Discussion What don't you want to see in Episode 7?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by nld3, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. skyrimcat9416 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2013
    star 1
    I don't want to see big kiddie fests with no drama, non stop action or joking while the Jedi are fighting. Keep the seriousness of Star Wars.

    Don't go the Marvel route, and give the villain or Sith a big "twist" where he is just an "actor" like Iron Man 3.

    I want to see a new interesting chapter for the Saga. I don't want just be like "Oh, yeah I guess I kinda liked it," I want to LOVE IT.
    Last edited by skyrimcat9416, Jan 2, 2014
  2. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I don't want to see Denning's "religious intolerance is good" logic.
  3. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    While we're at it, I don't want to see a villain who just wants revenge for something either. I'll grant that the main villain of the PT and OT combined was a guy who wanted revenge for something, but that was only part of his motivation; he was avenging the Sith, but he wasn't necessarily avenging himself personally; if anything, Sidious was in it for power, not revenge. I'll also grant that with "chaos" and "revenge" taken off the plate, that doesn't leave a whole lot of conventional motivations for a villain. I'll even grant that there's nothing necessarily wrong with that motivation, any more than there is for a villain to want to just watch the world burn; it's just that Star Trek was crippled decades ago by that trope and it's never recovered. Wrath of Khan was too successful for its own good or that of the franchise, and it's led to a bizarre need to keep redoing it over and over; as a result, the last four Trek films have been about someone wanting revenge for something, all of them at least in part trying to recreate the franchise's most beloved entry and all of them failing, and also strangling off other lines of creativity and storytelling while they were at it - and the last two of those were films Abrams directed personally. It's all contributed to me becoming bored by revenge as a motivation, and while Star Wars does that particularly well (Maul wanting revenge in TCW sure didn't hurt that show any in my eyes), I just don't want it to become the next done-to-death modern film trope, right up there with the overuse in modern film titles of the words "dark/darkness" or "rise/rising".
    TKT likes this.
  4. Lord Schtam Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Any character for the soul purpose of comical relief, a plot that conflicts the EU completely, the Stormtrooper effect, intense lightsabre fighting with Mark Hamill as Luke, black and white morale, Jedi or Sith apprentices who acts like spoiled brats and Jedi who survived the purge but remained hidden for no logical reason; at least not on a larger scale. Did I forget anything?
  5. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
  6. redxavier Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Probably alone on this one, but very few jedi and/or lightsabres. It was great when there was just one of them, it made Luke different and interesting. But if it's anything like Dark Horse's Legacy series, where literally every character carries a lightsabre, it becomes mundane and terribly boring.

    Give me space battles and pew pew battles in corridors with blasters.
    Iron_lord, TKT and darklordoftech like this.
  7. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    [IMG]
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  8. redxavier Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Ok, so Skywalker's girlfriend doesn't carry one. I bet she uses one at some point though right?
  9. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
  10. DEATHCONQUEROR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2011
    star 1
    -Darth Vader (but I wouldn't mind Anakin Skywalker in ghost form)
    -Palpatine Reborn
    -if there are no Sith, I think I'll finally leave StarWars behind. I wouldn't mind new characters and settings, but there's gotta be Sith.
    -Pacifist Mandalorians or any other Pacifistic species that's there to proselytize or stick their noses into peoples business (like in TCW) simply will not do.
  11. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I don't want to see lightsaber duel after lightsaber duel like ROTS.
  12. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Hey now, the ones we got in RotS were pretty damn good. [face_not_talking]
  13. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Agreed, and they made sense given that was the movie where the biggest confrontations of the saga (so far) took place. I'm sure all of the movies in the ST won't have that many.
  14. DEATHCONQUEROR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2011
    star 1
    Or if they do have several lightsaber fights......at least make 'em big & nasty. In other words, more lightsaber fights where one individual can end a fight fast by killing multiple lightsaber wielding opponents quickly in deadly fashion.......don't want anything drawn out long.
    Last edited by DEATHCONQUEROR, Jan 6, 2014
  15. niel6658 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2013
    star 1
    Another thing I really don't want to see is almost two full episodes without any large conflicts, worthy of the name STAR WARS. The PT was too much talk and too little adventure.

    I really want to dive into an adventure right from the start, like in the OT.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  16. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Right. The first half of ANH wasn't chalk full of talk at all. Outside of the first 5 minutes, what happens? Really not a whole lot until the firefight on the Death Star.
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  17. Number_5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 1
    I don't want to see:

    -Too many lightsabers. I want them to be rare and special. Luke only just recently started training new Jedi (if he even does this).

    -Jedi robes. Such a bad look.

    -Clones and battle droids. If we're gonna have a war, let's have some actual people in it. The armies of the PT were like when the TMNT cartoon only fought robot foot soldiers so they could use their weapons in a kids' show. It was like when Spider-Man TAS wasn't allowed to punch or kick anybody.

    -References. Don't repeat the past, don't try to make people say "oh, I know that!" or "oh, I remember that line from episode _!" every five seconds. Make NEW Star Wars.

    -The primary protagonist learning to become a Jedi. I'd rather have the protagonist learn he/she can never be a Jedi, and struggle to become a hero in other ways. The Jedi of the group can be the secondary main character or love interest.

    -Stupid Jedi rules. Also, stupid Jedi. This, of course, is a PT issue.

    -Sith. I'm sick of the word. They didn't need it in the OT, they don't need it here. Luke hasn't even heard it.

    -Prophecies.

    -A civil war.

    -EU

    -Another Sith I'm-gonna-take-over-the-GALAXY villain.

    -A Joker/Khan/Silva villain who is perfect and plans to get caught.

    -CGI everywhere. Costumes and sets, please.

    -Shiny stuff. Make it dirty again.

    I'm sure there's more, but that's all I got right now.
    Last edited by Number_5, Jan 8, 2014
  18. NileQT87 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 1
    I want Episode 7 to be a drama akin to The Empire Strikes Back.

    You'll notice that the OT is mostly a very intimate core cast of characters with character-driven and very personal plot. Also, the comedy in those films worked best when it was snarky wit (Han and Leia do it right), rather than anything meant to be 'kid-friendly'. Frankly, a lot of the humor in those films come from the more adult parts of the series (romance-tinged snark that dominates Han and Leia's dialog with each other right from the start, Lando's flirting, Han teasing Luke about his crush--oh, you could so get mileage out of that post-RotJ, etc...).

    I don't really want the action sequences having to get bigger and bigger and bigger just because you can make them big. The fighting in the OT might seem pretty limited by modern special effects standards, but it was far more effective because of its intimacy and meaningfulness. Spend more time with the emotions of those scenes than how pretty the lightsabers look flying around. Never lose focus on the characters and don't just put action scenes for the sake of action scenes. Each one has to have a meaning that is leading somewhere important.

    The most successful parts of RotJ, IMO, are Leia rescuing Han from Jabba and Luke redeeming his father. The personal bits are the ones that work best.

    Star Wars films should not be endless space battle wreckage or Orc-style Jedi army sequences. Let's all remember that much of ANH is walking around a desert and it taking about 30 minutes just to meet Han. ESB spends a lot of time with Luke doing flips with Yoda in a backpack and talking about philosophy, while the Falcon isn't so much fighting, but trying to elude and escape--and that's not the point of those scenes at all, but a background to setting up a romance between Han and Leia, which sets up the end of the film with Lando's betrayal. And of course, that film has the protagonists losing badly at every turn and it mostly involves running away and getting captured. To be honest, these films are very slow dramatic affairs with quite a lot of talky scenes compared to most tentpole movies that come out nowadays!

    I'd love to see a 'tentpole' film these days that tries to be more intimate, personal and focused on dramatic character arcs. Keeping the core cast limited with not an extensive amount of characters (especially not ones meant to sell toys) would be a good start. Action scenes need to be emotional more than cool-looking. Luke's fight against Vader at the end of ESB is the gold standard for a lightsaber fight because the lightsaber aspect is very secondary. The memorable part is really the family revelation. Obi-Wan's ANH showdown with Vader was never even meant to be a 'showdown' at all, but rather a self-sacrifice to spur Luke into starting his journey (and I've seen people complain about how boring it is--they're missing the entire point of the scene). Fight scenes should not be about merely looking cool and if the scene is written merely because the film is thought to need more action, they're doing it wrong.

    This series has a lot to prove to the people who are going to be comparing it to the OT and are going to be hating on anything that reminds them of Jar-Jar. A dramatic interpersonal storyline is going to have to carry the films, first and foremost. Don't get carried away with introducing a million alien species either. The OT worked because it was intimately about a very small core cast and told a personal story rooted in the human psyche.
    Last edited by NileQT87, Jan 8, 2014
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  19. King_Crimson Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2013
    star 1
    In other words.......

    Do the exact opposite of what Lucas did in the prequels.
    Last edited by King_Crimson, Jan 9, 2014
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  20. King_Crimson Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2013
    star 1
    That was beautifully written, Nile. Couldn't have articulated better myself. The only thing I would really add to that, is in regards to the cinematography. Shoot it OLD SCHOOL, like the OT. With an emphasis on quality shot composition, minimal/non-flashy camera movements and angles. Keep it subtle. Use the camera to assist in TELLING THE STORY, not to DISTRACT you from it. That's the biggest thing that concerns me about JJ being at the helm. If he shoots this like he has for his previous films (especially Star Trek) then we're frickin' doomed. We need wide, static, panoramic shots on location (minimal green screen) and beautiful shot composition, lighting, etc. Not rolling dolly shots with dutch angles and shaky cam close ups with the backs of people's heads in the foreground out of focus and all that lazy, modern nonsense. Empire is the gold standard for Star Wars cinematography. JJ should be watching that darn movie over and over again, frame by frame. Burning that into his memory. The visual aesthetic, the performances, the pacing, the mature/introspective tone, the strong narrative that emphasizes character, relationships, and philosophy over mindless action, flash and pizazz.
    Last edited by King_Crimson, Jan 9, 2014
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  21. King_Crimson Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2013
    star 1
    Couldn't disagree more with you. They were shallow, vapid, superficial video game cut scenes to "show off" the advances in cgi. They were dramatically inert. In no way compelling, exciting, or emotionally engaging. Give me the beautifully and meticulously shot, fantastically performed, brilliantly written, dramatic and tense duels of the OT any day over that fluff.
  22. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 3
    they were far from shallow, I call them fast paced, decisive and tense inspired by Hong Kong sword play. I don't know how they utilised video game cut scenes or cgi but whatever yeah
  23. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    Bit harsh. I liked the drama of seeing Anakin embracing his anger in his fight with Dooku, as well as the dialogue. The Anakin vs Obi-Wan clash just needed to be cut by about 30% IMO. Far too long. Also I would've liked to have seen Obi-Wan trying hard to turn Anakin back. Pleading with him even. This would've given Vader's line in RotJ more cred: "Obi-Wan once thought as you did".

    The end of AotC had easily the worst lightsaber fight. Mind you Obi-Wan vs Grievous was pretty bad.
    son_of_skywalker03 likes this.
  24. Visivious Drakarn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2013
    star 2
    I doubt they'll ever make a lightsaber duel better than Obi-Wan's and Anakin's in ROTS. It's not the most important one, but it determined the fates of both heroes and it set up a whole trilogy... OT.
  25. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4