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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST What does Space Opera mean to you?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Ender_and_Bean, Dec 11, 2017.

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  1. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Star Wars, to me, has always been explained to me as a Space Opera from critics and my parents and teachers alike. That’s for good reason. This is one definition for Space Opera:

    I think we can all agree that Star Wars has always been part of this sub genre. The original trilogy kept its primary focus on revenge (initially) and later parental twists. Romance was the subplot. The prequels aimed for a romantic tragedy. And now comes word that this new trilogy will not make its primary protagonist and antagonist related and that some of the tension and drama between them will instead come from sexual attraction they have for each other, which one side may be more ashamed of than the other. This feels right in the wheelhouse of Space Opera. Just another aspect of it.

    By all accounts so far it’s handled and acted well. Not developing into anything overt but the chemistry is strong enough between the two leads that some who didn’t even consider this are secretly pulling for them to somehow work something out. That’s exactly the kind of dillema that has been at the heart of mythic love stories and operas and even Star Wars before. It’s that feeling that even though you know the villain doesn’t deserve to be happy for all the things they’ve done you still secretly want them to find it. You wanted that for Vader. It sounds like through some strong acting many may want it for the horrible Kylo Ren. However, your mind won’t be able to grasp how these two differences will ever be able to make anything positive work. That was also at the heart of Vader and Luke in its own way. You wanted them to work together. Heck, some of us even wanted Luke to rule the galaxy as father and Son as disasterous as that would have been but that’s the power of the space opera. It taps into our base instincts and puts us in the shoes of heroes and villains so well that we can relate to those conflicts and doubts and confusion over how it could possibly work out based on each side being so clearly on the other side of the line. Star Wars has always been more about feeling than about big science fiction concepts or complex plot threads. It’s always been a space opera tapping into our most primitive instincts and guilty pleasures dressed up beautifully with incredible visuals and music and loaded with the best tropes from westerns, samurai films, fantasy and cliffhanger serials all blended together to form something more powerful than the sum of its parts.

    Rian Johson’s The Last Jedi is playing in this same sandbox with the same tools. He’s just telling another type of old tale in the space opera subgenre more centred on an opposites attract Force-users on opposite ends of a war spine. These concepts are still classic and mythic. They’ve just been tarred and feathered as an inferior aspect of the space opera subgenre for a few reasons unique to this era.

    Part of it seems to be concern over having something loved compared to the inferior works of lesser sagas involving lesser actors who also heavily feature romance. Part of it is a perspective that a toxic relationship involving one horrible person and another on screen should be off limits conceptually. Some of it is a concern that a female hero as popular and influential as Rey is a serious intersectional third wave feminist blow if she even considers having a relationship with a man of any kind in this saga rather than simply exist to fight and nothing more. Some of those same people may even be outraged at the very concept of Rey being even remotely tempted by the abusive and horrific Kylo Ren because of the potentially negative message that could send. I have to think that some in the 1980s were similarly outraged at the thought that a dictator guilty of mass genocide and torture could be made to seem so sympathetic and redeemed through the murder of his boss and a confession of regret. This is Star Wars though. These are the complexities that confuse and move and conflict us. The sequel trilogy has shifted family to the subplot and romantic tension between the leads to the forefront. It’s different for all of us but that doesn’t mean it won’t be interesting if handled and acted well.

    Do you agree? Disagree?
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’m less concerned about “messages” as I am about what I personally want to see on screen. I am far, far beyond taking in on-screen story depictions as either “positive messages” or “negative messages” regarding how they influence me at all (they don’t), but I still know what type of relationships and interactions I am interested in seeing on screen, and which I am not.

    In 1983 I was more than happy to see a payoff in Luke’s idealism regarding his father’s character. If ROTJ were in theaters now, I have little doubt that I would think...really? Does anyone think that could actually happen even in a fantasy universe?...as it obviously did for some at the time.

    I don’t watch movies to become confused and moved and conflicted by complexities, I watch it to relax and watch the underdog bad guys beat the good guys with Star Destroyers and planet killers.

    I enjoy fun interactions between characters, but I don’t like a lot of drama, especially relationship drama in stories just for the sake of relationship drama. (When I wrote fan fiction many years ago, I had a reader suggest once that I introduce a love triangle to “create some tension.” My reaction was, why would I want to force tension into a happy relationship in my story?)

    Hopefully that makes sense as to where I personally stand regarding “space operas.”
     
    Master_Lok and Ender_and_Bean like this.
  3. Avilos

    Avilos Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2002
    The Barber of Seville performed on the International Space Station would be epic. Or maybe Pagliacci on a Moonbase.
     
  4. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Thank you for sharing that. I was hoping to learn more of your thoughts on this. I can appreciate the concern that some have over messages but I think this saga will end differently and that Rey will not succumb to his acts of kindness the rest of the way and believe she will do as Jessica Jones did to Killgrave in the end and fool him into thinking she might be trusting him so that she can ultimately end his reign of terror. What’s more feminist and heroic than a woman intelligently sensing that her opponent wants her and realizing that this weakness in the opponent can be utilized fool him and ultimately defeat him and save the lives of millions of people from genocide in the process? I just don’t see him becoming redeemed in the end. I think he’ll try and largely do so to try and sway her, potentially going as far as to first catch and later release her friends to show her he’s not the monster she thinks. I actually like the idea of him becoming a terrific villain with this one big weakness: Her.

    I personally still feel like this Force bond will end up being a shared pathway they have to each other via their Force grandparents in the Force afterlife. And, yes, that means that I still think a Kenobi grandfather tie-in may be coming as a final twist in IX for hard core fans after realizing that Kylo Ren lied to her or that the junkers simply found her in a wreck of a ship owned by Kenobi’s child and that she may have been found then by the junkers. I mention that mostly because I think if it happens it will add an extra layer to their overall dynamic. Especially with Finn trying to get her to notice him while she saves armies.

    All of this feels like space opera to me though and I hope people give it a chance because if it’s executed well it could be a new experience for us within this subgenre and Star Wars itself. The family ties will still be part of the saga but this choice to not make the ST another exploration primarily on family dynamics I think could be fresh to many of us in the end. Particularly those of us who have never had an interest in the lesser works that cynics will try to point to as a way to diminish the story’s potential (Twilight, Hunger Games, etc). The hope is that this saga will exceed those in narrative and acting in ways the Original Trilogy did any other melodramas dealing with unknown parents.
     
  5. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    What I really want to know: is the diva from the Fifth Element still performing somewhere? She would probably be a perfect fit for entertainment on Canto Blight.

    Seriously though, I love to watch genre movies to escape the real world. I agree 100% with anakinfansince1983 ‘s post. Melodrama for the sake of it is not worth exploring.
     
  6. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    This is a quote from George Lucas:


    George Lucas has gone on the record to describe it as a sort of combination of genres - including science-fiction, versus some of the "harder" science-fiction that he grew up with.

    From an interview included as part of the introduction of the Star Wars: A New Hope novelization:

    "As a kid, I read a lot of science fiction. But instead of reading technical, hard-science writers like Isaac Asimov, I was interested in Harry Harrison and a fantastic, surreal approach to the genre. I grew up on it. Star Wars is a sort of compilation of this stuff, but it's never been put in one story before, never put down on film. There is a lot taken from Westerns, mythology, and samurai movies. It's all the things that are great put together. It's not like one kind of ice cream but rather a very big sundae."
    However, in the annotated screenplays, he acknowledges that what he has created was never really "science fiction", per se.

    I knew from the beginning that I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale. I really thought I needed to establish from the start that this was a completely made up world so that I could do anything.

    The sections in bold aren’t relegated exclusively to family stories and only those.
     
  7. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    We really don't need another Rey/Kylo thread in disguise. Locking.
     
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