** up because it's not all about you anymore.

    I don't think Padme sacrificed herself to protect her children; the scene doesn't indicate that, nor does "losing the will to live" indicate that.
  20. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4

    What's bad about it?



    Fine. Padme doesn't "give up," however, Padme loses the will to live. Phrased differently, she dies of a broken heart. Like lots of characters have in the history of storytelling.


    No, long QT syndrome, which is what we're talking about, has a complex (and unreliable) diagnosis process and can only be reliably diagnoses during autopsy.


    Well yeah, the line is obviously there for the benefit of the audience.



    You're of course completely entitled to the opinion that art should reflect real life--you're throwing some good stuff away, though (ever tried reading Shakespeare?) but it's an odd opinion on a Star Wars forum.



    "Will" isn't something "you chose to have," will is having that choice in the first place. Padme didn't chose not to have the will to live, Padme didn't have the choice to live. She lost that. And "lost" implies non-volition.




    Losing the will to live isn't a voluntary thing, and has absolutely nothing to do with character. AFAIK, never in the history of storytelling has it ever been a "voluntary" thing.
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Aug 9, 2013
  21. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    Name one character in the history of storytelling who has "lost the will to live" who wasn't already a wuss.
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  22. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Luthien, after Beren dies for the first time, promptly loses the will to live ...

    And confronts the Valar Mandos, lord of the dead, and sings a tale of their quest so heartbreaking yet inspiring, that Mandos agrees to return them both to life- though she is now mortal and the next time she dies, her soul will go where those of humans go- out of the world entirely.

    She was far from a wuss, taking on even Morgoth, Sauron's boss, and singing him into slumber.
    Revenge of the Dak likes this.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    That's a Tolkien story I haven't read, but I don't think of people as strong when they promptly "lose the will to live" because someone else dies.
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  24. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4

    Elaine of Astolat, Romeo's mum, Lear, Maximillius, Hermione, Posthumus' father in Cymbeline, Isolde (and, in some versions of the story, Tristan), both Elisabeth and Tannhäuser, Elsa, Lúthien, Arwen, Denethor's wife whatever her name was, Erik the Phantom (debatable whether he was a wuss or not), Catherine Earnshaw (also debatable).

    Wusses: Brabantio, Enobarbus, the Queen in Cymbeline.
  25. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Some authors like Death By Despair, and have even heroes, strong-willed people, brave people, etc suffer it, some don't.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 9, 2013
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