What dont you like about the new TCG

Everyone (even myself) likes the original CCG better then the new TCG from Wizards of the Cost. I was just wondering what people liked better about the old one. Or what you do not like about the new one.

Things that I do not like about the new TCG:
1) There are not weapon or device cards. You would think that that would be a given. Like a Jedi Lightsaber card which can only be played on a Jedi and adds +2 power. And of course have special ones like Anikens Lightsaber. Devices would also be easy to add. They could give the unit a new special ability or increases the one that they have.
2) There are no permanent mission/battle type cards. In every card game I have ever played there has been a permanent card like the mission/battle cards in the new TCG.
3) There is to much that i left to chance. I don?t like how you roll the dice all the time. The old CCG had much more strategy and had less to do with chance.

Let me know what you guys think.

John

 

How do I loathe thee? Let me count the ways:

1) The three arena factor means the game has little room to expand.

2) The game uses dice.

3) The skill is taken out of the hands of the player and put into random factors instead.

4) The game has no variety. It's all battle battle battle.

 

I pretty much agree with those two lists. 'Cept I don't "loathe" the new game, I just don't like it as much as the original CCG.


I'll add:

*) Mission and Battle cards are horizontally oriented. Kinda gives it away to your opponent when you pull a card out of your hand and turn it sideways to read it!


*) Slow card drawing. I'd rather "even up" than "draw one" per turn.

 

<<Everyone (even myself) likes the original CCG better then the new TCG from Wizards of the Cost.>>

Not everyone, iwjev.

I don't mind seeing a game start simply and build from there. And as a fan of turn-based strategy games, I accept the level of random chance (and I recognize that special abilities and battle cards can be used to overcome that randomness). Nor do I dislike the use of the <gasp!> dreaded dice.

I rather like the game.

 

Everyone (even myself) likes the original CCG better then the new TCG from Wizards of the Coast.


Really? Then why have I stopped playing the CCG completely and started playing the new game? I actually like this new game better then the TCG just because some non-Star Wars fans I know are playing it because it is a good card game as opposed to trying the CCG a few times and not likeing it. I think that as a card game the TCG is a better then the CCG.

 

Bubba_the_Genius and Kenix Kil I agree that there are some people that like the new TCG better the the CCG but that is the point of this. I just dont want to know that you like the one better I want to know why. What do you like or dislike about the new game? What (if anything) do you think it is missing? What do you wish was taken out of the game? Do you play by the rules (and if so which one, the rule book or the game matt) or have you made up some of your own rules? If you have made up your own or new rules what are they? That is the stuff I want to know not just "I like CCG better" or "I like TCG better".

John

 

Another think I do not like about the new TCG is the limitednumber of cards. I know this is the first but there are only 180 different cards. you would think that they would put more cards in the fist set. Also, in a way there are not even 180 cards because there are multipal of some of the cards (like aniken there are 4 of them).

What does everyone else think about that part of the game?

John

 

Yes there are multiple versions of some cards but they are still different cards. Seeing as you can stack different versions you can use every version of a character in a deck and always be able to put it into play for some benefit.

 

Darksbane you are right you can stack different versions so you can use every version of a character in a deck. However you only get the anilties of the top card. the only thing stacking gives you is a plus 10 to speed and a plus 1 to power and health.

Another thing i dont like about the game is building. There is a variable 1-6 build points per turn (roll one die) and those do NOT carry over. Also the light side rolls the build dice so the dark side player is limited to the roll of the light side.

1 thing I would change is letting each player roll there own build dice.

 

"Darksbane you are right you can stack different versions so you can use every version of a character in a deck. However you only get the anilties of the top card. the only thing stacking gives you is a plus 10 to speed and a plus 1 to power and health. "


Don't forget that you can also switch between versions during the build step. Although with the current pool of cards this is not used much as more specalized cards are introduced it could become a very large aspect of the game.

"Another thing i dont like about the game is building. There is a variable 1-6 build points per turn (roll one die) and those do NOT carry over. Also the light side rolls the build dice so the dark side player is limited to the roll of the light side.

1 thing I would change is letting each player roll there own build dice. "

How is the darkside limited? Each player gets the same number of build points. If they are limited both sides are equally limited. If each player folled their own dice for build this game would almost totally be determined by who rolled better for build points. I think that most people (especally those who have a problem with the randomness) would hate this situation.

 

I htink iwjev hit on an important point in regards to SWTCG's lack of permanent "verb" cards. In every good CCG I can think of, there's some sort of permanent verb cards. I find such cards to be important as they provide a means of getting a strategy off the ground. With only noun cards staying around, it leads to the question of why you should bother with anything less than the most powerful units? If you could have verb cards that stayed around instead of having their effect and going away, it would become possible to develop more theme oriented decks, rather than just using power characters.

For example, in SWCCG before S-foils, generic X-wings never saw any play. After S-foils, they became the number one space presence in the game. And although i know very little of Magic, I remember watching some people play with decks that used permanents (I think that's what theyre called) to provide boosts to a particular class of creatures, and then using a bunch of them. These creatures were normally very weak, and consequently were cheap to play. But the permanent verb cards boosted them up to a worthwhile level, making them just as viable as more expensive, self-contained power cards. Equipment cards are also important for such strategies to be developed. In the previous X-wing example, the arrival of X-wing Laser Cannons also gave a significant gameplay boost to generic X-wings.

You see this sort of thing with equipment and permanent verb cards in LotR too. For example, the Frodo & Sam fellowship, that uses 4 A Promise and some Hobbit Swords, along with O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! and Rosie Cotton (a verb-like card, even though strictly speaking allies are nouns) to make Frodo strength 11 and Sam strength 10 when they are usually 4 and 3, respectively. Even Jedi Knights (which many were dissatisfied with, though I was not one of them), though all your noun cards went away in a turn or two, had Events that stayed out. The best example I can think of is You Should Not Have Come Back, which made all opponents' weapon destinies -1 while Vader was out. The cards in play are of a similarly transitory nature in SWTCG, and though this is not as strictly enforced by the rules as in JK, the fact is that for a card to be used, it has to be open to attack, which means if it provides a powerful effect but isn't very powerful on its own, it won't be around long. Permanent verb cards offer more security since they can't be eliminated by conventional means. You can't attack your opponent's conditions/effects/permanents/events, you need particular cards to be able to deal with them. Which means that, if you use them, you don't have to worry as much about them getting eliminated. That lets you build a stable long-term strategy, even if particular characters get killed.

 

Darksbane when I say that the dark side is limited to the light side I mean that they have to live with what ever the light side rolls. True they get the same number of build point (unless one of them has a unit in all three arenas). But the light side will always determined what the build point count is.

If I was going to do anything to this game I would:
1) add permanent modifier cards
2) add weapon/device cards
3) add system cards which is used for building by giving you force
4) kill the dice
5) put more then 180 cards in a single card set. This is one thing that I didn?t like about CCG (even in most of the CCG card sets there was only 180 cards).

I do like the arenas because it keeps fighting on a level playing ground. I also like the build area and the ability to retreat.

UPDATE:
In a way I was wrong when I said that there are only 180 cards and actually less because of the special cards that are in there more then one time. The reason I am wrong is because there are also neutral cards, which can be used by both sides. In CCG they did have some cards that was in both the light and dark side therefor that card took up two cards.

John

 

Darksbane when I say that the dark side is limited to the light side I mean that they have to live with what ever the light side rolls. True they get the same number of build point (unless one of them has a unit in all three arenas). But the light side will always determined what the build point count is.

I don't play the new TCG--but I recognize this game mechanic. In Lord of the Rings, the Free Peoples player determines how much "twilight" the Shadow player gets by what they deploy. If the FP player wants to play a Gandalf, Arwen, and Aragorn in one turn, that puts a lot of twilight into the pool for the Shadow player to take advantage of--and most times they do.

Unfortunately the mechanic is sounds pretty watered down in the TCG with the random die roll and the fact that it can only get to 6 as the highest. Still, this mechanic has proved to be extremely balanced and very popular. It's really ingenuis and makes a lot of sense.

 

And there are ways to raise your build points. There are cards that let you do it suck as if you have won space and have four ships there, there is a mission card that lets you get 4 build points when you discard a unit from an arena. That increases it to at least a max of 10 with possibly more if you want to lose two of your units there.

 

I think most of the complaints listed here will be remedied with future releases of more cards. WotC has promised new game mechanics in future sets, so I would look for some of the things you have mentioned like devices, weapons, etc.

As for dice rolling, I have found that if you employ good strategy and protect your big boys by keeping back enough force to use evade or battle/mission cards, the "luck" factor evens out over the game.

 

"Darksbane when I say that the dark side is limited to the light side I mean that they have to live with what ever the light side rolls. True they get the same number of build point (unless one of them has a unit in all three arenas). But the light side will always determined what the build point count is. "

I guess I see what you are saying but I don't really see how it is limiting to one particular side if both get the same number of build points.

"If I was going to do anything to this game I would:
1) add permanent modifier cards "

Aggreed, Effects/Enchantments are needed

"2) add weapon/device cards "

Again I agree but I would hope they would do something besides just give extra dice to roll


"3) add system cards which is used for building by giving you force "

If done correctly this would be nice


"4) kill the dice "

I like the dice


"5) put more then 180 cards in a single card set. This is one thing that I didn?t like about CCG (even in most of the CCG card sets there was only 180 cards). "

Yep I agree here too

 

Darksbane when you break it down it looks like we feel about the same when it comes to the new TCG (I just like the CCG better). I guess my only problem is that I am the only one (that I know of) in my area that plays TCG or CCG.

Sucks to be me.

John

 

"Darksbane when you break it down it looks like we feel about the same when it comes to the new TCG (I just like the CCG better)."

I actually don't have a favorate of the two. They are both really fun for me and I like and dislike things about both games. The funny thing is is that if I could take about half of the TCG and half of the CCG with a pinch of Jedi Knights thrown in there I would have the Perfect Star Wars card game IMO.

"I guess my only problem is that I am the only one (that I know of) in my area that plays TCG or CCG.

Sucks to be me. "

HA, join the club. I haven't been able to get together a CCG tourniment in my area (about 2 minutes away from a 20K strong College) since Special Edition. Even though about 10 people I know buy the cards, every time I tried to get them to play they would say something like "Nah, I don't really play anymore", talk about frustrating. I have hopes for the TCG though as I know 3-4 people trying it out right now, I am hoping to start demoing the game at my local card shop soon to try to drum up intrest.

 

Here's a good analogy for the games:

SW:CCG is like chess. SW:TCG is like chess where you throw rocks at your opponent's chess pieces and see who can knock each other's pieces over first.

 

That is funny Bib Fortuna, Twi'lek but I understand what you are saying. It does seem like the only thing you can do in TCG is fight. You would think that that would get old fast. True there might be different strategies about how you approach the fight but it is still just a fight.

John

 

I think all trading card games or turn-based strategy games are chess-like.

The new Star Wars TCG by Wizards of the Coast is no exception.

Some of the features which make the new game fun and unique:

1) Players essentially take their turn at the same time, with the speed of their 'chess pieces' determining who goes when.

2) Rolling dice to resolve conflict. This is such a ton of fun. A geniune visceral thrill when that echoes the adventure-aspect of the movies.

3) The stacking means a character can gain experience, or utilize different aspects of its background to best work in a situation. It's like a chess piece that gains experience and can reflect on what it has learned and use different strategies accordingly. Sort of like a chess piece that is also an RPG character that gains levels and experience.

The new Star Wars TCGame is a lot more fun than just what I could list here. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, so to speak.

 

I posted this in that poll just before it got locked, but I think I made some valid points and it seems relevant to this discussion so I'll post it again here.

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I think The2ndQuest hit the nail on the head about the upcoming Episode IV expansion. If they aren't able to successfully integrate new mechanics into the game like blowing up the Death Star or things like that, the game will probably become stagnant and tired. Even if things do get better later on, it would be too little too late if they don't get it right the first time. Look at Young Jedi. When it first came out me and my friends thought it was the greatest thing ever. But after a while of playing with the MoDM cards, we were getting a little tired of it. The lack of anything to do besides battle and the small size of the card pool - two problems shared by SWTCG - made the fun wear off after a while, especially after the Episode 1 hype had passed. Decipher dropped the ball on the Jedi Council set, not adding anything new to the game but new numbers. It renewed our interest (or rather, plateaued our decline of interest) for about a week, then we realized you still couldn't do anything but battle. The later expansions, especially Duel of the Fates and Boonta Eve Podrace, added a lot to the gameplay, but by then the game had been out for over a year and we weren't really interested anymore. If WotC doesn't add fun new stuff to the game to give players more options within the games first year, I don't see too many players sticking with it (on the flipside, if they do add fun new stuff and it's done really well, I may get into it myself). The first year of a game is very important for building a game's player base. There's always a market for something new, but if they can't hold a lot of player interest for the first year, support will dwindle, and it's always much harder to bring new players into a game with a small player base than one that's popular. If WotC can keep the player base they need through the first year, then the game will do well and be around for a long time. If they can't it probably won't die, but it will be a more minor CCG (like YJ was), and given how much they paid for the license, I doubt WotC will be satisfied with that. If that does happen, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see WotC drop it and make a new Star Wars game. Just look at the vault of dead CCGs on their website if you doubt that.

 

<<I think The2ndQuest hit the nail on the head about the upcoming Episode IV expansion. If they aren't able to successfully integrate new mechanics into the game like blowing up the Death Star or things like that, the game will probably become stagnant and tired.>>

I agree, disagree, and am not too worried about the possibility.

First, I agree that new mechanics - though not necessarily mechanics that make the game more like the CCG - will keep the game thriving; an utter lack of such new mechanics within the first year will probably hurt the game in the long run.

Second, I disagree specifically that something like a Death Star run is necessary for the expansion, "A New Hope". I quote Michael Kent:

"The name of the Star Wars TCG November ?02 release will be A New Hope, and the name of the Star Wars TCG March ?03 release will be Battle of Yavin."

"A New Hope" can be devoted to either Tatooine and leave room for blowing up the Death Star in the next expansion.

Finally, I'm not too worried in that Michael has assured us that quite a few tricks are up Wizards' collective sleeve, and we should be seeing those tricks very soon.