What does George Lucas need to do to make a good movie?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by LORDeron_MAULer, May 22, 2003.

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  1. LORDeron_MAULer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2003
    star 4
    What i and others who agreed with me said was not that it should be lighthearted, but leave some apparent room for hope. Having the republic collapse and without adding hope will end the star wars movies on a very sad note, i don't wan to forever remeber it liek that, i would get pretty depressed after that. i mean the OT had its ending, the PT should have it's a seprate one, this is the last Star Wars movie. I know the PT is a tradegy, but it is not a hopeless one, and i think they shoudld how that.
  2. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    But it's not the last Star Wars movie, RotJ is. So why will you forever remember the end of SW as the end of Episode III...?
  3. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Agreed.

    I think the hopeful aspects will be implicit - Obi-Wan and Yoda get away with Padme and the twins.

    Maybe we get to see Bail Organa, Mon Mothma and others swearing "we will declare our lives to rebel against Palpatine".

    So we have the political rebellion, and the hero in hiding a la Merlin hiding the babe Arthur. Hmmm....
  4. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Absolutely! It is hopeful in its very nature! :)
  5. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Then Ep.IV: A New Hope is mislabelled.
  6. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    No, that's right MeBe - what I mean is that you'll have to look for the hopeful aspects in Episode III, but they are there, even if they seem incredibly faint at the time.
  7. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    GL already shows how weak the jedi have become with the staggering numbers that are killed at the end of AOTC

    Yes, quite a few are killed. But how was it not possible that a lot them would be killed? There were about fifty or sixty Jedi in the Arena (the rest were either fighting in space or outside the Arena), and in the Arena they went up against at least a thousand droids. The Jedi are powerful, but they aren't gods. They're massive losses at Geonosis were quite acceptable since they were greatly outnumbered.
  8. DarthExtras Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2003
    star 1
    All Lucas has to do is remember that the story of Starwars is about Obi-Wan.....and thats the way it is.
  9. Philip023 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2002
    star 3
    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE: true, in battle losses are a necessary consequence. Nevertheless, I think that the Jedi's glaring weakness is their "blindness" to the threat against them.

    Perhaps George has planned it this way, which of course he has. But that goes against what we knew before the PT that the jedi seemed to be all knowing or at least had knowledge that something was coming down the pike that was evil.

    In AOTC the Jedi seemed inept, hesitant, and woefully weak. Particularly when their main adversary is in the same room with them.

    Question: When Obi and Qui-Gon land on Tattoine for the first time, they probably sensed Anakin. Perhaps Darth Maul approaching. If they sensed them, how come they cannot sense Palpatine? Incongruity.

    Finally, to the people hoping for a light-hearted, perhaps "hopeful" ending, the only question i have is: WHY?!

    Episode 3 should end with no hope at all. If the OT and PT are to stand alone on their own merits, why would you end EP3 on an upbeat tone when we won't know until EP4 what the new hope is?

    Certainly we will see the beginnings or formation of the "Rebellion" that started from the "Seperatists". But beyond that, I don't think we should know anything else.

    My ideal movie night would be watch EP3 and see an ending that encapsulates the tragedy befalling the "good guys" but that also shows that the will of the people that are left will not be destroyed. No hint should be given of the importance of Luke or Leia.

    Let that all transpire in EP4,5, and 6 - the way Lucas intended.

    A bleak ending is the only way it should go to maintain consistency because as one other poster said, this ISN'T the LAST SW movie: EP6 IS.

  10. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Agreed about the ending, Phillip. This film should be the low point of the series (in mood, though possibly in terms of writing as well. ;) )
  11. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Ahem...you know Luke & Leia will be born in this one, right? You can pretend that you have never seen the other films as much as you want, but I sure know the significance of the Skywalker twins. Do you really think George should pretend that they aren't a hope for the future...? Why even have them in the movie at all, then? ?[face_plain]
  12. A_New_Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2003
    "I must say that I agree with him that Lucas is indeed need of some help & a fresh set of eyes."

    I've thought like this since 1999. I think what everyone seems to be looking for from Lucas would come back if he had that help and a fresh set of eyes.

    Only thing is would he ever accept such a person, thats the question.
  13. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    So, does anyone know if Lucas has had a writing partner on Episode III?
  14. princess_aislinn Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2002
    George knows a good story.

    Unfortunately, he doesn't know good dialogue. He relies on the old standbyes that make a die-hard fan laugh ("I have a bad feeling about this!"), but does nothing for potential fans. If he appeals to not only, you know, us, then I think we'll be better served with something completely original and fresh, along with literate.
  15. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    The big thing that I think GL needs to do to make EpIII a good movie is to include more tension in the story. That's what I think Ep's 1 and 2 lacked for the most part. Perhaps this was intentional, but I'd like to see a lot more tension in Ep3.
  16. QUEEN_LEIA Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2003
    star 5
    What does George Lucas need to do to make a good movie?


    Three thing he needs to do to ensure quality to his final masterpiece.


    1.Don't direct Epi3.

    Luca$ is very,very good at making thing go boom and playing with his toys I mean nothing can surpass IlM but he couldn't direct if his life depends on it.He should leave the directing to his superior (Jackson, Spielburg, Lee, Kasdan and the Matrix brothers) and concentrate on selling action figures to four year olds.

    2.Don't write dialogue ever again.

    Luca$ need to hire a compotent screenwriter (not Hales,we seen his handy work)to write Epi3. Dialogue like "Around the survivor a perimeter create" or "He couldn't assainate anyone, it not in his character" will not be acceptable for the last film ever.

    3. Replace HAydeN immediately.

    This guy is garbage. All the actor had wooden dialogue but he could not turn water to wine like the rest of them.He has to be the second worst actor alive although he's not the first (I'll never forgive you for Gigli Affleck, NEVER)but if he keeps up this horrible pace who knows.It's not to late to hire Heath Ledger or Ryan Phillips.HAydeN is the king of cheese.
  17. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Methinks QUEEN_LEIA=yodaschum's sock.

    What does Lucas need to do to make a good movie?

    Have the ultimate twist--Anakin doesn't become Vader after all. [face_mischief]
  18. MotElliott Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2002
    star 2
    1.Don't direct Epi3.

    I think that he's doing a fine job directing...just as good as the original Star Wars. Its hard to judge directing because it really doesn't come across to the audience, unless its done very poorly, as much as the importance of good dialouge and good acting.

    2.Don't write dialogue ever again.

    THAT'S the key!!!! So far I think the prequals have had fine stories. Very good stories actually. But STORIES. The very hackneyed and stale dialouge is what is making the prequals hard to watch. George has produced and concieved the stories of all the Star Wars movies, and he's brilliant at it, but I agree the dialogue does need a touch up or two.

    3. Replace HAydeN immediately.

    Hayden is JUST FINE. The reason people are under the illusion that there is bad acting is because the dialogue is not up to par with the originals, and there is nothing for them to work with.

    It's not to late to hire Heath Ledger

    You better be joking...

    Now for what I think George needs to do to live up to the originals...

    The prequals have been good (thats just in my opinion, and I can understand why some people would not like them at all), but definetely not great. There are strokes of genious, but in moderation compared to some of the faults. The first key is dialogue and character development. The dialogue doesn't have to be great, but it has to be beleiveable enough so that the story isn't drowned in a flash flood of melted chedder cheese. Another key is pacing. Too much happens too fast in the prequals and it doesn't take the time to truely develop the essential characters. Lastly, I think he needs to do something about the visuals. There is such a thing as too much special effects, and I think he should try building more sets and doing more location shooting, much like how Jackson does it for LOTR.

    That is all...








    Oh, and another thing....PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NO MORE YODA WITH A LIGHTSABRE!!!!!!!!!!!!

  19. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    It's not to late to hire Heath Ledger or Ryan Phillips.

    To do what, mop the floors?



    / huge Hayden-as-Anakin fan


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  20. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
  21. lilyodaboy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2003
    I think he needs to kill Jar Jar. I thought we had seen the last of him in TPM
  22. oLiquidRusho Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 2
    NOTE: This is not aimed at the people who like or reasonably dislike these or any movies that have been produced.

    I probably will get bashed for this, but Star Wars "Fanatics" (whom to me go along the lines of an obsessed stalker) sicken me. They truly do. To be honest, I give Lucas credit. Yes there's an obligation to finish Episode III. But you know what, if it were me (and I agree that this wouldn't have been professional at all) I woulda just dropped production on Episode III, altogether, and see their reaction. Its the ultimate slap in the face to the ignorant comments that some make. While I have ALWAYS been in favor of constructive criticism, I'm tired tired and TIRED of hearing the harsh negativity on George Lucas, just because your "boo hoo child hood fantasy" is ruined. Grow up. Please JUST FOR ONCE grow up. First of all, some of you just sit on your chair and INSULT the actors like Hayden, Natalie, and others. Yet you're ON YOUR OWN CHAIR sittin lazy and eating your greasy potato chips as you do it. AND damnit wash your hands! Anyway, as I recall, before Episode 1 came out, Lucas was thinking about getting a different director for Episodes II and III. I remember that being a part of an article. But after the backlash of Episode 1, without mentioning that useless crybaby "he ruined my childhood cuz OF COURSE there's nothing else left in my life" bashing, he decided to take on II & III. Whose fault is it? Don't be surprised that he decided this because the so called fans ripped (not the ones who made an honest and professional criticism, they're cool) on Lucas . Calling him imcompetent, out of touch, rapist of childhood, probably made him want to do it. I mean think about it. Think that you're a director of a BIG BIG FILM. And people not only trash the film, but a LARGE majority trash you as a person. TRASH you, whom gives out to charity, raises children as a single parent, and takes money out from your finances to make them a movie, not to mention 10 more years of the SAME series of movies. Wouldn't that want to make you go out and prove yourself again? Wouldn't that make you say YOU KNOW WHAT, I want to show them I still got it. Just like some of you HAVE TO INSULT ON THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER just so you can say your opinion and hammer it on the poor individuals who DO actually come here for a decent discussion. Maybe he took some criticism to heart and thought "maybe my movies are bad." And wanted to do it again to prove to people or maybe himself he's got it still. And some of you JUST DON'T understand acting. Really don't. Its one thing to say "yeah Hayden's done a bad performance" ok fine. But totally rip him to shreds? I'm sorry but did I miss the scene where he cussed you out somewhere? Cuz I sure didn't see it. So why insult who he is? You know what, the only cancer of these movies is the ones who've surgically attached themselves to the old movies.

    Anyway, I'm done ranting. Now unto a real discussion. I've read a few arguments that Star Wars is not as popular as it used to be. Truth? I don't know. I didn't grow up with the movies. I started watching the originals late, like in '99, right before Phantom Menace. I think Star Wars was very popular. I used to see almost every kid have the lunch box when I was that young. So I guess yeah. Star Wars is not exactly like the phenomenon it used to be. Then again, when it comes to movies, what is? To be honest the most phenomenon movies have is right before they come out during promotional times. Look at Matrix Reloaded. All the attention was there. Then the movie was released. What happened? Not much of a peep anymore. Just like Star Wars. BIG BIG NEWS, then no peep. Point is, THERE's too many big time movies these days. In the prequels times, what other groundbreaking (or real popular pop culture) movies in the same year have come out?
    1999 - The Matrix
    SW Episode I: The Phantom Menace
    The Sixth Sense
    Toy Story 2
    Star Wars was the talk of the first half of the year (ini
  23. Daughter_of_Yubyub Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    You can't help but believe the problem is the director when you've watched all the actors give superior performances in other movies. Good actors don't just do badly. It's a directing problem.

    Secondly, GL himself has said that he's a visual storyteller. I think it would improve things if he were to focus on that aspect, which he is really good at, and find a good verbal storyteller to write the dialogue.

    YubYub and TG- Protecting fangirls from hormonally gifted fanboys since 2002
  24. oLiquidRusho Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 2
    Daughter of Yub yub, see, now thats what I'm talking about. Its good to see that people realize that actors like natalie and hayden were good outside the star wars flicks. Even though I defended Lucas, I was merely defending him from the harsh insults he receives from the so-called fans. Personally, I'm very cool with constructive criticism, mainly because if I knew Lucas, I'd tell him the issues too. And I agree with you, he is a visual director. In fact SW stories have always been told visually, always have been. In a sense, you can say its a showcase of special fx through a story. People like to compare Lord Of the Rings to Star Wars lately, and I think that's just a no-go. All the Star Wars movies (yes even ESB) do not even touch the heart and soul of LOTR, not because they're bad at it (although in some cases there are cringe moments), but it was never aimed at that.

    So I don't come off as a complete drone, I admit there are faults in Lucas' direction. Attack Of The Clones has had the biggest collection of marquee actors of ANY SW flick. Period. If anyone has seen Life as a House (I kinda liked it, though it got too sappy towards the end) Hayden was quite good in it. To be honest, he was pretty damn mother good. His nomination for a golden globe as best supporting actor proves it. But here, Lucas kinda botched it. And what I think is the problem is NOT necessarily his directorial skills but his priority. If anyone has seen American Graffiti, they know that Lucas can indeed direct actors. But with Star Wars, his priorities are so many things, and I think he's more worried about how the visual will go, to a fault for the actors. Someone said earlier that Ryan Phillipe shoulda been chosen, or rather it wasn't too late to get him. PLEASE! Did you see Cruel Intentions or I Know What You Did Last Summer?! There were plenty of poor Phillipe scenes (but he does have some skill). In fact, his acting style was similar to how Hayden acted in AOTC. I have a very strong feeling Phillipe would've been the same result, because, c'mon Lucas' priorites wasn't his actors.

    Hell, look at ANH. So much bad acting that its damn near laughable. I remember the first time I saw it, I was like "Man its amazing this has become such a big movie with this kinda acting". The only director that was able to turn water into wine was Irvin Kirshner. He was the ONLY one to make Hamill pretty good, and Fisher to be slightly interesting. Came ROTJ, man it was back to the bad acting (and that wasn't even Lucas!)

    I think the only thing people can hope for is that Lucas tells a damn good story next movie. The last two movies have proven, there can be botched acting, so you know what, ALL of you, don't watch for acting. UNLESS its just ATROCIOUS, then yeah, but try to disregard that. After all, it was no problem to disregard ANH, and ROTJ for their faults was it?
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