What do you think of TPM as the months (and years) go by? - Official thread

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jedi_Learner, Mar 30, 2003.

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  1. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    But when many movie critics, fans, and even the actors themselves are "hard on the acting", maybe it means the acting is not consistently good? I'm not saying all the acting in TPM is bad, just certain parts and performers. Qui-Gon, for instance, was very well done, probably the best in my opinion.

    I would like to see an example of a movie where the media, fans, and actors themselves have criticized certain performances on the same level as TPM. Surely all those eyes aren't seeing things that are not there?
  2. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    But some people said the same thing about the classic trilogy, that they were vaccuous special effects extravaganzas with bad writing and acting.

    So what if there are more people like this when it comes to the prequels?
  3. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    So what if there are more people like this when it comes to the prequels?

    You read my mind -- I was just about to say that the prequels have gotten more criticisms (imo deservedly) than the OT. However, it really should not matter when it comes to your personal enjoyment of the film.
    One of my favorite westerns is the 1950s film Shane, and I recently saw it again and realized that the movie has more cheesy acting than I remembered.

    However, when you said you didn't understand why people "confused" her wooden acting with regality, that is where I begged to differ. I feel there was ample reason to believe her performance was simply flat like in that dinner scene, for example. That is why I mentioned the actors, the media (the reputable parts of the media at least), and the fans. I feel as if I am not alone in what I see.

    [edit] -- anidanami: So does that mean those, that liked the acting have to agree it bad because they say it is? No we don't Go-Mer feels Natalie did a good job. If he feels she did a good job she did a good job.

    You are correct.
  4. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Of course you aren't alone.

    Am I?
  5. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    But when many movie critics, fans, and even the actors themselves are "hard on the acting", maybe it means the acting is not consistently good? I'm not saying all the acting in TPM is bad, just certain parts and performers. Qui-Gon, for instance, was very well done, probably the best in my opinion.

    Yes and you would be right in your opinion. But just because I will take someone from the WWE again. Let's say Stone Cold says he put on a good match. Well he may feel that way. But did he keep ever one watching. If there were people who did not watch well then when they say he did not put on a good match they are just as right as the peple who say he did.

    That's the one thing about the US I like. I don't have to agree with what Stone Cold says, or what Natalie says. Just because she feels she did not do a good job does not mean other well see it the same way.

    You are correct.

    What part?

    I will take some one else Tom Hanks. I really like his movies. But I feel his wrost acting came in the movie "You got mail". Where as one of his very good roles in my opinion was Cast Away.
  6. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    The acting is pretty straightforward when it comes to criticising...

    Jake Lloyd has some good moments, but mostly he got stuck with some really crappy scenes/dialogue like the "Yippee" stuff and the end space battle. He sounds like a kid playing a role, he just doesn't come across as a character really in those situations.
    I think he did a better job in the podrace than he did in the ending and some of the dialogue scenes, still, he didn't have to do much acting, just REACTING.

    Natalie Portman really gets on my nerves when I watch any part of TPM anymore.
    She's either smiling at awkward times (Like when Jar Jar gets his hand caught in the Pod Racer engine) or she sounds like she's playing a role like Lloyd, especially when she's in the Pod Racer hangar {"You've never one a race? Not even finished."). She just sounds like she's repeating lines without much emotion, even her "surprise" isn't very surprising... I mean her fate and her planet's depends on Anakin's boasts and Qui-Gon's feelings, I'd think she ought to be more concerned.

    I'll admit that I found the Japor Snippet scene to be one of the worst, mainly because it kind of doesn't make sense with in the context of their relationship of the film (It would have worked better if Anakin was giving more clues about a future relationship, but Lucas cut that stuff!) and I find the acting just makes it silly.
    I'll admit that most of my displeasure with Anakin and Amidala in TPM has carried over to AOTC. Lucas had some great ideas for the two in early drafts of TPM (Both of them flying in the end TPM space battle) that would have brought the characters together, but I feel more and more they they are together for the purposes of the story, not because there is any chemistry between the characters (Or even the actors).

    Liam Neeson did a great job, as did Ian McDiarmid, Pernella August... Ewan did well with what he had to work with, but I think Lucas wrote the character better in AOTC and is shows that he enjoyed playing him more in that film.
    I think even the guys playing Nute and Rune did a great job coming across as powerhungry cowards.

    The big difference between the PT and OT, is by formalizing the characters too much, we really don't feel that much tension in the story.
    When Luke gets upset about Han & Leia in his vision on Dagobah, Mark Hamill's acting really gets you into their storyline. You worry about what's going to happen to them.
    When Padme and the Jedi voices their concern about Naboo in such a bland tone, you really don't give a ****!

    Notice I didn't take a shot at Jar Jar Binks. I won't because I think he was played exactly as he was conceived, some audience members found him overly naive and annoying, but that was what he was supposed to be. I just think the humor with him was too overdone sometimes.
    He may not have the range that Gollum does as a character, but he did what he was supposed to... Anymore, I think Ahmed Best/ILM did a better job of creating a character than Portman has done.

    As for as the rest of the film, I think the CG and the art design holds up. I think there are storytelling concerns in both PT films that bring each down when you sit down and think about them (If you've been on these boards for any length of time, you see them mentioned again and again!).
    For their part, the OT makes more sense on it's own without the PT storywise and only until ROTJ do things get pretty nonsensical, like Luke and Leia being twins, and the stupidity of the Empire in combat.
  7. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    What about Luke, Han, Leia and Chewbacca casually roaming about the Death Star undetected in ANH?

    What about Darth Vader being Luke's Father?

    What about Yoda being a muppet?

    The "silliness" didn't start with ROTJ.
  8. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Okay, some of that is really pushing it...

    What about Luke, Han, Leia and Chewbacca casually roaming about the Death Star undetected in ANH?

    Let's see, obviously it was in the best interests of the Empire to give the heroes a challenge, but not to let them think that their escape was allowed so that the Empire could track the Falcon to Yavin IV.
    I know Lucas had an alternate cut that was really comical with them hiding weapons and such, but as it plays in the final film, the D.S. was large enough that people weren't on every level. In fact, they only are seen "casually roaming" ONCE after the Trash Compactor scene... All other times they are evading Stormtroopers.

    What about Darth Vader being Luke's Father?

    [face_laugh]
    Okay, you aren't being serious with this are you?
    Why not say that SW is just pointless, because it seems the bulk of the story deals with this fact.
    I think it's more interesting than having Anakin conceived by Midichlorians.
    Hmmm...

    Vader: Luke, I HAVE NO FATHER!

    Luke: What?

    Vader: I was conceived by Midichlorians. Microscopic lifeforms that tell us the will of the Force.

    Luke: That's not what Yoda or Obi-Wan said! That's not true! That's IMPOSSIBLE! You're some kind of a MUTANT FREAK!!!

    Okay, it may be bit more interesting is some aspect, but I think the scene would go on forever and cause more problems then it's worth. ;)

    What about Yoda being a muppet?

    What about Jar Jar being a CG model?
    What about Ewoks being dwarfs in bear suits?
    What about C-3PO being a British actor in a fiberglass suit?
    The technology used to create a character has little to do with their use in the story or how they come across onscreen.
    If you don't like Yoda, then don't like him, but don't do an "about face" when he's a CG model instead of a puppet. It's about character.

    I think Jabba is much more interesting in ROTJ than in the S.E. or TPM.
    Why?
    Becuase he is a part of the story, we get to know him, cut him from TPM or ANH and you don't lose anything about him or hurt the story.

    The "silliness" may not of started before ROTJ to you, but I think this thread got silly with your last post. ;)




  9. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Jake Lloyd has some good moments, but mostly he got stuck with some really crappy scenes/dialogue like the "Yippee" stuff and the end space battle.

    "Yippee" does not bother me. Not from a kid. Not in the way Lucas is making these movies and I thought Jake was great in the final space battle. Seemed very believable, very natural, considering the character of Anakin and the situation he was in.

    I would like to see an example of a movie where the media, fans, and actors themselves have criticized certain performances on the same level as TPM. Surely all those eyes aren't seeing things that are not there?

    [face_laugh] I have no idea why it bothers you there are fans who enjoy the Prequels as much as the Originals. I have no idea why it is important to you those fans admit to seeing flaws in the Prequels that you see. [face_laugh]
  10. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I don't feel the same way... maybe if the kid had some heart when he had to say "Yippee!", like a really happy kid would, but it plays like he's just saying it so he could get through the take.
    I'll admit, I think the "Yippee" sounds silly, it would have made a ton of difference if the line was an emphatic "Yeah!" instead.

    I didn't care how the character was portrayed in the end battle. I realize he's never been in combat, and certain lines like "This is tense!" are fine, but he acts way different than he does in the pod race... In the race, he's not sitting there going "Oops" and stuff, he's got his act together.
    Seems to me, the pod race shows he's tough under pressure, the way he's written in the end battle, makes him seem as if he only can succeed through dumb luck and isn't relying on his gut. It seems out of place once he's been established as a kid that has a "feel" for building and operating things.
  11. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I, for one, do not have a problem with Portman's performance in TPM, nor the dialogue, especially hers. She had some good lines. But AOTC - man, that's night and day. Portman herself look like she didn't care half the time, and those lines - well, maybe that's why she didn't care. I find nothing regal about her AOTC dialogue. Regal dialogue may not be nature, but it is graceful. I did not see her dialogue as graceful.
  12. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    For what it's worth, I think she did do a better job when she was on Coruscant than when she was on Tatooine.
    I've gotten to the point that I didn't mind her in some AOTC scenes, but really, when it comse to her work in the PT, she's just something good to look at.* ;)

    *But still not as good to look at as Carrie Fisher was back in the day.
  13. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    In the race, he's not sitting there going "Oops" and stuff, he's got his act together.

    There is a difference in being an experienced Pod Racer and an inexperienced pilot in battle.

    the way he's written in the end battle, makes him seem as if he only can succeed through dumb luck and isn't relying on his gut. It seems out of place once he's been established as a kid that has a "feel" for building and operating things.

    I don't see it that way.



  14. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    There is a difference in being an experienced Pod Racer and an inexperienced pilot in battle.

    Yeah, that's right. I would think that after he's been through the beginning of the battle that he'd try to get back under control.
    If he had acted in the pod race as he did in the space battle, he would have been a smear on the Tatooine desert.

    I really don't know how to explain it any better. It looks like the kid is more serious in a race than he was in a life or death struggle. It kind of ruined any tension in Anakin's end subplot to me.
  15. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, that's right. I would think that after he's been through the beginning of the battle that he'd try to get back under control.
    If he had acted in the pod race as he did in the space battle, he would have been a smear on the Tatooine desert.


    Relax. If he had acted in the Pod Race as he did in the space battle, he wouldn't have come accross as an experienced Pod Racer. If he would have acted in the space battle as he did in the Pod Race, there would be complaints that he didn't act like a 9 year old who is inexperienced at piloting in a space battle.

    I really don't know how to explain it any better. It looks like the kid is more serious in a race than he was in a life or death struggle. It kind of ruined any tension in Anakin's end subplot to me.

    You explained your point fine. I understand what you're saying, we just disagree.

    :cool:
  16. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    Thanks Darth-Stryphe for the change of title. A moderator that doesn't forget and act straight away. 8-} :)
  17. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Was the title of thread changed? Maybe so, because once I saw the title I felt prompted to comment.

    I still think TPM was bad. Having not looked for spoilers or come to too many sites before the film was released, I entered it cold. Even the first wave of initial criticism in reviews did not sway me from thinkig that with 20 years of time to think, plan and enchance F/X, that TPM was going to be off the hook. Then I watched it and wondered "what the hell is nonsense?"

    There are numerous reasons for this, but the basics can all be pointed out quickly: plot, acting, lack of internal logic, etc. But one point I do want to make was just pure entertainment value. From this standpoint TPM was still bad! Amazingly, just as entertainment, it was not happening. It was pretty boring. The most exciting chracter has about 5 mintues of screen time and 1 line. The lore of the Jedi and Sith is not remotely fleshed out. It just seemed like the film was a bizarre set of decisions in light of the numerous ways GL could have gone with the story.

    Oh well...
  18. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    The most exciting chracter has about 5 mintues of screen time and 1 line.

    That's because Maul is punk. He is the Boba Fett of the PT. He may look cool but he is not importent to the whole story.

    He is needed to only show this: Palpatine is his master. If you watch TPM for the first time his character does not look like he would be someone who would be able to take on Maul. Yet Maul does not take him on. He has not taken him on in all the years he was training him. But why? Well because Palpatine is far more powerful the Maul.

    That's what Maul's character is showing. That even though he is a powerful punk. He is not as powerful as Palpatine.
  19. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Well, all you had to do was have Sidious give one order and Maul say "yes, my MASTER," to show who is in charge. i would hope Maul wouyld have a little bit more importance than this. Especially when he is supposedly the antagonist of the film. I mean: who is the villain of TPM?? Please don't say Palps. It's Maul, by default.

    Plus, Maul's face was plastered all over the place to hype up this film. I would think he has a little bit more importance than you give him.
  20. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Well, all you had to do was have Sidious give one order and Maul say "yes, my MASTER," to show who is in charge. i would hope Maul would have a little bit more importance than this.

    That would not work at all. Just him saying it does not show it.

    Especially when he is supposedly the antagonist of the film. I mean: who is the villain of TPM?? Please don't say Palps. It's Maul, by default.

    Ok if I can't say Palps then it's Sidious, the TF, and Maul. Maul is the punk.

    I would think he has a little bit more importance than you give him.

    Yeah his importance is to be Palps lap dog. His importance is the same importance of that of Jango and even Boba to live and die like a Punk.

    Maul is there as Vader's srtong side. Dooku shows Vader's other side.

    Maul should not be made into anything other then what he is. On less you want him for up stage Vader in the OT. Which I don't want to happen.
  21. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    There are numerous reasons for this, but the basics can all be pointed out quickly: plot, acting, lack of internal logic, etc. But one point I do want to make was just pure entertainment value. From this standpoint TPM was still bad! Amazingly, just as entertainment, it was not happening. It was pretty boring.

    We disagree. :)

    The most exciting chracter has about 5 mintues of screen time and 1 line. The lore of the Jedi and Sith is not remotely fleshed out. It just seemed like the film was a bizarre set of decisions in light of the numerous ways GL could have gone with the story.

    Especially with your last line, it seems you're saying you didn't get the movie you wanted. That doesn't make the movie a bad movie, except maybe to you.

  22. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Plus, Maul's face was plastered all over the place to hype up this film.

    One more thing. Well yeah because he became the new Boba Fett. Look Maul looks really cool. Same as Fett in TESB and ROTJ. But also like Fett I don't care what happens to Maul very much.
  23. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Look, the boba fett comparison does not hold water. Boba was a bit player who was a part of a group of bounty hunters. Maul is a Sith Lord. That automatically gives him far greater importance in the story. Plus Maul was sent to kill the two heroes of the film. Again, a very important role. And he actually kills the hero of the film, Qui Gon. It was bad decision-making to minimize his time and dialogue.

    As far as the film not being what I wanted, I really did not know what to expect. I entered the movie very cold. And that argument is not a very persuasive one anyway. All I expected was a good quality, entertaining film. Did not get it.

    In terms of entertainment -- Where was the excitement in TPM? Where were the fun moments? What scene in TPM absolutely wowed you??


  24. Darthsuggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    star 4
    I liked TPM in theater and I still like it equally.
  25. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I feel for TPM strongly today as I did in 1999. This movie ROCKED and still does.
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