What does George Lucas need to do to make a good movie?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by LORDeron_MAULer, May 22, 2003.

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  1. LORDeron_MAULer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2003
    star 4
    ok the prequals so far have been ok, but they do have numerous flaws. You think George Lucas film has to change its strategy a little bit?

    The Phantom Menace

    This film recieved a huge amount of money, but also recieved a large amount of bashing. It may be becasue of all the characters deseigned to appeal to different people, Jar Jar and little Ani. Personally i thought they were ok characters, Jar Jar seemed funny to me, buy he seemed to be the most annoying part charcter in the saga to many people, even though he attracted the kids. Jake lloyd's part seemed ok, in recent musing however, Ani's role in in the battle of naboo may have trivialized it a bit. However, the film did show a great new SW world with the Republic and the Prime of the Jedi. Darth Maul was cool, so was darth Sidious, despite their lack of screen time. and Qui Gon, and Obi Wan. Those four actors were amazing playing them too. People thought here was too much reliance on specila effects though. Jake Lyold, and Shmi's also recieved some critism.


    Attack of the clones

    This movie was good, but different. It didn't recive as miuch bashing on the Jar jar front, but Hayden's acting got a LOT of the critical analysis. The action was also amazing, but the plot for being weak the actors and especially dialogue was bashed. It also didn't show the chemistry between Master and Padwan present in TPM, it also didn't have the a climactic duel quite as good as Duel of the Fates. Though it did have Yoda w/a lighsaber [:D] as well as many other force users. Christopher Lee was pretty good too, it was overall satisfactory.

    Episode III

    - Darkness: It is said this film will be the darkest of the Star Wars films, this is good however hopefully it it will not be depressing, but not to light. It seems liek it will...

    - humor: one ofn the good things about media is the ability to show serious moment as well as funny ones... Attack of the clones as slightly lacking there, its predacessor was a little better but htere is still room for improvement. The Two towers was good at this, with perfect example scenes such as when 10000 Uruk Hai are stamping there spears, and Aragron is making his speech ot he Elf archers, for the coming hopeless seeminly battle then suddenly it cuts to Gimli, who can't see, and Legolas says "do u wnat me to describe it to u or do u want me to find u a box?" then i cuts back to the serious parts. I'm hoping theyu will utalize Obi Wan's sarcasm more.

    Poetry: Another feature of the Lotr movies is all the poetry written into it, with touching lines and emotional empatic scens "all we have to decide is what to do with the tiem given to us" or "how did it come to this?" and tense scenes like "there ccoming, they here..." "NAAZGUUUULLL!!!!" kind or Qui Gon's death scene in the Phantom menace. the SW recently have not been quite so obvious, with their poetry, well not was much as Lotr. Episode III has great potential with the collapse of the republic, and Jedi purge. John Williams is a good music writer so he will probably pull of some good music to go with it

    the unexpected... Lucas uses shock twists in his films, i wonder if this film needs one, this is the last one so it might leave a large portion of the fans upset with out another film to accpet it, becasue it took Luke until the next film to accept Vader was his father, i don't knwo how long it took the fans, hoepfully the film won't be perdictable , we know the bad guys win, but we don't knwo how they did it.

    innovation: Star Wars films have done revolutionry things wehn they were made, especially in the OT, in TPM duels of the fates was awesome, and in AOTC we had YODA. what we have in Episode 3?


    With films like the Matrix and crouchin tiger hidden dragon, i wonder how the fighting will be, . Being the last SW film we need ExTREME stuff, Yoda & Mace force pushing artillary fire away, of battle of the suepr wizards Yoda vs palpatine... hordes of Jedi and fighers.

    Lucas need to explain everyhting too and make it afittign edn to the saga,
  2. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    With films like the Matrix and crouchin tiger hidden dragon, i wonder how the fighting will be, . Being the last SW film we need ExTREME stuff, Yoda & Mace force pushing artillary fire away, of battle of the suepr wizards Yoda vs palpatine... hordes of Jedi and fighers.

    Actually, this is the last thing Lucas should do. STAR WARS is made in service of the story, not to please the rabid fanboys. Showing Yoda and Mace doing "extreme" stuff like block artillery fire with their hands would not only be corny, it would be entirely inconsistent with the two movies that precede it where the Jedi are getting weaker, not stronger.

    I think Lucas needs to do exactly what he did with the previous two films and simply tell a good story in the way it needs to be told.
  3. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
  4. Jedi Daniel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2000
    star 5
    Well said Durwood.

    Lucas should just carry on with the story he set out to do and if your a true Star Wars fan you will accept the movie for what it is and not what it could have been.
  5. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, I think Lucas pretty much just has to show up and it will be a good movie.

    As much as I've criticized certain directions that Lucas has taken with the PT, there's no doubt in my mind that he is a genius and an incredible storyteller.
  6. LORDeron_MAULer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2003
    star 4
    well, fine forget the artillary fire... (must've been the Matrix trailers getitng to me) but shouldn't the Jedi go out in a blaze of glory? at least some of them? how about.... Yoda hoping across a hall slicing with his lightsabers... or force pushing an AT ST away,
  7. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    Good lord, no.

    They haven't collectively earned a blaze of glory. They have been out-smarted and out manuvered at every single step in the last 2 movies. The only thing that didn't go according to Sidious' plan (in theory, maybe it did) was that Qui and Obi got the Queen offplanet in TPM.

    Everything else, Palpy has been 20 steps ahead of them. And when the obvious was staring them right in the face, they choose to ignore it. Mace said Dooku couldn't possibly be behind the attack. Dooku TELLS Obi that a Sith is in control of the Senate, and they don't believe him.

    No, I think Palpatine will also manage to start taking them out and they won't have a clue about how to fight back.
  8. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Wow, that's pretty harsh, although accurate, Gay-Len.

    But I can see the appeal of what LORDeron is saying: yes, the Jedi are aware that the gig is up, so to speak, but will they go out like "punks", to quote SLJ?

    I think not.

    Will they attempt to kick as much butt as possible while still alive?

    I hope so.
  9. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    But how much butt can they really kick when everyone will be ut toi get them?


    Actually, I could see this happening, which explains why Obi-Wan and Yoda are pretty much the only ones left: they actually had the sense to run.
  10. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Yes, but they also had REASON to run: the protection of the Skywalker twins and their mother.

    Maybe what some people have been saying will be true and Mace Windu will die a glorious death, delaying the Imperial/"Republic" troops from reaching Ben and Yoda.

    Or Mace and others - I can see it: "My fellow Jedi, we MUST protect the lives of Master Yoda and Master Kenobi. If we must all sacrifice our lives to accomplish this task, then so be it."

    And then we see AnaVader striding towards them, with a couple squads of ARC troopers or something.
  11. DarthNamitt Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    "Lucas should just carry on with the story he set out to do and if your a true Star Wars fan you will accept the movie for what it is and not what it could have been."

    Talk about complacency. You might wanna pass on that advise to your kids. Lets all accept our crappy lives and failures for what they are and not for what they could have been. Lets us do nothing that might change our personal goals and dreams for the better.
  12. DarthNamitt Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Lucas needs to do only one thing to create one hell of a movie. Write, write, write and write.
    If he wants to appeal to kids he can do so without sacrificing any adult themes that kids might not be old enough to understand, much less care about.
    Some of the most entertaining movies recently made and targeted at younger audiences have been written and re-written time and time again during production, in order to get it just right.
    Movies like Shrek, Ice Age and The Emperor's New Groove are good examples of this. All very entertaining movies that appeal mostly to kiddies but end up winning over the adults, such as myself.
    I believe Lucas could apply some this to Episode 3.
    Although 3 years seem like a long time to make a movie, in the case of Star Wars its a rather contricted time space, and I think that hurries up much of the story development.
    Theres nothing worst than having a deadline to everything you do. Believe me, I know.
    I enjoyed AOTC on the action front, but the love story just leaves a lot to wish for.
    I think if Lucas allowed himself another year or 2 to release Episode 3, he would do much better than what he did with the last 2. And I certainly wouldnt mind the wait if it was worth it. Just my opinion.
  13. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "What does George Lucas need to do to make a good movie?"

    As soon as someone finds out, please tell Lucas! [face_laugh]

    "STAR WARS is made in service of the story, not to please the rabid fanboys."

    Like the Yoda-fighting skit? ;)

    "Although 3 years seem like a long time to make a movie, in the case of Star Wars its a rather contricted time space"

    It's called "post-production". ;)

    "and I think that hurries up much of the story development."

    Agreed.

  14. lexu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 6
    I'm not sure E3 needs to be so over the top with fight sequences. There's a point at which the amazing CG action drowns out the saga. In any case, we have what's certain to be an amazing duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin, but IMO, Lucas would be better off to make the emotion of the scene what's memorable, and not jack it up with Matrix-esque fighting. At the core, Star Wars is great because it has all the awesome action and suspense, but it's only secondary to the emotion.
  15. TK-101788 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2003
    star 3
  16. Jedi Daniel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2000
    star 5
    Talk about complacency. You might wanna pass on that advise to your kids. Lets all accept our crappy lives and failures for what they are and not for what they could have been. Lets us do nothing that might change our personal goals and dreams for the better.

    I was never talking about our 'crappy lives and failures' I was talking about Star Wars. Just accept Star Wars for what it is since it's GL's story. Complaining what you think is wrong with it and what you would have changed is not going to change it so it's kinda pointless.
  17. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "it's kinda pointless."

    Kinda like most of the other discussions on these boards. ;)

    You going to try to put an end to those, too?
  18. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    He needs to hire talented screen writers and produce 4-5 drafts before he even considers shooting.

    Apart from that he needs a miracle.
  19. Jedi Daniel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2000
    star 5
    Kinda like most of the other discussions on these boards.

    You going to try to put an end to those, too?


    Nope discussing Star wars is great.
  20. Kir Kanos Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 1999
    star 4
    There is a lot arguably that could be put into Episode III. I think Lucas needs to keep it simple & stick to the story, but at the same time not try to keep the plot too simple minded. Episode III should have great editing, an unexpected twist in the story somewhere, & good and memorable dialogue and not stray away from what it is supposed to be, a tragedy. No more happy happy joy joy moments and silly humor, like creatures stepping in poodoo & frogs belching, as much as I find moments like that humorous they don't belong in Episode III. And please no other "forced" attempts to try to lighten the mood of this movie. ALL THE JEDI ARE GOING TO DIE & THE BAD GUYS WILL TAKE OVER! (Save for Obi Wan, Yoda & the Skywalker twins). The chosen one, Anakin is going to turn to the dark-side, fight his master, & be crippled & disfigured for the rest of his life. He is going to turn his back on the woman he loves, abandon the children he has never known and will then be trapped in a mechanical life support suit so that he can continue to support Palpatines evil Empire & enslave the galaxy. It should be extremely difficult to watch, but at the same time thrilling as we are going to see the culmination of what we have known to be the end of the prequels. This is not going to be a movie popular with little kids & it shouldn't try to be either. The only ray of hope in this chapter will be the birth & hiding of the Skywalker twins, Luke & Leia ("A New Hope"). And that's how it should be.

    If Lucas tries to mix the emotions (sadness & happiness) in this movie too much then it will not be as good as it could be. This doesn't mean you don't have moments of sarchastic humor, which is typical in a Star Wars movie & was throughout ESB. But, it does mean that you don't have thrilling victories by the good guys except if its in the beginning (the end of the Clone wars). This however will be a false victory & short lasted as we all know that Palpatine has no intention of relinquishing his power "when this crisis is over". I also hope that the quasi-love story between Anakin & Padme, that I still find difficult to believe, does not take up much screen time either. They will have a falling out at some point as Anakin's emotions & lust for power will undoubtedly drive a rift right through their relationship before the twins are born.
  21. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    fair enough, Kir.

    At the same time, there is a device called "comedic relief". If a movie gets too tense, too emotional, too depressing, the director uses comedic relief to lighten the mood.

    It can be misused, though: look at TTT. Poor Peter Jackson, the battle at Helm's Deep was awesome, but at the most tense part of the film, every 30 seconds Gimli has to say a one-liner.

    I think things were supposed to look hopeless at that point, yet we've got this stupidly-timed comedic relief which screws everything up.
  22. LORDeron_MAULer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2003
    star 4
    i didn't mind that comic relif in TTT.

    anyway Obi Wan has comments that have been very funny in the prequals "the negotiations were short" or "good job. i hope GL gives him some lines like that. And that he can deliver them wiht the same excellence as in The PhantomMenace, his AOTC lines were not as great, i'm not sure who's fault that is his or the script. The SW filsm have not been that obvius with poetry, they beocme more obvious after the film is analyized, i was just suggesting he MIGHT mayeb make it I lmore visible on the surface. I also think that Episode III should have a hoepful note at the end. I iamgien Obi Wan soemwhere at the end crying out in despair after the Jedi purge, everything has gone to hell,: his apprencitce has turned dark, all the Jedi are dead, the Republic has fallen, he failed his master, then suddnely Yoda come to him, showing he survived and then Qui Gonn appears to them and tells them to keep their faith even though the world has crumbled, that seems to be pretty poetic to me, it would certainly end the movie well i think. not too deppressing an end, then they can show stormtroopers marching for a few minutes and Vader and Obi wan staring out across space at each other or soemthing like that... what you think peoples?
  23. Kir Kanos Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 1999
    star 4
    "I also think that Episode III should have a hoepful note at the end."

    The little glimmer of a hopeful note will be that the Skywalker Twins are safe. I doubt there will be any other hope given than that. If there is too much hope & too much foreshadowing, then everybody will be wondering, "Why the hell did Yoda or Obi Wan not take Luke & Train him from infancy?" I think Yoda & Obi Wan will come to the conclusion that the prophecy of Anakin bringing balance to the Force wasn't in their favor, even though we know that in the end he will destroy the Emperor. I believe that Obi Wan & yoda will believe that things are pretty hopeless and that the time of the Jedi has passed However, I think that Obi Wan still believes deep down that possibly the Skywalker twins may of yet be of some importance, but is too fearful of repeating the same mistake as he did with Anakin. Instead, we all know that Obi Wan waits until Luke is a young adult and lets him make that decision for himself and allow Luke to build "attachments" with his friends that results in him running off to try to save tham and almost causes his demise in ESB.

    Obi Wan is obviously on Tattooine to keep an eye on Luke. I don't think anybody would dispute that. What I would love to see in the way of foreshadowing would be to see Qui Gon's spirit appear to Obi Wan or at least speak to Obi Wan in Star Wars A New Hope and tell him that, "It is time for balance to return to the Force." Obi Wan appears to get some premonition, grabs his cloak and marches out of his dwelling. We of course next see Ben coming up over the ridge making the sound of a Krayt dragon & scaring off the Tusken Raiders. I think that scene is going to have infinitely more impact for audiences after the prequels are finished even if GL decides to not tinker with it.
  24. scuiggefest Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    If he makes it anything like what we expect it will be AWEsome. Just to be redundant though:
    - Lot's of funny gags (No problem there with the first 5)
    - Lot's of monsters and LightSabers (Just like the other 5)
    - Tie Episode 2 to 4 (This is the only one I sorta doubt but it's not that important.)
  25. classixboy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    What does George Lucas need to do to make a good movie?

    If he wants to satisfy me, then he just needs to continue doing what he's been doing since ep. 1. I love the new movies.
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