What does TPM even have to do with the rest of the PT?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by B4DaDrkX, Sep 9, 2002.

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  1. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I think we will see Anakin fly a starfighter in EpIII.
  2. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    I predict he'll fly in between 7 and 19 minutes into the movie, assisting Obi-Wan in a nasty situation.

    ;)
  3. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Me too! He will save Obi-Wan in some manner and that will be the moment Obi remembers when he says "He was the best starpilot in the galaxy!"
  4. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
  5. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Don´t even think it, Plo!

    :_|
  6. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
  7. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I know what you mean, but this most likely will happen, I think, because:
    TPM parallells ANH
    AOTC parallells TESB
    EpIII will parallell ROTJ

    In ROTJ, Luke shows us his complete Jedi skills by saving all his friends on Tatooine. Something similar should happen in EpIII. We´ll just have to wait and see if it happens in space....
  8. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    + The glaring fact that all OT battles have been copied so far, except a pure spacebattle like in ANH. ;)
  9. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    :)

    I think EpIII will have that pure space battle.
    Imagine that big, fat Republic clone fleet wiping out the separatists in a matter of minutes! [face_devil]
    Then imagine Anakin clearing the field in his Jedi starfighter, flanked by two clonepilots, like Vader in ANH.... *goosebumps* :D
  10. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    As a stand alone movie, TPM would never survive. However, it was perfect as the first part in a 6 part story. All TPM was designed to do was introduce the characters and set the stage for the rest of the saga. It wasn't designed to do anymore or anyless.
  11. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    So, we were supposed to walk away empty and unentertained? Okay. It all makes sense now! :p
  12. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    So, we were supposed to walk away empty and unentertained? Okay. It all makes sense now!

    [face_laugh]

    That's not quite what I had in mind.

    :p
  13. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    When you watch the episodes in order, you're supposed to think:

    "This can only get better!"

    8-}
  14. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    All TPM was designed to do was introduce the characters and set the stage for the rest of the saga.

    And it failed miserably:

    Qui-Gon Jinn, the main character is killed.
    Obi-Wan Kenobi's character is virtually non-existent, doesn't correspond with the OT character and makes many lines from the OT not work.
    Darth Maul, a fantastic villain, is killed and given way too little screentime.
    Padmé Amidala is a Queen in this episode, yet in the next she has turned Senator, which is disruptive.
    Anakin Skywalker, whom we knew as the menacing Darth Vader is introduced as a tiny little kid, which is totally unnecessary as the character is changed *completely* in the next episode.
    Jabba the Hutt, once a menacing gangster monster now spits animals on a gong.
    See Threepio made by Anakin? Bahbahbahbahbah
    and more bah. Outrageously bad choice.

    The only good set-up is Palpatine. Barely.
  15. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    But it's not only about characters...

    I think TPM did a good job at introducing the SW institutions and politics.
  16. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    Hmmm...I'm bored today, so I'm going to make some analogies to other myths to explain why TPM is the way it is.

    Almost every myth has a backstory which begins the story. This is especially true in stories that contain a complete character or story arc.

    Real easy example: The Bible. What does the story of Adam and Eve and even Noah have to do with the plight of the Hebrews starting with Abraham. Does it directly connect in anyway? In one important way it does, the existence of God. But other than that, they take place separate from the continuity we see in the rest of Genesis and proceeding into the history of the Jews.

    Again, with the New Testament. Any direct connection to the characters in the Old Testament? Well, we do get a special guest appearance by Moses and Elijah, but that's about it. We also have the child Jesus being born, a prophecy, and some gifted abilities in the temple at 12 years old. And then it skips foward about 20 years. No story at all. And we meet Him as an adult.

    Arthurian legend contains the same kind of backstory to set up what happens in Camelot when Arthur becomes king.

    I could even reference Superman. There's a whole lot of backstory there. Just by looking at the first movie, you see a nice section of the film devoted to his childhood and adolescense.

    So, the next argument would be, well, do these types of events need their own movie? Well, they kind of do, the way George had structured the story in the OT. We don't see any huge leaps in time within the films. Weeks or months may pass, but never years. So we can't just have a little intro, and jump foward to "10 years later" and such.

    Lucas almost follows to a T the cosmogenic cycle of the hero in Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces. It proceeds as follows: Childhood of the Human Hero, the Hero as Warrior, the Hero as Lover, The Hero as Emperor and as Tyrant, The Hero as World Redeemer, the Hero as Saint, and departure of the Hero. In every story the hero can take on any one of these roles, but George Lucas employs all of them in the scope of this story.

    So, yes TPM has a lot to do with the rest of the story. It will probably play even greater importance when Episode III is completed, and all the pieces fall into place. Is it the most entertaining Star Wars movie? No. But each time I watch it, I grow more appreciative of it, especially in the way it effects my perceptions of the Original Trilogy. And so the myth continues to grow and change through time.
  17. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    Qui-Gon Jinn, the main character is killed.

    There was no need for QGJ to stay alive. His importance was discovering Anakin in TPM. He will be equally important being dead and coming back in Episode III.

    Obi-Wan Kenobi's character is virtually non-existent, doesn't correspond with the OT character and makes many lines from the OT not work.

    He's still a padawan in TPM. It's not time for him to be a main character. That's why he gets more screen time in AOTC and probably even more in Episode III. What lines does Obi-Wan not make work. Yoda trains ALL padawans until they're in their teens. At that point, they're assigned a Master. Obi-Wan was probably reckless as a teenager.

    Darth Maul, a fantastic villain, is killed and given way too little screentime.

    He was there to kill QGJ and to be killed by Obi-Wan. This was used to show how mature Obi-Wan is becoming and how good he is as a Jedi.

    Padmé Amidala is a Queen in this episode, yet in the next she has turned Senator, which is disruptive.

    I agree this is a bit backwards but she has to stay involved in politics.

    Anakin Skywalker, whom we knew as the menacing Darth Vader is introduced as a tiny little kid, which is totally unnecessary as the character is changed *completely* in the next episode.

    That was used to show the complete fall of a tragic hero. He starts as an innocent kid with hints of evil and becomes the most ruthless villian in the galaxy. The whole saga of star wars deals with his rise, fall and redemption.

    Jabba the Hutt, once a menacing gangster monster now spits animals on a gong.

    I think that was just done for kicks.

    See Threepio made by Anakin?

    I think that was great. It parallels nicely with Luke working on his father's creation in ANH. It also adds continuity to the saga. The one constant in the entire series are the two lovable droids.

    The only good set-up is Palpatine. Barely.

    I'm not sure how they could have done that any better. To me it was set up nicely.
  18. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    When you watch the episodes in order, you're supposed to think:


    "This can only get better!"


    Well... when I watch TPM I end up thinking "This had BETTER get better!" ;)
  19. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
  20. Delance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2002
    star 3
    We are talking about a story of a chain of events that are set into motion starting in TPM. ESB is simply a result of the events of TPM, AOTC, and Episode III. Deal with it.

    WHAT?

    ESB was written 20 years BEFORE TPM. It is the other way around.

    Anakin having twins, being trained by Obi-Wan, the clone wars, all this happens because of the OT.
  21. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    That won't matter when it's all finished. If it's done right, TPM will be the logical beginning and ROTJ will be the logical ending. It won't matter which trilogy was made first.
  22. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    It probably still will to a lot of us that saw the movies in their true original chronological order.


    [Call me a purist, but I cannot accept TPM as the "beginning" of the SW series.]
  23. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I'm old enough to remember the pre-special edition OT movies being released in the theaters the first time. I grew up with the OT. It will always have a special place in my heart. I will always believe that Leia is more attractive than Padme. With all that being said, it will be kinda strange to watch the movies in the 4, 5, 6, then 1, 2, 3, order. That just doesn't make any sense to me. The movies have chapter numbers for a reason. There is no way the PT will be treated with the same respect as the OT right now. We've had the complete OT since 1983. It will take time for the PT to catch on. I'm willing to bet there were many naysayers when the OT was being made.
  24. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    Same here. I first saw Star Wars in 77' when I was 5. Personally, I look ALL of the movies as SEQUELS to "ANH"...the movie without which there would be no "saga" anyway. Lucas can call TPM the beginning, but I for one, when they are all finally released on video, will defintely be inclined to skip that "prologue".

    I thought AOTC was pretty good (still not as good as the OT but...) in my mind the "series" could start there and we'd be none the worse for it. Just my .02.
  25. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    dito here.

    I think of the PT as a nice but light warming up for the real adventure to come.
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