Saga What factor makes a Star Wars film for you?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by anakinfansince1983, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    ...or factors.

    As the title suggests. What is the factor or factor that makes a Star Wars film feel like a Star Wars film?
  2. Martoto77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    I haven't the slightest idea. But I'll have a go.

    Whatever works?

    I guess the movie that came out in '77 enjoyed Lucas's affinity with the pop-culture he'd grown up with and the, for want of a better term, artsy-fartsy sensibilities that he'd acquired at film school.

    Most of the pre-eminent directors at around the time of Lucas's education were European. None of them embodied the pop-culture inspired atristry better than Sergio Leone and his movies. In that mixture you see the reverence for the genre that inspired the director. But that devotion was also used to bludgeon certain sensibilities regarding the genre into newly reborn form.


    What they might try call a reboot, these days. Except instead of whole genres they now use single franchises. And instead of style, the proponents of reboots use conspicuous technique and a sort of gentrification of other elements (violence, casting).

    Part of being able to do that was not accepting that certain things couldn't be done. And not compromising on the stuff that genuinely couldn't be done, for the sake of the story and the rhythms of the movie.

    So perhaps the history and the inspiration of the movies behind it and the 60s/70s attitudes is what really sparked what became the defining appeal of Star Wars. Ironically, I believe that's also the inspiration for some of the pessimistic movies of the same era that Lucas wanted to produce the antithesis of. (and then return to making in private once he'd got all the loot from Star Wars ;))
    Last edited by Martoto77, Sep 12, 2017
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  3. Sarge Chosen One

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    Oct 4, 1998
    star 6
    Far future techno-magic, likeable and relatable characters, and a sense of mythic awe.
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  4. Martoto77 Jedi Master

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    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    That's what I said.
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  5. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

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    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    Real deserts and baby Ewoks! ^:)^

    Seriously, though, I'm not sure there's a set pattern. What I like best about my favorite installments (II and III) is the type of character drama on display, the fantastic world building, painterly visuals, and of course engaging action. Pretty much a perfect balance of the epic and the intimate. Before these two episodes my answer would've been different. I was in it mostly for the heroic action, and all my favorite scenes were inexplicably Star Wars as far as featuring lightsabers, the Force, X-Wings, etc. I never would've guessed that my favorite scene in the series would've turned out to be "Padme's Ruminations," a quiet mood piece where two characters reflect on one another from a distance.

    So who knows. Maybe a new film will eventually be released that again alters my taste and expectations going forward, but as of right now Disney's brand of films has not quite spoken to me as a fan.
  6. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Until something comes along and makes me change my mind, I'll say that the major factor is George Lucas. Anyone can emulate what's already been done and pander the audience, but it's just that: a mere copy. An emulation attempt. But only the person who created this imaginary universe can definitely say what's 'Star Wars' and what isn't, and expand it accordingly.
  7. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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    I'd like to steal this response.
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  8. Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Knight

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    Apr 26, 2016
    star 4
    Lucas wasn't some kind of magician, making the films all by himself.
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  9. Outsourced Jedi Knight

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    Apr 10, 2017
    star 3
    Second.
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  10. Strongbow Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 6, 2014
    star 4
    What I like in my Star Wars movies:

    1) a scrappy group resisting a seemingly overwhelming wave of tyranny. The "Wars" part of Star Wars is important to me.

    2) a romantic (as in literary romance) heroes tale. Challenges, heroic perseverence, dramatic fights, sacrifice, and quest. I love the Arthurian feel of it all.

    3) the texture of different characters.... the corny "hero," the jaded rogue, the scrappy princess, the wise-cracking droids working behind the scenes.

    Put it all together and you have magic.

    FWIW, I think Lucas bottled ligtening in 1977, but forgive me if I say that I'm not sure he ever really understood just what it is he tapped in to. He certainly didn't do it alone, so I think the idea only HE can say what it is pretty disrespectful of the contibutions of other artists, and borders on a cult of personality.
    Last edited by Strongbow, Sep 12, 2017
  11. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    I don't know. I don't know that there are any specific factors. I guess I know it when I see it.


    I'll agree with this as far as saying that George has his own unique style, and that attempts to mimic it (JJ's not the first or last to try) have only made it easier to appreciate the genuine article.

    Maybe only George is capable of making an authentic Star Wars movie.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Sep 12, 2017
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  12. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Who said he made the films all by himself? Cheap strawman there...
  13. Martoto77 Jedi Master

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    George Lucas can't tell you what you consider to be the special factor that defines Star Wars for you.

    He may be the only one who knows something. But it's not what the topic of this thread is.
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  14. Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Knight

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    Apr 26, 2016
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    You implied that by saying that films without Lucas are "mere copies" and "emulation attempts". The teams of people that make the films what they are deserve more respect than that. Some of them have probably been there right from the start, and also passed their knowledge and skills onto the following generation of film workers in each area of movie creation. Without them, Star Wars would not exist as it does today.

    Also to say only Lucas knows what Star Wars really is, is ironic, seeing as he changes his mind about things every 10 seconds.
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  15. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
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    I said that anyone can do what has been done before (which are all Lucas' works). And by doing what's been done before they are mere copies and emulation attempts.

    No, they deserved to be payed for their work (which they have). I give respect to those I deem worthy of it. The team of people who help make the films are following someone's orders. The person in charge, the one making the movie. They are the ones who decide what the movie.

    [IMG]

    He doesn't, and never has, changed his mind on what Star Wars is. Unless you're pretending that the few cosmetic changes he made to some of the movies are what defines Star Wars, which is laughable...

    Who said he could? He can't, but I can. It's him.

    I answered the topic of this thread, and my response is as valid as any other. If you don't like it, that's on you. I didn't force anyone to agree with me. I sure as hell won't change anything just because you don't happen to like it.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Sep 12, 2017
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  16. Outsourced Jedi Knight

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    Apr 10, 2017
    star 3
    Yeah, i'm not too sure about that friend.
  17. darkspine10 Jedi Grand Master

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    star 5
    But, as Alexrd said, those relatively minor changes don't affect the core themes or stories of Star Wars.
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  18. Outsourced Jedi Knight

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    Apr 10, 2017
    star 3
    They change entire scenes, characters, and portrayals. The replacement of multiple voices/actors, removal of award winning effects, and the complete refusal from Lucas to release original copies, going so far as to say they where destroyed, which we know is a lie since a copy was given to the National Film Registry, are all fairly major changes.

    They show a disregard from Lucas towards his movies and their historic significance that I find somewhat appalling.
    Last edited by Outsourced, Sep 12, 2017
  19. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    They are minor cosmetic changes (wether you like them or not, is irrelevant to that fact). The movies, and therefore what Star Wars is, remain the same. He doesn't owe you anything and has every right to tinker with and revisit his work however he sees fit.
  20. Outsourced Jedi Knight

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    Apr 10, 2017
    star 3
    They aren't minor cosmetic changes. Entire scenes are added and removed. The effects are all over the place. Several actors and their performances were straight up replaced.




    It's infuriating, because it's basically impossible for me to find something close to the original releases. They are important cultural landmarks, and an egotist has basically wiped them off the planet.
  21. ewoksimon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2009
    star 4
    Star Wars is an ever evolving confluence of so many different elements, but I realized recently that the one thing that makes it feel mythic to me are the lightsaber duels. Seeing a sword fight in the midst of all this wiz bang technology gives the saga such a sense of history and tradition.
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  22. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    They are.

    Minor scenes/shots.

    Again, minor cosmetic changes.

    Still minor. Still cosmetic.

    I honestly could care less what infuriates you. That's not what the topic is about. And Lucas has every right to change his work however he sees fit. Wether you like it or not is, again, not a factor. Nor should it be.

    No, he changed what's his and has every right to do so. He doesn't owe you anything. Just like you don't own someone else anything by how you paint your own house (or do virtually anything with what's yours).
  23. Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Knight

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    Apr 26, 2016
    star 4
    Luke and Leia's relation doesn't seem to be a minor change to me. Lucas even changed his mind twice over whether there was a sequel story or not.

    @Alexrd Do you think that the people paid to work On Star Wars have no pride in their work? Take costume design for example. Lucas doesn't know anything about how to design and create the famously iconic Star Wars costumes. He had a team of people that did that for him. He would say "Make me an outfit for a Queen" and the team of designers would get to designing hundreds of queen outfits and then Lucas would just choose one. Anyone can do that! The team would then get to making that outfit and after weeks of hard work, Lucas would come in and say "Yeah, that looks good". Anyone can say that! Watch the documentary about designing Grievous, the guys had absolutely nothing from Lucas to start with other than "design a villain" Anyone can ask that!
    Watch the early footage of the ILM guys learning and creating new ways to film special effects. Lucas didn't tell them how to do it, like some kind of god.

    How hilariously bad would Star Wars be if everybody only did exactly what George Lucas said?
    Last edited by Blackhole E Snoke, Sep 12, 2017
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  24. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
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    Who said they don't? What does that got to do with anything? Again, you're addressing something that nobody argued. What's your point?

    That's why he hired and payed people who know to do it. And he requested and approved according to how he envisioned they should be. Just like any other filmmaker who has full creative control over his/her work.

    As hilarious as the six movies currently are. They are what he wants them to be.
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  25. Outsourced Jedi Knight

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    Apr 10, 2017
    star 3
    The point is that Lucas basically steamrolled over the work of large portions of his crew with many of the changes. @Alexrd